IMO its too many star talent. You can't have guys like 87 and 71 doing the grunt work. I think thats why PH, Kuni and Dupes worked well with Crosby. JJ did that too with Malkin. Kessel is use to having players do that for him too. Theres no physicality to his game, he gets knocked down pretty easy. The game plan vs the Pens is to play dirty and take runs at the stars. Not sure if Kessel is use to that.
- sammy87

True but you also need that other outlet that can carry you through the playoffs when the other stars are off their games, even slightly. The "difference makers", somebody we have been searching for since Staal and Hossa have left. They helped us tremendously get through the playoffs and to the Stanley Cup because they took a major piece of the burden off of Sid and Geno, and in that 2nd year it was Billy G vice Hoss.

Sam if Kap was still in our system you would be putting poop on him all the time!
- Aussiepenguin

Ive never seen him play and I never talk crap on players until they have some time in the NHL. Having him in the system would A. Allow him to develop possibly into a NHL player. B. Be used in a trade.

IDK where this idea that Kapanen is a great prospect comes from. He's not doing much in the AHL and he wasn't all that great in the junior tourney either (and no scoring the clinching goal doesn't make for a great tournament). He'll probably be a tweener.
- jfkst1

The kid is still only literally 19 years old, very raw/young yet. I believe he just won a tournament for Finland recently too

IDK where this idea that Kapanen is a great prospect comes from. He's not doing much in the AHL and he wasn't all that great in the junior tourney either (and no scoring the clinching goal doesn't make for a great tournament). He'll probably be a tweener.
- jfkst1

It's only giving Sammy a reason to complain implying Kap will be something he isn't showing at the moment he will be.

IMO its too many star talent. You can't have guys like 87 and 71 doing the grunt work. I think thats why PH, Kuni and Dupes worked well with Crosby. JJ did that too with Malkin. Kessel is use to having players do that for him too. Theres no physicality to his game, he gets knocked down pretty easy. The game plan vs the Pens is to play dirty and take runs at the stars. Not sure if Kessel is use to that.
- sammy87

i agree to an extent. they dont have those guys. but at the same time, they do need some scoring help. it would be great to have a guy or two that can do both. JJ wasnt exactly a bulldog, but he was very slick and smart. hossa isnt exactly a grinder, but he was magnificent. granted, kess will never be the well rounded ness of hossa. neal did pretty much nothing but snipe.

i do think that basically kunitz from 5 years ago is the ideal linemate for crosby. but it befuddles me that kessel simply cant make it work. especially on the powerplay.

IDK where this idea that Kapanen is a great prospect comes from. He's not doing much in the AHL and he wasn't all that great in the junior tourney either (and no scoring the clinching goal doesn't make for a great tournament). He'll probably be a tweener.
- jfkst1

Didn't he have 5 pts in 7 games in WJ? He might not ever be anything but neither are anybody else in WB. Options are good.

Ive never seen him play and I never talk crap on players until they have some time in the NHL. Having him in the system would A. Allow him to develop possibly into a NHL player. B. Be used in a trade.
- sammy87

Your B is exactly what he was. How many trades do you want out of 1 prospect?

Well that third period was a disaster Zatkoff needs to go to WBS now

True but you also need that other outlet that can carry you through the playoffs when the other stars are off their games, even slightly. The "difference makers", somebody we have been searching for since Staal and Hossa have left. They helped us tremendously get through the playoffs and to the Stanley Cup because they took a major piece of the burden off of Sid and Geno, and in that 2nd year it was Billy G vice Hoss.
- Weisenheimer

Yeah Staal, Hossa, Billy G. Those guys had a different element to their game. I dont see Kessel being the type to leave it all on the ice.

Pens are desperate for a RW 1-timer on the PP. They had it in Iggy but they blew that chance. Kessel just sucks on that spot. I think PH has a better chance of scoring from that position than Kessel.

Didn't he have 5 pts in 7 games in WJ? He might not ever be anything but neither are anybody else in WB. Options are good.
- sammy87

if someone wants to tell me that they should have never traded for him based upon lack of fit, i will argue thats easier with hindsight, but there at least is a train of thought there.

if someone said they shouldnt have done it based on it not being a need, i cant agree there, seeing as how this team couldnt score, and he was the scorer available.

while i dont think they gave up peanuts, i still cant get on board with thinking they really gave up THAT much. a first rounder, yes. but didnt they get a second back? yeah, it was theres that they probably should have never given up in the first place, but either way, that still offsets value to an extent. spaling who cares. literal salary dump. 2 prospects in kap and harrington, but harrington was getting passed over. that they managed to keep both maatta and pouliot out, and still get a mil retained. i think in straight value exchange, on paper they did well

Your B is exactly what he was. How many trades do you want out of 1 prospect?
- Aussiepenguin

Again for those that can't understand. JR could have taken everything he traded for Kessel and still got a top 6 and a top 4 dman. But like so many they see a small sample of a player (Cole) and holy crap lets give that man a raise! Meanwhile he's a disaster on the blue line.

Yeah Staal, Hossa, Billy G. Those guys had a different element to their game. I dont see Kessel being the type to leave it all on the ice.

