not sure why you say that....hes only head coached 2 nhl teams. Won the cup w anaheim in his 2nd yr and far, far exceeded expectations in TO. Got TO to the PO a few times, even....thats impressive....babcock hasnt done that well so far. Says a lot for Carlyle. He was previously in VAn as assistant so therell b prople on staff who know him and has the scoop on him. Bringing him to anaheim was the best thing they ever did for that franchise.

THere are some players who did not like him its been rumored, but remember....I only advocated bringing him in as a D coach for now saince hes good at Defensive systems and strategies. I also know he will take players and get them to do things right....getting the poop out which this team needs.....sorely. Im not saying HC at this time...just D. The idiot we have now for that is the dumbest Ive seen yet.
- SMBDragon

I will attribute the cup to Babcock in Anaheim, he came after the team was assembled. In Toronto they used to have some half decent players, (I feel dirty just typing that) but felt he was the reason for their poor showing, and he alienated the players to the point they played to get him fired, much like Torts here.

Drinking Naked Grape again, guess it's time for a rant...

I shake my head, Bullfrog, you want to get rid of Edler? He's a #3 (maybe a #2 if he was playing beside a Suter/Weber/Doughty) on a team of 5/6/7 D-men. Who do you replace him with, and don't give me the 2 D for 2.5 each argument... we already have them and there's no way in hell I'd play them even close the same amount of minutes Edler gets.

Let's break down our D:

Edler: Our defacto #1 D-man (Who's really a very good #3, possibly a #2 on a team that has a bonafide #1 D-man) who plays almost 30 minutes, tough minutes at that in all situations against the best lines and does fairly well for what his skill set is.

Tanev: Our #2 D-man (He's really a #3 as well) and he plays safe, does all the little things well, blocks shots, positionally sound and is good in the transition. A less physical and less offensively skilled version of Hamhuis in his prime.

Together they're a decent first pairing, they get the job done, and they don't scare anyone. Next pairing (when healthy mind you)

Hamhuis: Our #3 D-Man (he's slipped from being a Top 4 D this year, but he's better than the rest at this point) and though he's clearly lost a step, and his physical game's diminished to the point of near non-existence due to injuries, he still is very good with positioning and still has a fairly decent shot.

Sbisa: Our #4 (and that's no slight against Hutton, I'll explain why I rank Hutton below him in the next paragraph) and is our only real physical defensive defenseman. He at least throws the body and while he can be an adventure trying to make that first pass he's good enough.

That's our second pairing, and they'd be a very decent third pairing elsewhere, they get exposed when they have to play more than 20 minutes a game because while they're good... they're just not good enough. Let me be clear, these are the types of players you'd be getting at 2.5 mil, good but not good enough.

Hutton: #5 and only because he's a rookie and needs time to adjust and acclimate to the NHL. He comes from NCAA and they play much less games than in the AHL and NHL. He's got great offensive instincts, can skate with the puck, pass and shoot very well but has deficiencies in his defensive game and needs an experienced partner to cover for his shortcomings. Our next PP1 QB in training

Biega: He started #8 or #9 on the depth chart, but moved up quickly to being #6 when injuries hit. He's short, but he's about the only defenseman that battles for everything, including for his teammates.

That's our 3rd pairing, and if you can keep their minutes down, they're actually very serviceable, which is all you can hope to expect from them. Good enough to not get eaten alive and give the top pair a chance to rest until it's time to go out again.

The rest:

Bartkowski: He's definitely a 7, and the less he plays, the better he is, he's not an everyday defenseman and it shows when he's forced to play big minutes in a role that he's not suited for. He's very good at carrying the puck and can skate very well, but he's horrible in his own end and probably is more suited to being a forward than a defenseman.

Pedan: He's big and strong and a much less experienced version of Sbisa with roughly the same shortcomings. He needs more time in Utica before he's ready to take Sbisa's spot in the lineup.

Weber: No question is he offensively gifted, but other than being a PP QB, he shouldn't even be on the ice. He's definitely dropped down the depth chart, and likely won't be offered a contract in the NHL next season.

