Needs to spread money out to compete? All teams are working under the same cap. Do you even logic bro?
- Feds91Stammer

I don't even understand what that means to be honest. Do I logic, yes you need 4 lines to win in the NHL. Are the teams working under the same cap, yes they are but again you need depth. The bad teams have bad depth, not in their organization but on the 3rd and 4th lines. Seems pretty logical to me. Can't give Stamkos $10m per year for 8 years then throw $9m per year for 8 years at Hedman and expect to win year in and year out, seems like good logic to me.

I agree with this but I think for the Lightning it is a matter of how much. Do we pay Hedman over $8m per year (Subban) or $7m (Doughty)? I don't want to keep Hedman for that kind of coin, he plays soft. He is huge and can skate but he hardly puts his body on anyone plus he has had multiple concussions in his NHL career so far. Kucherov I think is fantastic, I think the Johnson contract is going to hurt the Kucherov negotiations, he sees Johnson getting $3m per year and will want at least double that.
- Kucherovski

You dont need to be a brute to play in the NHL anymore. I agree with you on JOhnson, I think he goes if Stammer signs. Namestnikov would be a great 2C. But Hedman is a must keep. Hes a complete defenseman. Whatever happens with Stamkos, the priorities should be Hedman, Kucherov, Palat. In that order.

Yes, do we have two forwards like Toews and Kane? Do we have a Duncan Keith at $5.5m per year? No we have a Matt Carle. Do we have a Seabrook at just under $7m per year? We need to spread out the money to sign Stamkos, Kucherov, Palat, goalie. Look at Pittsburgh, lots of money spent on Malkin, Sid, Kessel and Letang and not a lot left for 3rd and 4th line plus 5th and 6th D man. You need depth and to get decent, NHL depth you need money. We can throw money at Hedman and Stamkos and Kucherov then try to piece together the rest of the team year in and year out or they can be smart and keep guys around at reasonable cap hits to keep what has been their strength, their depth.
- Kucherovski

That's where your prospect pipeline comes in. bring in AHL-developed prospect in for a low cost to go along your core of Stamkos/Kucherov/Palat/Hedman.

I don't even understand what that means to be honest. Do I logic, yes you need 4 lines to win in the NHL. Are the teams working under the same cap, yes they are but again you need depth. The bad teams have bad depth, not in their organization but on the 3rd and 4th lines. Seems pretty logical to me. Can't give Stamkos $10m per year for 8 years then throw $9m per year for 8 years at Hedman and expect to win year in and year out, seems like good logic to me.
- Kucherovski

Chicago does it everyyear. They lose a guy like Saad, and bring in Panarin. Carle will be gone in a Drouin deal, I think. Coburn is gone next season. Money will be freed up. Space will be made for our prospect to play 3rd/4th line.

That's where your prospect pipeline comes in. bring in AHL-developed prospect in for a low cost to go along your core of Stamkos/Kucherov/Palat/Hedman.
- TBolts4

I don't disagree but there is always the chance the prospects do not pan out to be good (Drouin). My post said you need NHL depth, a prospect is not NHL depth. If you spend all your money on 4 guys and need to bring up prospects there are going to be bumps in the road until they are NHL guys, if they become NHL guys. You need 3rd and 4th line NHL guys while you wait for those prospects. Koekkoek has had shoulder issues in his career, he is supposed to be in the wings for top 4 duty. I don't think they want to go through those pains of getting the prospects up to speed and have a bad year followed by good year, they want to keep this train rolling and compete year in and year out. In my mind you can't do that if you're 3rd and 4th line is 75% prospects.

As far as Hedman goes, I love Hedman. When they started with the jerseys for season ticket holders I got Hedman that very first year which may have been his first or second year in the league. I just think he plays soft for how big he is. No you do not need a guy who can just bury people but you need a guy who can go hard into the corners, a guy who can wear down the other teams best players like Chara used to do against Kessel, Crosby etc. Hedman is hard to play against because of his IQ, reach and speed but it is not like there are teams with forwards who are not as fast. I look at Doughty as the measuring stick, would I rather a Doughty for $7m or a Hedman for $9m? If you give Hedman $6m - $7m I can understand that, that is a $2m-$3m raise but if you start getting into the highest paid defenseman category I don't think it is the right move for the organization long term, just like I don't think giving Stamkos over $10m for 8 years is the right move.

