I've never been one who fully understood analytics or fancy stats, but even I know it shouldn't be hard to replace 9 goals after 50 some odd games.

Hexy just seems to want another good draft pick with no urgency to amp up the scoring or defense
- vejim

if that's the case, then i'd say we'd see a soft tank going on, but i don't see that. hexy wants to win, but he wants to do it the right way for the betterment of the team long term. it's a difficult spot to be in, especially within the history of the flyers' approach. i think he's doing a great job. we just need to be patient. i really believe it will pay off.

If Coots misses more than another game or 2, chances of playoffs go from slim to none. You just can't win consistently in this league with only one quality center
- BiggE

it's a problem.

If Couturier is out for the next week, they can likely kiss the playoffs good bye.

He not only gives them a quality second center, he does so much else that he's next to irreplaceable. He's the shut down line cornerstone. He's been providing offense. He's their best penalty killing forward. He frees the Giroux line to be an offensive force by taking hard matchups. He forces other teams to worry about more than Giroux's line.

Even with him, they're a bubble team. Without him, they're simply not going to win much

Gagner took Coots's spot at practice. Again.




- Mononoke

What time is couturiers flight to Tampa?

Hexy just seems to want another good draft pick with no urgency to amp up the scoring or defense
- vejim

I think he would be happy if they won and made the playoffs but they're going to have to do it with what they have. He won't be buying at the deadline. In fact I still think they should be sellers and it would be great to pick up another first rounder. This is another strong draft and they already have a lot of draft picks but the way Hexy has been drafting the more the merrier.

Hard to argue with Bill that the bottom six is a problem with this team. They definitely need upgrades and it will be interesting to see who comes up form the AHL/CHL next year. Konecny, Provorov and Cousins should probably make the team. Weal is an interesting prospect as well. Laughton, Konecny, Read as a third line. Cousins centering Weal and one of the current guys, probably VV can't be worse than what they are icing now.

At some point, Hakstol has to understand the difference between trying not to let a guy hurt you who's done, to giving a player a player a chance who might help you

It's a subtle difference. It might not work. But what have you lost? You can always go back to Umberger. You don't have to play Weal or anyone else forever. But we are well past the point where a coach should have looked at Umberger's game and just said you can't do it anymore at this level and given someone else a chance
- AllInForFlyers

You'd think that after being a head coach in the NCAA for over a deacade, who was very successful, enough to be hired as an NHL coach, that Hakstol would understand a simple concept that the fans know!

I think coaches have more information that the fans do, in terms of the players. If he's not playing Weal, I'm sure he has his reasons. I'd like to see Weal in the lineup also, because as a fan, I'm operating from the perspective of why not. Hakstol is not, and is operating on far more information than what a fan has.

I've never been one who fully understood analytics or fancy stats, but even I know it shouldn't be hard to replace 9 goals after 50 some odd games.
- Pelle31Forever

Didn't the Pittsburgh game show that the loss of Couturier is about far more than goals?

What time is couturiers flight to Tampa?
- funmaster18

There are certain things you just don't joke about. Trading Coots is one.

fun time's over. thread was good while it lasted.

The Flyers are one of the best defensive teams in hockey at 5 on 5 play. While the teams bottom 6 don't carry play on a regular basis, and certainly don't provide enough or any offense at 5 on 5 play, they are good defensively as a whole. When you have a team that struggles to score, and you introduce offensive players who don't score, and wind up being a downgrade defensively, that could wind up hurting the team. Until they can upgrade the personnel in the future, the Flyers are a team that is going to rely on a few players, and the PP for offense. Hopefully Couturier can get back and the 2nd line can continue to help offensively.

Didn't the Pittsburgh game show that the loss of Couturier is about far more than goals?
- MJL

they probably win that game with him in the lineup. at the very least, it probably goes into extra time.

There are certain things you just don't joke about. Trading Coots is one.
- Mononoke

coots for drouin? sure why not

they probably win that game with him in the lineup. at the very least, it probably goes into extra time.
- stayinthefnnet

I can't predict if the Flyers would've won or not, but for dam sure the matchups would have been better, and Couturier would've helped slow down Crosby or Malkin, whichever he was matched up against.

if that's the case, then i'd say we'd see a soft tank going on, but i don't see that. hexy wants to win, but he wants to do it the right way for the betterment of the team long term. it's a difficult spot to be in, especially within the history of the flyers' approach. i think he's doing a great job. we just need to be patient. i really believe it will pay off.
- hammarby31

I think if he could pick up a 3rd liner with size who can skate, he should consider it strongly. More likely see something like this over the summer. I know they shouldn't probably be in the buying vets at the TDL but they really are a playoff bubble team and I could see them doing this, especially if they could pull it off for a reasonable price.