This is our defense, the kind of players that people want to replace Edler with for the money is our 7/8/9 defensemen. We have to accept that until we draft someone better, or one of our prospects (Hutton, Neill, Brisebois) manages to develop into one that Edler is here to stay. We just don't have the depth to be able to trade him and replace what he does for the money he makes and anything less is unacceptable.
- DariusKnight

Thank you Darius, well done....I hope that clears that up for all ....FINALLY.

several of us have tried explaining it to these blockheaded guys. Perhaps there should be IQ test to be a member here....and a troll screen.

Maybe Ill try that grape

Drinking Naked Grape again, guess it's time for a rant...

I shake my head, Bullfrog, you want to get rid of Edler? He's a #3 (maybe a #2 if he was playing beside a Suter/Weber/Doughty) on a team of 5/6/7 D-men. Who do you replace him with, and don't give me the 2 D for 2.5 each argument... we already have them and there's no way in hell I'd play them even close the same amount of minutes Edler gets.

Let's break down our D:

Edler: Our defacto #1 D-man (Who's really a very good #3, possibly a #2 on a team that has a bonafide #1 D-man) who plays almost 30 minutes, tough minutes at that in all situations against the best lines and does fairly well for what his skill set is.

Tanev: Our #2 D-man (He's really a #3 as well) and he plays safe, does all the little things well, blocks shots, positionally sound and is good in the transition. A less physical and less offensively skilled version of Hamhuis in his prime.

Together they're a decent first pairing, they get the job done, and they don't scare anyone. Next pairing (when healthy mind you)

Hamhuis: Our #3 D-Man (he's slipped from being a Top 4 D this year, but he's better than the rest at this point) and though he's clearly lost a step, and his physical game's diminished to the point of near non-existence due to injuries, he still is very good with positioning and still has a fairly decent shot.

Sbisa: Our #4 (and that's no slight against Hutton, I'll explain why I rank Hutton below him in the next paragraph) and is our only real physical defensive defenseman. He at least throws the body and while he can be an adventure trying to make that first pass he's good enough.

That's our second pairing, and they'd be a very decent third pairing elsewhere, they get exposed when they have to play more than 20 minutes a game because while they're good... they're just not good enough. Let me be clear, these are the types of players you'd be getting at 2.5 mil, good but not good enough.

Hutton: #5 and only because he's a rookie and needs time to adjust and acclimate to the NHL. He comes from NCAA and they play much less games than in the AHL and NHL. He's got great offensive instincts, can skate with the puck, pass and shoot very well but has deficiencies in his defensive game and needs an experienced partner to cover for his shortcomings. Our next PP1 QB in training

Biega: He started #8 or #9 on the depth chart, but moved up quickly to being #6 when injuries hit. He's short, but he's about the only defenseman that battles for everything, including for his teammates.

That's our 3rd pairing, and if you can keep their minutes down, they're actually very serviceable, which is all you can hope to expect from them. Good enough to not get eaten alive and give the top pair a chance to rest until it's time to go out again.

The rest:

Bartkowski: He's definitely a 7, and the less he plays, the better he is, he's not an everyday defenseman and it shows when he's forced to play big minutes in a role that he's not suited for. He's very good at carrying the puck and can skate very well, but he's horrible in his own end and probably is more suited to being a forward than a defenseman.

Pedan: He's big and strong and a much less experienced version of Sbisa with roughly the same shortcomings. He needs more time in Utica before he's ready to take Sbisa's spot in the lineup.

Weber: No question is he offensively gifted, but other than being a PP QB, he shouldn't even be on the ice. He's definitely dropped down the depth chart, and likely won't be offered a contract in the NHL next season.

This is our defense, the kind of players that people want to replace Edler with for the money is our 7/8/9 defensemen. We have to accept that until we draft someone better, or one of our prospects (Hutton, Neill, Brisebois) manages to develop into one that Edler is here to stay. We just don't have the depth to be able to trade him and replace what he does for the money he makes and anything less is unacceptable.
- DariusKnight

Excellent post


Edit: to echo Makita, don't do the naked grape, she's a dangerous trap.
13 dollars will get you a nosey neighbor red which will not make you cry in the morning.

To Streaming: enjoy it, have a good time, our bickering will still be here when you get back.