That's where your prospect pipeline comes in. bring in AHL-developed prospect in for a low cost to go along your core of Stamkos/Kucherov/Palat/Hedman.
- TBolts4

that does not matter at all per Toronto fans
- todd1a

absolutely right, it doesn't...stammer can make 25 mil in Toronto with all the endorsements he will get. At that point taxes dont matter

I don't disagree but there is always the chance the prospects do not pan out to be good (Drouin). My post said you need NHL depth, a prospect is not NHL depth. If you spend all your money on 4 guys and need to bring up prospects there are going to be bumps in the road until they are NHL guys, if they become NHL guys. You need 3rd and 4th line NHL guys while you wait for those prospects. Koekkoek has had shoulder issues in his career, he is supposed to be in the wings for top 4 duty. I don't think they want to go through those pains of getting the prospects up to speed and have a bad year followed by good year, they want to keep this train rolling and compete year in and year out. In my mind you can't do that if you're 3rd and 4th line is 75% prospects.

As far as Hedman goes, I love Hedman. When they started with the jerseys for season ticket holders I got Hedman that very first year which may have been his first or second year in the league. I just think he plays soft for how big he is. No you do not need a guy who can just bury people but you need a guy who can go hard into the corners, a guy who can wear down the other teams best players like Chara used to do against Kessel, Crosby etc. Hedman is hard to play against because of his IQ, reach and speed but it is not like there are teams with forwards who are not as fast. I look at Doughty as the measuring stick, would I rather a Doughty for $7m or a Hedman for $9m? If you give Hedman $6m - $7m I can understand that, that is a $2m-$3m raise but if you start getting into the highest paid defenseman category I don't think it is the right move for the organization long term, just like I don't think giving Stamkos over $10m for 8 years is the right move.
- Kucherovski

You forget that salaries go up every year. Would Doughty be a free agent next summer, he would most likely get closer to 10 mil a year than the 7 he's getting now. Im not saying put 3rd and 4th line full of prospect, thats why you have guys like JT Brown and Cedric Paquette. These guys will never make 5 mil a year. But they are very serviceable 3/4th liners. Bring in one or 2 prospect at a time as you get rid of more expensive veterans, like Coburn and Filpulla. Next year, Koekoek will get a chance with the departure of Coburn. The following year, it might be Erne taking Filpulla's spot in the top 9. Then the year after that here comes another one. That way, you can always give your prospect time to properly develop in the AHL. Drouin has incredible talent, but he wasn't properly developed. Mostly because he was drafted by a team that was already stocked up front and he couldnt get the ice time he needed. You dont think he would thrive in Arizona?? This is the new NHL. prospect developped and are gradually inserted in NHL rosters to go with a 4-5 players strong core. Its the Detroit model, the same Chicago is using right now.

You forget that salaries go up every year. Would Doughty be a free agent next summer, he would most likely get closer to 10 mil a year than the 7 he's getting now. Im not saying put 3rd and 4th line full of prospect, thats why you have guys like JT Brown and Cedric Paquette. These guys will never make 5 mil a year. But they are very serviceable 3/4th liners. Bring in one or 2 prospect at a time as you get rid of more expensive veterans, like Coburn and Filpulla. Next year, Koekoek will get a chance with the departure of Coburn. The following year, it might be Erne taking Filpulla's spot in the top 9. Then the year after that here comes another one. That way, you can always give your prospect time to properly develop in the AHL. Drouin has incredible talent, but he wasn't properly developed. Mostly because he was drafted by a team that was already stocked up front and he couldnt get the ice time he needed. You dont think he would thrive in Arizona?? This is the new NHL. prospect developped and are gradually inserted in NHL rosters to go with a 4-5 players strong core. Its the Detroit model, the same Chicago is using right now.
- TBolts4

No I do agree and if the cap goes up $2.5m next year and another $2.5m the following year the Bolts get an extra $5m to play with. Should Hedman be the highest paid defenseman? Probably not, not yet. I don't know how Yzerman thinks or how far they have to look but I wonder if there is concern about the next CBA. If Stammer and Hedman get huge money for long terms is there concern about the next CBA and would the Lightning maybe be back in the Vinny, Richards, Boyle spot where too much money tied up in a few players. I just think Hedman is not worth being paid as the #1 D man in the entire NHL at this point.

