Cole+ for Franson would be nice. BUF need a LD, PIT need a RD. Total contracts are somewhat similar. I'd be very happy with that switch.
- jfkst1

Do we still have Buffalo's 3rd rounder. I would probably be OK with Cole and a 3rd rounder for Franson. Franson actually has 14 points only playing 17 minutes a game on BUF, that would put him in 2nd in points for Pen's D (only behind Letang). Franson would only be one point behind Kunitz if on the Pens.

Franson hasn't been great for them either. He's playing bottom pairing minutes. Pens are taking yet another gamble on a potentially overpaid player. I wouldn't be adding much more.
- jfkst1

I just saw that. Bottom pairing minutes for a 3.3 mill contract isn't great. His production is fine though. I'm just not sure Cole would get it done, even with Franson struggling. Cole's contract pays out much higher these last two years, not sure teams will be too happy with that.

Do we still have Buffalo's 3rd rounder. I would probably be OK with Cole and a 3rd rounder for Franson. Franson actually has 14 points only playing 17 minutes a game on BUF, that would put him in 2nd in points for Pen's D (only behind Letang). Franson would only be one point behind Kunitz if on the Pens.
- so_buzz11

We also have Anaheim's 2nd round pick don't we?

Do we still have Buffalo's 3rd rounder. I would probably be OK with Cole and a 3rd rounder for Franson. Franson actually has 14 points only playing 17 minutes a game on BUF, that would put him in 2nd in points for Pen's D (only behind Letang). Franson would only be one point behind Kunitz if on the Pens.
- so_buzz11

Half of Franson's points are on the PP, and he wouldn't be getting much PP time in Pittsburgh. And Franson is lost in his own zone. And Franson is considerably more overpaid than Cole.

Cole has been better but not great lately.

We also have Anaheim's 2nd round pick don't we?
- usethe1-2-2

Are you looking at Vatanen, I think it might cost more than Cole and their 2nd back to them. They just lost another D to IR.

Half of Franson's points are on the PP, and he wouldn't be getting much PP time in Pittsburgh. And Franson is lost in his own zone. And Franson is considerably more overpaid than Cole.

Cole has been better but not great lately.
- hardnosed

I think it's an unnecessary gamble myself. Franson may fit our system better, but that's honestly no guarantee. He's about as slow as Cole so we're not getting better in that department. He's underachieved everywhere besides Toronto, but how much of that is him having a good shot and being a good PP QB surrounded by really bad players that make him look good in comparison? We'd be adding about a mil in cap hit for a guy that may not be an upgrade and could end up being worse.

Half of Franson's points are on the PP, and he wouldn't be getting much PP time in Pittsburgh. And Franson is lost in his own zone. And Franson is considerably more overpaid than Cole.

Cole has been better but not great lately.
- hardnosed

He still doubles Ian Cole's even strength production, but that doesn't matter because if Cole is traded you lose a guy who plays over 2mins shorthanded a game for a guy who doesn't play much.
I'd still take the deal TBH. He is only overpaid for another season

Are you looking at Vatanen, I think it might cost more than Cole and their 2nd back to them. They just lost another D to IR.
- so_buzz11

I like Vatanen a lot. I think he would cost more than that though.

Half of Franson's points are on the PP, and he wouldn't be getting much PP time in Pittsburgh. And Franson is lost in his own zone. And Franson is considerably more overpaid than Cole.

Cole has been better but not great lately.
- hardnosed

I am open to see how Pouliot does and see how the team does over the next few weeks, but I do believe a Right D upgrade would help the Pens greatly. Just throwing around what is available and doable as far as D-men go towards the trade deadline. Franson probably isn't the best answer, but we don't have a lot to offer.