Thanks Brother, to be honest I'm very nervous.
- A_SteamingLombardi

Be a doting father and grandfather, show them how much the visit means and how much they mean to you and hopefully you are their hero.

Enjoy my friend, family is precious and we are blessed to have one.

What are you talking about?
- A_SteamingLombardi

Yes and yes, steamer

He was an assistant coach in Van till the season he was in anaheim.....so probably 2004. Burke took him from here when he went to the ducks. Uts how he knew him. Carlyle had coached the farm as head coach too.

Yes and leafs made playoffs under carlyle....

facts steamer

Yes and yes, steamer

He was an assistant coach in Van till the season he was in anaheim.....so probably 2004. Burke took him from here when he went to the ducks. Uts how he knew him. Carlyle had coached the farm as head coach too.

Yes and leafs made playoffs under carlyle....

facts steamer
- SMBDragon

He never coached in Vancouver, and yes the Leafs made the playoffs once not "a few times"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Carlyle

Edit: I don't know where you get your "facts" from, maybe the same place you read Jensen was playing in Europe.

Great post and I definitely like your assessment over Bullfrogs...but, and this is a big but because I love ya, quit with the Naked Grape it's a 2 dressed up as 10, you'll want to chew your arm off when you wake up in the morning...
- Makita

Meh, it's drinkable, I'm trying to kill my tastebuds for when I go to Kelowna in the summer for a wine tour and to watch the Rockets training camp.

I will attribute the cup to Babcock in Anaheim, he came after the team was assembled. In Toronto they used to have some half decent players, (I feel dirty just typing that) but felt he was the reason for their poor showing, and he alienated the players to the point they played to get him fired, much like Torts here.
- Makita

Apparently carlyle quit in TO. I was hearing about it the other day. trying to recall the source, but it was out of TO from people said to be connected to staff. Kessel and management involved in it too in that story.

He was actually well received in anaheim....my best friend lived there and had season tickets during that time...

Why was it carlyle that won the cup? Because his stategies were excellent. We saw it 1st season. I was super impressed by the job he did in POs that 1st season. Thus players wanted to perform for him, youd see it in their play.
That series against sakics avalanche he used the D to keep them from entering the zone....when colorado adjusted so did carlyle....colorado had no chance. Hes excellent. Go check out that series, youll see. Ive NEVER EVER seen a coach pull off what he did defensively....and the D wasnt the best lineup either... excellent strategist. I knew at that point theyd win the cup the following yer. which they did after beating us in 2nd rd

He never coached in Vancouver, and yes the Leafs made the playoffs once not "a few times"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Carlyle

Edit: I don't know where you get your "facts" from, maybe the same place you read Jensen was playing in Europe.
- A_SteamingLombardi

He coached the farm team for a season or 2.... he was taken from our system.
Hmmm I remember wilson was an assistant and then went to anaheim... and remember burke saying he was assistnat in vancouver....

But he def came from our system....he coached the farm I know ...think it was manitoba then....

Apparently carlyle quit in TO. I was hearing about it the other day. trying to recall the source, but it was out of TO from people said to be connected to staff. Kessel and management involved in it too in that story.

He was actually well received in anaheim....my best friend lived there and had season tickets during that time...

Why was it carlyle that won the cup? Because his stategies were excellent. We saw it 1st season. I was super impressed by the job he did in POs that 1st season. Thus players wanted to perform for him, youd see it in their play.
That series against sakics avalanche he used the D to keep them from entering the zone....when colorado adjusted so did carlyle....colorado had no chance. Hes excellent. Go check out that series, youll see. Ive NEVER EVER seen a coach pull off what he did defensively....and the D wasnt the best lineup either... excellent strategist. I knew at that point theyd win the cup the following yer. which they did after beating us in 2nd rd
- SMBDragon

It sure helped getting Pronger and Niedermeyer.

It sure helped getting Pronger and Niedermeyer.
- A_SteamingLombardi

Now we just need to find a Niedermayer clone that we can sign for 5 million per. .......

It sure helped getting Pronger and Niedermeyer.
- A_SteamingLombardi

oh yes absolutley!! Pronger esp. Cup finals seem to follow him around.