I kind of see Bill's point in that there isn't any huge upgrades coming from within their system this year. Cousins may be a borderline upgrade over White/VDV in some aspects but he would get caved in going against Malkin too. Who know with Weal, except that it makes them smaller and faster. Leier I think needs more time.

coots for drouin? sure why not
- 2Real

I would not do that.

fun time's over. thread was good while it lasted.
- conkey

fun time
general term referring to doing something that pleases oneself that can mean one of the following:
(1) the act of ingesting alcoholic beverages; (2) sexual intercourse with someone of the opposite sex; (3) the act of making out with someone of the opposite sex; (4) or the act of masturbation



So which one is it?

If Coots misses more than another game or 2, chances of playoffs go from slim to none. You just can't win consistently in this league with only one quality center
- BiggE

take out Couts, G, or Jake for significant time and they will be drafting top five.

I'd say Mase too but damn Neuvirth has been so good that the #2 goalie is not an issue any more. Although Neuvirth seems a tad more injury prone then Mase.

I can't predict if the Flyers would've won or not, but for dam sure the matchups would have been better, and Couturier would've helped slow down Crosby or Malkin, whichever he was matched up against.
- MJL

i just think that couturier would have been able to provide a stabilizing presence in the second when the ice really tilted the other way.

I can understand all the reasons Bill mentioned for the continued use of Umberger. But if you are 29th in a 30 team league in scoring, maybe you need a so called 12th forward to chip in something.

Umberger, while not a liability most nights, brings nothing offensively. He's had 2 assists since October 31st. The last time he scored a goal was 362 days ago. He's not used much on special teams, he's not a shut down forward & he's not really bringing anything to the table.

If he could even help on the PK, where even mainstays like Bellemare & VandeVelde have been barely adequate & others used, such as White, have been downright bad. You need more than an absolute stiff & that's what Umberger has brought. Jack poop.
- Jsaquella

Awful deal from the start. There were signs of many steps lost before the trade was even made.

I think if he could pick up a 3rd liner with size who can skate, he should consider it strongly. More likely see something like this over the summer. I know they shouldn't probably be in the buying vets at the TDL but they really are a playoff bubble team and I could see them doing this, especially if they could pull it off for a reasonable price.

I kind of see Bill's point in that there isn't any huge upgrades coming from within their system this year. Cousins may be a borderline upgrade over White/VDV in some aspects but he would get caved in going against Malkin too. Who know with Weal, except that it makes them smaller and faster. Leier I think needs more time.
- Marc D

Depending on the cost, if Hextall sees an opportunity to improve the team now without giving up the future, I think he would make it.

We knew since day 1 that this team has holes, and that the season would be full of ups and downs. The Pens game was the latter. Flyers have played some strong games lately against good team, such as the last time they played the Isles, even though they had some injuries. Hextall is going to improve this team, but it is going to take some time. Umberger is not part of the future, which is why I won't get worked up over him day after day. We know why that trade was made. I'm sure Hextall was expecting to get more out of Umberger, but that's not happening. When this team is ready, Umberger will be a distant memory.

If Couturier is out for the next week, they can likely kiss the playoffs good bye.

He not only gives them a quality second center, he does so much else that he's next to irreplaceable. He's the shut down line cornerstone. He's been providing offense. He's their best penalty killing forward. He frees the Giroux line to be an offensive force by taking hard matchups. He forces other teams to worry about more than Giroux's line.

Even with him, they're a bubble team. Without him, they're simply not going to win much
- Jsaquella

How did we do earlier in the season without Couturier?

I think if he could pick up a 3rd liner with size who can skate, he should consider it strongly. More likely see something like this over the summer. I know they shouldn't probably be in the buying vets at the TDL but they really are a playoff bubble team and I could see them doing this, especially if they could pull it off for a reasonable price.

I kind of see Bill's point in that there isn't any huge upgrades coming from within their system this year. Cousins may be a borderline upgrade over White/VDV in some aspects but he would get caved in going against Malkin too. Who know with Weal, except that it makes them smaller and faster. Leier I think needs more time.
- Marc D

is this 3rd liner a wing or a center? or it doesn't matter? i think they need at least 3 new players in the bottom 6. where they'll get them, and how, i don't know.

they're not generating any scoring from the bottom group. they're at the bottom of league in scoring for a reason. given umberger's performance, i see no harm in using weal for a few games to see what's there. or scratch white or vdv or bellemare or laughton...what difference does it really make?

i just think that couturier would have been able to provide a stabilizing presence in the second when the ice really tilted the other way.
- stayinthefnnet

No doubt, I totally agree. Flyers would've been limited by last change, but Malkin totally abused the Bellemare line.

is this 3rd liner a wing or a center? or it doesn't matter? i think they need at least 3 new players in the bottom 6. where they'll get them, and how, i don't know.

they're not generating any scoring from the bottom group. they're at the bottom of league in scoring for a reason. given umberger's performance, i see no harm in using weal for a few games to see what's there. or scratch white or vdv or bellemare or laughton...what difference does it really make?
- hammarby31

I think next season, we have to hope that some young players make the next step. Never know who they're going to draft, trade, or sign for. I think Raffl ideally is suited for the 3rd line, and he'll be a very strong player in that role. If they draft a player, or Kopecny steps up, that player could play on the 2nd line.