No I do agree and if the cap goes up $2.5m next year and another $2.5m the following year the Bolts get an extra $5m to play with. Should Hedman be the highest paid defenseman? Probably not, not yet. I don't know how Yzerman thinks or how far they have to look but I wonder if there is concern about the next CBA. If Stammer and Hedman get huge money for long terms is there concern about the next CBA and would the Lightning maybe be back in the Vinny, Richards, Boyle spot where too much money tied up in a few players. I just think Hedman is not worth being paid as the #1 D man in the entire NHL at this point.
- Kucherovski

I dont think Hedman has done anything to grant him best paid defenseman in the league. He hasn't won the Norris (dont think he has ever been nominated for it either) nor does he lead the league in any stats for dman. Is he a great defenseman? He's a very good one but I'dd like to know what basis he would have to ask for that much? I think he'll be offered 7-8 mil a year at the most.

I dont think Hedman has done anything to grant him best paid defenseman in the league. He hasn't won the Norris (dont think he has ever been nominated for it either) nor does he lead the league in any stats for dman. Is he a great defenseman? He's a very good one but I'dd like to know what basis he would have to ask for that much? I think he'll be offered 7-8 mil a year at the most.
- TBolts4

$8m doubles his cap hit now and is more than Shea Weber, #2 in the NHL behind PK Subban. I don't envy Yzerman because should he make Hedman the 2nd highest paid defenseman in the NHL, probably not but someone like Edmonton or Carolina would make him the 2nd highest paid NHL defenseman so Yzerman will have to do it if he wants to keep him.

$8m doubles his cap hit now and is more than Shea Weber, #2 in the NHL behind PK Subban. I don't envy Yzerman because should he make Hedman the 2nd highest paid defenseman in the NHL, probably not but someone like Edmonton or Carolina would make him the 2nd highest paid NHL defenseman so Yzerman will have to do it if he wants to keep him.
- Kucherovski

Theoretically speaking if you give Stamkos 10m Hedman 8m and Kucherov 6m and the cap goes up to 80m in 2 years they only make up 30% of the cap and leaves you with an average of 2.8m left for the other 20 guys. You keep your elite pieces and figure out the smaller pieces later.

Theoretically speaking if you give Stamkos 10m Hedman 8m and Kucherov 6m and the cap goes up to 80m in 2 years they only make up 30% of the cap and leaves you with an average of 2.8m left for the other 20 guys. You keep your elite pieces and figure out the smaller pieces later.
- Feds91Stammer

I hear ya, is 30% of the cap tied up in 3 guys the smart play I guess I wonder. You know to compete you will need a goalie at $5m - $6m, minimum so a $6m goalie puts you at 37.5% of the cap with 4 guys. I also think the Barkov deal means Kucherov gets more than $6m per year since Kucherov has out produced Barkov so far in their careers. Say Kucherov goes up to $7m per year now they are at almost 39% of the cap tied up in 4 guys which leaves you $2.8m per guy (17 guys). If salaries are on the rise that would mean the second line guys like Palat are getting $5m per year which would mean your 3rd and 4th line has to be made up of guys right around $1m. I don't think we can compete on a consistent basis with a bunch of $750k guys on the 3rd line, more importantly in the 5th and 6th D spot.