Im hoping tryamkin can turn out like that in time

btw when I said the D wasnt the best I was referring to his 1st year...karney etc

oh yes absolutley!! Pronger esp. Cup finals seem to follow him around.

Im hoping tryamkin can turn out like that in time

btw when I said the D wasnt the best I was referring to his 1st year
- SMBDragon

Oh I know, he got a good taste the 1st year, I think Burke's dealings and luck were what brought the cup there, he didn't do the whole job he just put the finishing touches to that team.

Now we just need to find a Niedermayer clone that we can sign for 5 million per. .......
- Pres.cup

We have to have the clone's brother play 3rd or 4th line first.

Oh I know, he got a good taste the 1st year, I think Burke's dealings and luck were what brought the cup there, he didn't do the whole job he just put the finishing touches to that team.
- A_SteamingLombardi

I think carlyle was very instrumental due to his strategies. But ya its always a team effort....GM coaches players

A dumb coach can lose it for you too....See Av 2009 till getting canned. 2011 was best lineup we ever had. I t was perfect ...gillis did amazing job that year (THAT YEAR) and AV almost blew it 1st rd ...and blew the final ...although the refs hand their hands wayyy into that jar. still think we'd have won if refs didnt do what they did

esp see bodreau...pretty much any year hes coached.

Guess I'll try my hand at rating the top 10 coaches currently in the NHL (I'm ignoring standings for the time being and just focusing on their accomplishments and coaching ability)

#1: Mike Babcock: He's the only Triple Gold coach in the NHL (Stanley Cup, Olympic Gold, World Championship) and has won at all levels he's coached in. You can argue a lot of his success can be attributed to the talent he had (ala Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg) but the fact is, his teams are always ready to play, and even now in Toronto he's got the Leafs playing like a team and wanting to play for him.

#1A: Joel Quinnville: How can you argue when he's won 3 Cups already (and probably will win 1 or 2 more with Toews, Kane, Keith and Seabrook). It's very close between him and Babcock and I only give the nod to Babcock because he's got Gold in the Olympics (twice) and a World Championship to his name.

#3: Daryl Sutter: Might be wearing out his welcome in Los Angeles where his personality can grate on even the most easygoing players. He's won 2 Cups and his team looks primed to make another run this year.

Here's where it starts to get much more subjective and you can mix and match the order of 4-10 so don't flame me for my rankings.

#4: Claude Julien: Yes he's a douchebag that defends douchebags like Marchand over and over again even when it's clear that he's in the wrong. Yes he's an idiot that plays up to the image of the Big Bad Bruins, but he's won a Cup, been to the SCF after and this despite the fact that his team doesn't have a real superstar on it.

#5: AV: He's had multiple President's Trophies and gotten two different teams to the SCF. In my book, that counts for something. You can debate whether or not he's a good X's and O's coach (he's not) but his success is hard to argue with.

#6: Bob Hartley: Won a Cup with Colorado and managed to get the Flames into the playoffs last year when no one ever believed they'd be able to compete. Of note, absolutely LOATHES Torts and was involved in the infamous locker room non-brawl with him.

#7: Ken Hitchcock: Won a Cup with the Stars, and though St. Louis has great success in the regular season, for whatever reason his teams just can't get over the hump in the playoffs.

#8: Barry Trotz: Up until a couple of years ago, was the longest active coach having coached Nashville since it's inception. Took an expansion team from joke status to contender and only the fact that they play in the West where Chicago and LA dominated are the only reason they haven't made it to an SCF. Is currently getting Washington to buy into his system and they are having huge success and are leading the standings.

#9: Bruce Boudreau: I hesitate to put him here since he's the coach that dreads Game 7. Every single time a series gets to Game 7, he loses, but yet he's won at all levels and had great success in the regular season with both Washington and Anaheim (until this year).

Finally at #10: Todd McClelland: He's coached San Jose to regular season success but never could get over the hump and make it to a final. Given the chance to coach Edmonton and with several 1OA picks on the roster including Connor McDavid to glory.

Feel free to debate who and where I've ranked coaches, but bear in mind, I'm mostly ignoring this years standings in ranking them.

