Why should Hedman sign a deal based off what stralman is making?
- Feds91Stammer

In my opinion a fair deal for Hedman would be $7m-$7.5m.

Yeah you're right, good call. Go pull Stralman advanced stats like you did Hedman and see that Hedman is that much better.
- Kucherovski

Stralman's points per 60 minutes is 58th in the NHL

His Corsi relative is 25th in the league

Hedman's Corsi relative is 16 compared to Stralman's 8.

Hedman's on-ice goals for is 37 goals, Stralman's is 29

Hedman's primary assists per 60 minutes are .8 compared to Stralman's .1

then there's this guy....



Need anything else bud?

Stralman's points per 60 minutes is 58th in the NHL

His Corsi relative is 25th in the league

Hedman's Corsi relative is 16 compared to Stralman's 8.

Hedman's on-ice goals for is 37 goals, Stralman's is 29

Hedman's primary assists per 60 minutes are .8 compared to Stralman's .1

then there's this guy....



Need anything else bud?
- j.boyd919

I'm not familiar with every single "advanced" stat, which ones are the defensive related ones? Hedman should get more than Stralman because he brings more on the offensive side. My opinions were based on watching them both play every game, I think Stralman would have similar advanced defensive stats if he played with Sustr while Hedman would have worse defensive stats if he played with Sustr. My point was do you tie up $8m-$9m in a D man who is not the best offensive or defensive D man there is. Is that the best choice for the organization. Would someone offer him that much, probably, but is that the best decision for the Lightning. I like Hedman as much as the next guy but I don't like up and down seasons as a season ticket holder. I don't like playoffs then 3rd to worst team then playoffs then stink. I want to be in the discussion every year and giving Hedman that huge contract may be the right answer but may not, that is what I was getting at. Same thing with Stamkos, want him back but not at $11m per year which is what people say he may get in Toronto.

I'm not familiar with every single "advanced" stat, which ones are the defensive related ones? Hedman should get more than Stralman because he brings more on the offensive side. My opinions were based on watching them both play every game, I think Stralman would have similar advanced defensive stats if he played with Sustr while Hedman would have worse defensive stats if he played with Sustr. My point was do you tie up $8m-$9m in a D man who is not the best offensive or defensive D man there is. Is that the best choice for the organization. Would someone offer him that much, probably, but is that the best decision for the Lightning. I like Hedman as much as the next guy but I don't like up and down seasons as a season ticket holder. I don't like playoffs then 3rd to worst team then playoffs then stink. I want to be in the discussion every year and giving Hedman that huge contract may be the right answer but may not, that is what I was getting at. Same thing with Stamkos, want him back but not at $11m per year which is what people say he may get in Toronto.
- Kucherovski

My opinions are based on watching them both play every single game and using advanced stats to interpret and evaluate what I see on the ice.

EDIT: That is comical that you believe Stralman would have similar stats with Sustr, and Hedman worse with Sustr. I can see we are finished here. If you want to be in the discussion of being in the playoffs every year, you pay elite talent the money they deserve. Adios amigo.

I'm not familiar with every single "advanced" stat, which ones are the defensive related ones? Hedman should get more than Stralman because he brings more on the offensive side. My opinions were based on watching them both play every game, I think Stralman would have similar advanced defensive stats if he played with Sustr while Hedman would have worse defensive stats if he played with Sustr. My point was do you tie up $8m-$9m in a D man who is not the best offensive or defensive D man there is. Is that the best choice for the organization. Would someone offer him that much, probably, but is that the best decision for the Lightning. I like Hedman as much as the next guy but I don't like up and down seasons as a season ticket holder. I don't like playoffs then 3rd to worst team then playoffs then stink. I want to be in the discussion every year and giving Hedman that huge contract may be the right answer but may not, that is what I was getting at. Same thing with Stamkos, want him back but not at $11m per year which is what people say he may get in Toronto.
- Kucherovski

You got owned.