I think it's an unnecessary gamble myself. Franson may fit our system better, but that's honestly no guarantee. He's about as slow as Cole so we're not getting better in that department. He's underachieved everywhere besides Toronto, but how much of that is him having a good shot and being a good PP QB surrounded by really bad players that make him look good in comparison? We'd be adding about a mil in cap hit for a guy that may not be an upgrade and could end up being worse.
- Victoro311

Agreed, and people are talking about adding a second or a third?

I have no resentment to Fleury. He's playing up to his contract.

I just see us needing to move a contract if we are to have a complete team that is capable of winning a cup. We have no way to replace Crosby, Malkin, or Letang with equivalent players on ELC. As this team is currently constructed we are missing a 3D and one or two top 6 wingers. The only way to fill those gaps will be to move a contract. Fleury is the only one who internally we have a guy who might be able to be replaced with an ELC guy.

Basically I think this team need to add a Shattenkirk. Only way we can do that without weakening another position is a Fleury trade. Yes moving him would be risky, but I don't think we can win a cup without moving a contract and he's the only one that I think we have internal ELC replacements.
- sditulli

I think if Murray can prove himself in the NHL then from a business & sporting prospective, Flower should be traded. Why pay 6m for a player when you can have 'similar' for under 1m? Imagine what the other 5m can do + the picks/prospects you could have as a return. Or a NHL player or 2 - how about a couple from the Flames??

I like Vatanen a lot. I think he would cost more than that though.
- usethe1-2-2

I like Vatanen and agree it would cost more.

What do people think of Mike Stone (Arizona D, 25 yrs old, RSA next year, 18 pts so far playing 22 mins a game at $1.45 Million, I believe, this year.)

I feel like trading for Franson would require doing some awkward trampoline flips, only to get humped in the back of the head by a dog.

Kind of like this:

I feel like trading for Franson would require doing some awkward trampoline flips, only to get humped in the back of the head by a dog.

Kind of like this:


- hardnosed

What came first? The analogy or the gif?

I feel like trading for Franson would require doing some awkward trampoline flips, only to get humped in the back of the head by a dog.

Kind of like this:


- hardnosed

That might be what trading Perron for Hagelin ends up being too. The reality is that the Pens don't have futures to trade anymore so any deal they make is going to be a good amount of assumed risk.

I like Vatanen and agree it would cost more.

What do people think of Mike Stone (Arizona D, 25 yrs old, RSA next year, 18 pts so far playing 22 mins a game at $1.45 Million, I believe, this year.)
- so_buzz11

I'm a big Stone fan. I think he's an ideal middle six guy. I don't see any reason why Arizona would want to trade him though. Their rebuild is lookin pretty promising right now and they could be back in the mix of things in three or so years.

I think if Murray can prove himself in the NHL then from a business & sporting prospective, Flower should be traded. Why pay 6m for a player when you can have 'similar' for under 1m? Imagine what the other 5m can do + the picks/prospects you could have as a return. Or a NHL player or 2 - how about a couple from the Flames??
- Aussiepenguin

Vultures! Not everyone should be ground down into assets, some players should spend their careers and retire Penguins. Fleury is the franchises all time best goalie, he should retire a Penguin. Kunitz will retire a Penguin, Crosby will retire a Penguin, Malkin may as well.
Franchises need legends, numbers retired and folk stories to pass down, everyone wants everything measured down to the penny these days... Shameful.

That might be what trading Perron for Hagelin ends up being too. The reality is that the Pens don't have futures to trade anymore so any deal they make is going to be a good amount of assumed risk.
- jfkst1

Weren't many backflips involved in the Hagelin deal because the assets the Penguins parted with weren't very useful.

The risk/reward factor is the contract. If he fits with Geno, 4 mil is a great deal and we'll be glad they added a guy with term. If not...

Vultures! Not everyone should be ground down into assets, some players should spend their careers and retire Penguins. Fleury is the franchises all time best goalie, he should retire a Penguin. Kunitz will retire a Penguin, Crosby will retire a Penguin, Malkin may as well.
Franchises need legends, numbers retired and folk stories to pass down, everyone wants everything measured down to the penny these days... Shameful.
- stackthepads

What good are legends when you can have draft picks?! Am I right?!!