Pens are desperate for a RW 1-timer on the PP. They had it in Iggy but they blew that chance. Kessel just sucks on that spot. I think PH has a better chance of scoring from that position than Kessel.
- sammy87

I was all on board when they got him, like most. I thought it was going to work out. He just does not bring what this roster needs, for whatever reason.

if someone wants to tell me that they should have never traded for him based upon lack of fit, i will argue thats easier with hindsight, but there at least is a train of thought there.

if someone said they shouldnt have done it based on it not being a need, i cant agree there, seeing as how this team couldnt score, and he was the scorer available.

while i dont think they gave up peanuts, i still cant get on board with thinking they really gave up THAT much. a first rounder, yes. but didnt they get a second back? yeah, it was theres that they probably should have never given up in the first place, but either way, that still offsets value to an extent. spaling who cares. literal salary dump. 2 prospects in kap and harrington, but harrington was getting passed over. that they managed to keep both maatta and pouliot out, and still get a mil retained. i think in straight value exchange, on paper they did well
- stayinthefnnet

My point is that there are too many holes on this roster and still are. Going huge on Kessel was a massive mistake while 87/71 are in their prime. I agree they needed top 6 help, but with 3 big $7mil contracts already on the books adding Kessel was a death blow and this season is proving it. Adding Hags for 3 more years only makes things worse.

Again for those that can't understand. JR could have taken everything he traded for Kessel and still got a top 6 and a top 4 dman. But like so many they see a small sample of a player (Cole) and holy crap lets give that man a raise! Meanwhile he's a disaster on the blue line.
- sammy87

I agree Cole must go. Lovejoy ain't any better. I'd take Polak over those two.

Always seems to me when we are beaten by a strong team that our 4th line guys get low ice time. Today 4 players with under 10 minutes. That shows this 4 lines of scoring is all bullpoop & the coach relies on the big guns to get the goods. When will they start trusting the 4th line guys in close games - or is that just hockey??

Again for those that can't understand. JR could have taken everything he traded for Kessel and still got a top 6 and a top 4 dman. But like so many they see a small sample of a player (Cole) and holy crap lets give that man a raise! Meanwhile he's a disaster on the blue line.
- sammy87

Thats 8.9M for a -17 defenseman and a 50 point forward. I tend to agree with you!

Again for those that can't understand. JR could have taken everything he traded for Kessel and still got a top 6 and a top 4 dman. But like so many they see a small sample of a player (Cole) and holy crap lets give that man a raise! Meanwhile he's a disaster on the blue line.
- sammy87

Your top 6 would be Oshie, who was the D man?

I agree Cole must go. Lovejoy ain't any better. I'd take Polak over those two.
- Barnaby36

Yeah starting the year with Cole, Lovejoy, Scuds then throw in Dumo being a rookie and Maata coming off surgery and Letang history...How the F do you not address that? Luckily Dumo is doing really well and Maata is progressing every game. But 4.4 for Daley Id rather pay $700k for DP and have him struggle a bit.

Thats 8.9M for a -17 defenseman and a 50 point forward. I tend to agree with you!
- Weisenheimer

I'll have to ask what's Crosby's projected point total as well. Let the Phil play. He'll be better used moving forward.

My point is that there are too many holes on this roster and still are. Going huge on Kessel was a massive mistake while 87/71 are in their prime. I agree they needed top 6 help, but with 3 big $7mil contracts already on the books adding Kessel was a death blow and this season is proving it. Adding Hags for 3 more years only makes things worse.
- sammy87

Agree with you on Phil, but got to disagree with your Hags assessment, think that will prove to be beneficial in the end. $4M is nothing to hard to overcome. He flourished with Sully in NY, and adds versatility on the PK.

Your top 6 would be Oshie, who was the D man?
- Aussiepenguin

Jarry and Kunitz could have landed Oshie. Use the 1st and Harrington for a Shattenkirk level Dman. A deal like that could have been made. its not rocket science.

Yeah starting the year with Cole, Lovejoy, Scuds then throw in Dumo being a rookie and Maata coming off surgery and Letang history...How the F do you not address that? Luckily Dumo is doing really well and Maata is progressing every game. But 4.4 for Daley Id rather pay $700k for DP and have him struggle a bit.
- sammy87

I don't have a problem with Daley since he's doing well and we traded Scuderi for him. I'm OK with that.

Cole and Lovejoy must go....

We should've kept Martin on the team really.

I'll have to ask what's Crosby's projected point total as well. Let the Phil play. He'll be better used moving forward.
- Barnaby36

Crosby is night and day these past 3 weeks, its hard to calculate the Sully variable, which must be done. Kessel's production has not changed with the coaching change.

Always seems to me when we are beaten by a strong team that our 4th line guys get low ice time. Today 4 players with under 10 minutes. That shows this 4 lines of scoring is all bullpoop & the coach relies on the big guns to get the goods. When will they start trusting the 4th line guys in close games - or is that just hockey??
- Aussiepenguin

That's just hockey, Aussie. For example, the Islanders have what many consider to be one of the best 4th lines in hockey and they only get ~10 minutes a night.

Agree with you on Phil, but got to disagree with your Hags assessment, think that will prove to be beneficial in the end. $4M is nothing to hard to overcome. He flourished with Sully in NY, and adds versatility on the PK.
- Weisenheimer

I think Hags will be ok with Malkin but the dude has never put up 20g and Id almost rather just have Perron walk at the end of the year and use the cap for a UFA if possible.