Back to the drawing board you go.

My opinions are based on watching them both play every single game and using advanced stats to interpret and evaluate what I see on the ice.
- j.boyd919

That's fine, what advanced stats show the defensive strength? Points per 60, assist per 60 that is all offensive, I'm curious about the defensive stats too.

You got owned.

Back to the drawing board you go.
- Feds91Stammer

So owned, the stats show Hedman is twice the D man as Stralman. I got so owned!!

That's fine, what advanced stats show the defensive strength? Points per 60, assist per 60 that is all offensive, I'm curious about the defensive stats too.
- Kucherovski

Let me guess you value things like hits and blocked shots?

Is he worth about double that of Stalman? I like the game Stralman plays, he skates well, shoots well and makes a great first pass so why would Hedman get double what Stralman gets? Hedman will get his pay day, I only question how much of a pay day he should get for the long term health of the franchise.
- Kucherovski

Stralman's contract is a relative bargain. If he were to hit the market today with how he has played for Tampa (vs his limited opportunities previously) he would get more than he got.

Also, Stralman is not Hedman and Hedman is not Stralman. All of your points regarding Stralman are accurate, however what Stralman doesn't do Hedman does. Push offensive play, puck carrier, dangerous player offensively. Only reason Stralman is on PP1 unit is he is the only decent RH shot we have to play point as a feeder to Stammer's one-timer. If Hedman were RH he would be in that slot. Either way, my point is you can't compare 2 players based on salary when those 2 players are not the same. Hedman>Stralman 7 days a week and twice on Sunday, and that's not a slight against Stralman rather a complement to Hedman

That's fine, what advanced stats show the defensive strength? Points per 60, assist per 60 that is all offensive, I'm curious about the defensive stats too.
- Kucherovski

Someone without knowledge of advanced statistics could see them as offensive stats, but those statistics say more than "offense." Those stats show the ability to generate shots, which lead to goals, which you have to have more of than the other team to win the game. They also show the ability to suppress shots (ya know.. defense), meaning that the puck is not being shot at your goalie (again, defense).

Hedman has 86 Blocked shots compared to Stralman's 49

Heddy with 28 takeaways compared to Stralman's 21

Heddy averages a 1:00 more even strength TOI and :04 less avg SH TOI

He draws .33 penalties per 60 as opposed to Stralmans .11

I'm running out of stats to feed ya buddy.

Stralman was an absolute steal! There's no way you could sign someone like Stralman for that low EVER again!
- Artyukhin76

Only reason Stralman signed for as low as he did was his "limited" track record leading up to free agency. His last year with the Rags he was arguably their best dman, before that he bounced around a bit b/c he couldn't get a lineup spot wherever he was. Fast forward to today and Stralman gets a huge bump in AAV and probably more term also

Someone without knowledge of advanced statistics could see them as offensive stats, but those statistics say more than "offense." Those stats show the ability to generate shots, which lead to goals, which you have to have more of than the other team to win the game. They also show the ability to suppress shots (ya know.. defense), meaning that the puck is not being shot at your goalie (again, defense).

Hedman has 86 Blocked shots compared to Stralman's 49

Heddy with 28 takeaways compared to Stralman's 21

Heddy averages a 1:00 more even strength TOI and :04 less avg SH TOI

He draws .33 penalties per 60 as opposed to Stralmans .11

I'm running out of stats to feed ya buddy.
- j.boyd919

I'm not familiar with every single "advanced" stat, which ones are the defensive related ones? Hedman should get more than Stralman because he brings more on the offensive side. My opinions were based on watching them both play every game, I think Stralman would have similar advanced defensive stats if he played with Sustr while Hedman would have worse defensive stats if he played with Sustr. My point was do you tie up $8m-$9m in a D man who is not the best offensive or defensive D man there is. Is that the best choice for the organization. Would someone offer him that much, probably, but is that the best decision for the Lightning. I like Hedman as much as the next guy but I don't like up and down seasons as a season ticket holder. I don't like playoffs then 3rd to worst team then playoffs then stink. I want to be in the discussion every year and giving Hedman that huge contract may be the right answer but may not, that is what I was getting at. Same thing with Stamkos, want him back but not at $11m per year which is what people say he may get in Toronto.
- Kucherovski

Couple of points...