I hear ya, is 30% of the cap tied up in 3 guys the smart play I guess I wonder. You know to compete you will need a goalie at $5m - $6m, minimum so a $6m goalie puts you at 37.5% of the cap with 4 guys. I also think the Barkov deal means Kucherov gets more than $6m per year since Kucherov has out produced Barkov so far in their careers. Say Kucherov goes up to $7m per year now they are at almost 39% of the cap tied up in 4 guys which leaves you $2.8m per guy (17 guys). If salaries are on the rise that would mean the second line guys like Palat are getting $5m per year which would mean your 3rd and 4th line has to be made up of guys right around $1m. I don't think we can compete on a consistent basis with a bunch of $750k guys on the 3rd line, more importantly in the 5th and 6th D spot.
- Kucherovski

So don't sign the elite pieces you already have?

So don't sign the elite pieces you already have?
- Feds91Stammer

No of course not but there has to be a limit on what you pay "elite" players in my mind. I was only commenting because someone said give Hedman whatever it takes to keep him and I think that is the wrong approach to anyone on the Lightning. What has made them a success is their depth and going forward that is what will make them a success.

No of course not but there has to be a limit on what you pay "elite" players in my mind. I was only commenting because someone said give Hedman whatever it takes to keep him and I think that is the wrong approach to anyone on the Lightning. What has made them a success is their depth and going forward that is what will make them a success.
- Kucherovski

I said give him whatever it takes because I remember the seasons that led us to Stamkos and Hedman. I prefer slight overpayment to the alternative.

I said give him whatever it takes because I remember the seasons that led us to Stamkos and Hedman. I prefer slight overpayment to the alternative.
- Feds91Stammer

Hmmm, after Stamkos and Hedman they finished 3rd worst in the NHL which is what got them Drouin. They had huge contracts in Ohlund, Vinny, Marty and as you saw they had to buy out Vinny because they had too much money tied up. You pay Hedman, you don't make Hedman the highest paid NHL defenseman for 8 years though in my opinion.

Hmmm, after Stamkos and Hedman they finished 3rd worst in the NHL which is what got them Drouin. They had huge contracts in Ohlund, Vinny, Marty and as you saw they had to buy out Vinny because they had too much money tied up. You pay Hedman, you don't make Hedman the highest paid NHL defenseman for 8 years though in my opinion.
- Kucherovski

That is exactly what you do, because he is a top 3 defenseman in the NHL IMO.

I hear ya, is 30% of the cap tied up in 3 guys the smart play I guess I wonder. You know to compete you will need a goalie at $5m - $6m, minimum so a $6m goalie puts you at 37.5% of the cap with 4 guys. I also think the Barkov deal means Kucherov gets more than $6m per year since Kucherov has out produced Barkov so far in their careers. Say Kucherov goes up to $7m per year now they are at almost 39% of the cap tied up in 4 guys which leaves you $2.8m per guy (17 guys). If salaries are on the rise that would mean the second line guys like Palat are getting $5m per year which would mean your 3rd and 4th line has to be made up of guys right around $1m. I don't think we can compete on a consistent basis with a bunch of $750k guys on the 3rd line, more importantly in the 5th and 6th D spot.
- Kucherovski

That's where all of the cycling of new players drafted come in (IE:Chicago) Out with the old and rising, and in with the new. Erne, Point, Deangelo, Vasi, Stephens, Koekoek.. those guys are going to replace the guys like Killorn, Callahan, Fillpula, Garrison, Carle, but you need to hold on to the elite players ya got (Stammer, Hedman, Palat, Kucherov, Stralman, in my opinion should be the guys they build around.) I think Johnson is expendable... personally I'd like to see Killorn stick with the Lightning but with Callahan's albatross contract, I don't think he'll stick around.

That is exactly what you do, because he is a top 3 defenseman in the NHL IMO.
- j.boyd919

Interesting, offensively he obviously isn't but that is not what the Lightning need solid defense for, that is what Stammer and Kucherov are for. So you feel Hedman is, at this minute, better than which 4 of the follow: Doughty, Giordano, Weber, Suter, Pietrangelo, OEL, Josi?

Interesting, offensively he obviously isn't but that is not what the Lightning need solid defense for, that is what Stammer and Kucherov are for. So you feel Hedman is, at this minute, better than which 4 of the follow: Doughty, Giordano, Weber, Suter, Pietrangelo, OEL, Josi?
- Kucherovski

I think that Hedman is better than Josi, Suter, Weber, and Pietrangelo.