Vultures! Not everyone should be ground down into assets, some players should spend their careers and retire Penguins. Fleury is the franchises all time best goalie, he should retire a Penguin. Kunitz will retire a Penguin, Crosby will retire a Penguin, Malkin may as well.
Franchises need legends, numbers retired and folk stories to pass down, everyone wants everything measured down to the penny these days... Shameful.
- stackthepads

Maybe I'm old, staid and stubborn, but this is what's wrong with sports today. Players as assets instead of as icons.

Funny thing is the ruthless asset mongers and the "advanced" stats guys are typically one and the same. No need to measure loyalty by the team or the player, or any kind of intangibles when the spreadsheet tells you otherwise.

What's Sam Ventura doing for the Penguins, anyhow? Remember how it was claimed that he was the Penguins' most important addition last offseason?!?

Sullivan certainly doesn't seem like he gives a hen's patoot about "advanced" stats.

Vultures! Not everyone should be ground down into assets, some players should spend their careers and retire Penguins. Fleury is the franchises all time best goalie, he should retire a Penguin. Kunitz will retire a Penguin, Crosby will retire a Penguin, Malkin may as well.
Franchises need legends, numbers retired and folk stories to pass down, everyone wants everything measured down to the penny these days... Shameful.
- stackthepads

Well then Murray goes for less then with more cap taken in goal - bad business.

I think 87, 71 & 58 in 1 era are enough numbers to be hoisted into the rafters.

On the other hand if we win the next 2 cups by all means keep Flower!

Vultures! Not everyone should be ground down into assets, some players should spend their careers and retire Penguins. Fleury is the franchises all time best goalie, he should retire a Penguin. Kunitz will retire a Penguin, Crosby will retire a Penguin, Malkin may as well.
Franchises need legends, numbers retired and folk stories to pass down, everyone wants everything measured down to the penny these days... Shameful.
- stackthepads

There's nothing wrong with being loyal to core star players, but being that level of loyal to guys like Chris Kunitz, Pascal Dupuis, etc gets teams into trouble. We 100% need to move on from Kunitz cap hit by this offseason.

Weren't many backflips involved in the Hagelin deal because the assets the Penguins parted with weren't very useful.

The risk/reward factor is the contract. If he fits with Geno, 4 mil is a great deal and we'll be glad they added a guy with term. If not...
- hardnosed

They're gonna need to do a backflip to get rid of Hagelin if he doesn't' produce. Even if his NTC is voided, no one is taking a $4m/yr player that can't play in the top 6.

There wasn't a "winner" of this trade between us because we both made out so well. Very good cap move on your part. I just don't understand why you haven't sent Scuderi down to the AHL yet. If you do that, you get pretty much all the cap back from the Daley hit. On our end, we got back an asset that's leagues easier to move than Scuderi and we get to avoid the cap recapture penalty from the inevitable buy out that would have taken place this off season. You guys may still buy him out, but the recapture penalty won't be as burdensome on our end because you guys will be helping to foot that bill. I thought we were going to flip Daley again for pucks abd further cap relief and that was the grand plan, but with the way he's playing... Maybe that was the plan at first, but he's really exceeded every expectation here. Maybe Rutherford actually genuinely liked him and targeted him.
- Victoro311

I thought, and I have been wrong once or twice, that the original team that signs the contract is responsible for the recapture? I'm almost positive. It's why no one would even take a chance on Richards.

I thought, and I have been wrong once or twice, that the original team that signs the contract is responsible for the recapture? I'm almost positive. It's why no one would even take a chance on Richards.
- Dcoms

You're correct with Richards because his contract was signed under the old CBA. If Chicago buys out Scuderi, it reduces the Penguins commitment to him proportional to their retained salary.