Sustr has been one of our most improved players this year

We rarely play the same d-man combinations throughout an entire game. Cooper will mix and match based on home/away, opponent line combos, sheltering certain players, and other factors. One shift Hedman and Stralman will play against the opponents' best line, the next shift Hedman will be out with a Nesterov, and the next after that Stralman will get a turn with a Nesterov. Point being Hedman and Stralman's stats are made through playing with a multitude of dman partners, not one single partner where your Sustr hypothesis would have some validity.

Either way, the simple eye test says Hedman is a clear top 5 dman in the league and by far our best dman. Replacing him would be near impossible and no Koekkoek or DeAngelo is going to change that b/c neither of them are the same type player and even more importantly neither of them has the ability to do what Hedman does.

Only reason Stralman signed for as low as he did was his "limited" track record leading up to free agency. His last year with the Rags he was arguably their best dman, before that he bounced around a bit b/c he couldn't get a lineup spot wherever he was. Fast forward to today and Stralman gets a huge bump in AAV and probably more term also
- uf1910

He'd be any easy $6m now, if not more. As I said.... A. Steal.

Couple of points...

Sustr has been one of our most improved players this year

We rarely play the same d-man combinations throughout an entire game. Cooper will mix and match based on home/away, opponent line combos, sheltering certain players, and other factors. One shift Hedman and Stralman will play against the opponents' best line, the next shift Hedman will be out with a Nesterov, and the next after that Stralman will get a turn with a Nesterov. Point being Hedman and Stralman's stats are made through playing with a multitude of dman partners, not one single partner where your Sustr hypothesis would have some validity.

Either way, the simple eye test says Hedman is a clear top 5 dman in the league and by far our best dman. Replacing him would be near impossible and no Koekkoek or DeAngelo is going to change that b/c neither of them are the same type player and even more importantly neither of them has the ability to do what Hedman does.
- uf1910

False. Hedman and Stralman have played together 70% of the time, the other 30% of the time can be attributed to their PP minutes.

Couple of points...

Sustr has been one of our most improved players this year

We rarely play the same d-man combinations throughout an entire game. Cooper will mix and match based on home/away, opponent line combos, sheltering certain players, and other factors. One shift Hedman and Stralman will play against the opponents' best line, the next shift Hedman will be out with a Nesterov, and the next after that Stralman will get a turn with a Nesterov. Point being Hedman and Stralman's stats are made through playing with a multitude of dman partners, not one single partner where your Sustr hypothesis would have some validity.

Either way, the simple eye test says Hedman is a clear top 5 dman in the league and by far our best dman. Replacing him would be near impossible and no Koekkoek or DeAngelo is going to change that b/c neither of them are the same type player and even more importantly neither of them has the ability to do what Hedman does.
- uf1910

Sustr had NOWHERE to go but up. Any lower and and he'd play for Toronto.

Couple of points...

Sustr has been one of our most improved players this year

We rarely play the same d-man combinations throughout an entire game. Cooper will mix and match based on home/away, opponent line combos, sheltering certain players, and other factors. One shift Hedman and Stralman will play against the opponents' best line, the next shift Hedman will be out with a Nesterov, and the next after that Stralman will get a turn with a Nesterov. Point being Hedman and Stralman's stats are made through playing with a multitude of dman partners, not one single partner where your Sustr hypothesis would have some validity.