His Points per 60 minutes of icetime is 5th behind Karlsson, Klingberg, Giordano, and Yandle at 1.35.

His on ice Corsi for is 4th behind Jamie McBane, HHampus Lindholm, and Drew Doughty at 15.28

His Corsi relative is 3rd behind Karlsson and Ekblad at 16.3.

He leads the Lightning in assists.

2nd on the bolts with a 56.4 CF% with players over 30 games.

3rd on the team with a +9, 3rd on the team with 28 points.

As much as the offense ends with Stammer and Kuch, it begins in the defensive zone with Heddy. I think losing Hedman over Stamkos would be more detrimental to the Lightning than losing Stamkos over Hedman. (But I do think they should do whatever they have to do to keep both of them.)

I think that Hedman is better than Josi, Suter, Weber, and Pietrangelo.

His Points per 60 minutes of icetime is 5th behind Karlsson, Klingberg, Giordano, and Yandle at 1.35.

His on ice Corsi for is 4th behind Jamie McBane, HHampus Lindholm, and Drew Doughty at 15.28

His Corsi relative is 3rd behind Karlsson and Ekblad at 16.3.

He leads the Lightning in assists.

2nd on the bolts with a 56.4 CF% with players over 30 games.

3rd on the team with a +9, 3rd on the team with 28 points.

As much as the offense ends with Stammer and Kuch, it begins in the defensive zone with Heddy. I think losing Hedman over Stamkos would be more detrimental to the Lightning than losing Stamkos over Hedman. (But I do think they should do whatever they have to do to keep both of them.)
- j.boyd919

Interesting, a lot of that was offense related stats. I do think Weber and Suter are better shut down defenseman compared to Hedman while Pietrangelo is about equal to him. Of course the offense starts with the defense, have to make a great first pass, know when to jump into the play and not jump into the play, etc. but I also think the Lightning have more top prospects on D then they do up front, especially a prospect in the same world as Stamkos. DeAngelo and Koekkoek could be as good as Hedman, nobody we have in the AHL will put up 50 or even 40 goals in my opinion. I want them both back, I want them both back at a reasonable cap hit because I want to go to the finals games at Amalie every year! Selfish, yes

Interesting, a lot of that was offense related stats. I do think Weber and Suter are better shut down defenseman compared to Hedman while Pietrangelo is about equal to him. Of course the offense starts with the defense, have to make a great first pass, know when to jump into the play and not jump into the play, etc. but I also think the Lightning have more top prospects on D then they do up front, especially a prospect in the same world as Stamkos. DeAngelo and Koekkoek could be as good as Hedman, nobody we have in the AHL will put up 50 or even 40 goals in my opinion. I want them both back, I want them both back at a reasonable cap hit because I want to go to the finals games at Amalie every year! Selfish, yes
- Kucherovski

Best way to be a shutdown defenseman is to play in the offensive zone. And no, I highly doubt Koekoek and DeAngelo will be anywhere near Hedman's level. Stamkos = Elite forward, Hedman = Elite defenseman.

I think that Hedman is better than Josi, Suter, Weber, and Pietrangelo.

His Points per 60 minutes of icetime is 5th behind Karlsson, Klingberg, Giordano, and Yandle at 1.35.

His on ice Corsi for is 4th behind Jamie McBane, HHampus Lindholm, and Drew Doughty at 15.28

His Corsi relative is 3rd behind Karlsson and Ekblad at 16.3.

He leads the Lightning in assists.

2nd on the bolts with a 56.4 CF% with players over 30 games.

3rd on the team with a +9, 3rd on the team with 28 points.

As much as the offense ends with Stammer and Kuch, it begins in the defensive zone with Heddy. I think losing Hedman over Stamkos would be more detrimental to the Lightning than losing Stamkos over Hedman. (But I do think they should do whatever they have to do to keep both of them.)
- j.boyd919

Boom *drops mic*

Gotta step up and pay the big $$ to the star players. GM already getting the reputation of pissing off players (St Louis, Drouin, Stamkos). Not gonna make it any easier to bring in new FA or try and get discounted prices on contracts.