Either way, the simple eye test says Hedman is a clear top 5 dman in the league and by far our best dman. Replacing him would be near impossible and no Koekkoek or DeAngelo is going to change that b/c neither of them are the same type player and even more importantly neither of them has the ability to do what Hedman does.
- uf1910

Hedman is the Bolts top D man for sure, in my opinion he is not a top 5 all around D man in the league today but he is trending that way. Will he get there, don't see why not. Just want a team that makes it deep into the playoffs every year, is that too much to ask?! Spend what is needed to get that done, they are raising ticket prices so they are getting money.

False. Hedman and Stralman have played together 70% of the time, the other 30% of the time can be attributed to their PP minutes.
- j.boyd919

I would have expected the % to be lower (would have guessed between 50-60%), but Cooper does mix and match more than other coaches/teams do. Stralman/Hedman are definitely the go-to pair for opponents "best" lines, but especially on the road where we don't get last change he will split them more to shelter our bottom pair guys. Really depends on opponent and situation. Late in the 3rd they will be consistently used together whereas early on he will do a little more matching. Also depends on whether we play 6 or 7 D

Sustr had NOWHERE to go but up. Any lower and and he'd play for Toronto.
- Artyukhin76

Why am I not surprised you would roll with a comment like this. Like I said before...patience bro. There were many years alot of people were calling for Hedman's head

Why am I not surprised you would roll with a comment like this. Like I said before...patience bro. There were many years alot of people were calling for Hedman's head
- uf1910

When?!!

Hedman is the Bolts top D man for sure, in my opinion he is not a top 5 all around D man in the league today but he is trending that way. Will he get there, don't see why not. Just want a team that makes it deep into the playoffs every year, is that too much to ask?! Spend what is needed to get that done, they are raising ticket prices so they are getting money.
- Kucherovski

In no particular order Karlsson, Subban, Keith, Doughty, Hedman as my top 5

Next 5+ includes Pietro, Gio, McDonagh, Seabrook, Suter, Boychuk, OEL

EDIT: Have to put Letang in 5-10+ somewhere

I'm sure I left one or more off this list and any top 10 type list is subjective to the lister but I have a real hard time trying to put any of those 5-10 above Hedman

When?!!
- mlindsay

Early on in is career, and to be fair he had more than a few dumpster fire moments that many focused on. All I kept say is he's 18, he's 19, he's 20...it's coming.

Now he's a (frank)ing monster who if I had to build a team today from scratch honestly might be my 1st choice. Sure there's some homer in a statement like that but honey badger don't care and neither do I

I would have expected the % to be lower (would have guessed between 50-60%), but Cooper does mix and match more than other coaches/teams do. Stralman/Hedman are definitely the go-to pair for opponents "best" lines, but especially on the road where we don't get last change he will split them more to shelter our bottom pair guys. Really depends on opponent and situation. Late in the 3rd they will be consistently used together whereas early on he will do a little more matching. Also depends on whether we play 6 or 7 D
- uf1910

I will again say false.

Hedman's D pairing %toi

Stralman: 70%
Sustr: 9%
Garrison: 6%
Nesterov: 5%
Coburn: 5%
Carle: 2%

Those are not the numbers of a coach that consistently mixes and matches more than other coaches. I will agree that he mixes his forward combinations quite often, but his D combos are pretty much set in stone, and if they ever switch it's more attributed to trapped line changes/icings that do not permit line changes, PP time. If Hedman is jumping off the bench to play, he's coming with Stralman, not anyone else.

When?!!
- mlindsay

A lot of people in Tampa were disappointed with him early on in his career. Thought he was gonna be a bust.

Early on in is career, and to be fair he had more than a few dumpster fire moments that many focused on. All I kept say is he's 18, he's 19, he's 20...it's coming.

Now he's a (frank)ing monster who if I had to build a team today from scratch honestly might be my 1st choice. Sure there's some homer in a statement like that but honey badger don't care and neither do I
- uf1910

If it weren't for Karlsson, I'd say Hedman would probably be my first choice too.