Guess I'll try my hand at rating the top 10 coaches currently in the NHL (I'm ignoring standings for the time being and just focusing on their accomplishments and coaching ability)

#1: Mike Babcock: He's the only Triple Gold coach in the NHL (Stanley Cup, Olympic Gold, World Championship) and has won at all levels he's coached in. You can argue a lot of his success can be attributed to the talent he had (ala Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg) but the fact is, his teams are always ready to play, and even now in Toronto he's got the Leafs playing like a team and wanting to play for him.

#1A: Joel Quinnville: How can you argue when he's won 3 Cups already (and probably will win 1 or 2 more with Toews, Kane, Keith and Seabrook). It's very close between him and Babcock and I only give the nod to Babcock because he's got Gold in the Olympics (twice) and a World Championship to his name.

#3: Daryl Sutter: Might be wearing out his welcome in Los Angeles where his personality can grate on even the most easygoing players. He's won 2 Cups and his team looks primed to make another run this year.

Here's where it starts to get much more subjective and you can mix and match the order of 4-10 so don't flame me for my rankings.

#4: Claude Julien: Yes he's a douchebag that defends douchebags like Marchand over and over again even when it's clear that he's in the wrong. Yes he's an idiot that plays up to the image of the Big Bad Bruins, but he's won a Cup, been to the SCF after and this despite the fact that his team doesn't have a real superstar on it.

#5: AV: He's had multiple President's Trophies and gotten two different teams to the SCF. In my book, that counts for something. You can debate whether or not he's a good X's and O's coach (he's not) but his success is hard to argue with.

#6: Bob Hartley: Won a Cup with Colorado and managed to get the Flames into the playoffs last year when no one ever believed they'd be able to compete. Of note, absolutely LOATHES Torts and was involved in the infamous locker room non-brawl with him.

#7: Ken Hitchcock: Won a Cup with the Stars, and though St. Louis has great success in the regular season, for whatever reason his teams just can't get over the hump in the playoffs.

#8: Barry Trotz: Up until a couple of years ago, was the longest active coach having coached Nashville since it's inception. Took an expansion team from joke status to contender and only the fact that they play in the West where Chicago and LA dominated are the only reason they haven't made it to an SCF. Is currently getting Washington to buy into his system and they are having huge success and are leading the standings.

#9: Bruce Boudreau: I hesitate to put him here since he's the coach that dreads Game 7. Every single time a series gets to Game 7, he loses, but yet he's won at all levels and had great success in the regular season with both Washington and Anaheim (until this year).

Finally at #10: Todd McClelland: He's coached San Jose to regular season success but never could get over the hump and make it to a final. Given the chance to coach Edmonton and with several 1OA picks on the roster including Connor McDavid to glory.

Feel free to debate who and where I've ranked coaches, but bear in mind, I'm mostly ignoring this years standings in ranking them.
- DariusKnight

BB should not be on the list. It appears his thoughts during a game are more on what flavors he will pick at baskin robbins on the way home

You missed aguy...not actually in nhl now but noteworthy....Mike Keenan Has won the cup and prob has been on more deep cup runs than any other coach on that list. He is the only coach in history to ever win both the stanley cup AND the khl cup. very noteworthy

i suspect hitchcocks playoff approach is greatly outdated.

BB should not be on the list. It appears his thoughts during a game are more on what flavors he will pick at baskin robbins on the way home

You missed aguy...not actually in nhl now but noteworthy....Mike Keenan Has won the cup and prob has been on more deep cup runs than any other coach on that list. He is the only coach in history to ever win both the stanley cup AND the khl cup. very noteworthy

i suspect hitchcocks playoff approach is greatly outdated.
- SMBDragon

Note I said current NHL coaches, otherwise I'd have replaced McClelland and Boudreau with Crawford and Wilson

Pretty much says it all right?
- Bullfrog77

Gents I won't be around for a couple of weeks my Daughter and Granddaughter arrive tomorrow for 16 days of joy (fingers crossed)
- A_SteamingLombardi

Enjoy bro.

For the record I think Hamhuis is easily still a top 4 Dman on most teams in the league. He'll look like a much different player without Weber as his partner on a regular basis.

For the record I think Hamhuis is easily still a top 4 Dman on most teams in the league. He'll look like a much different player without Weber as his partner on a regular basis.
- golfingsince

Even when Weber wasn't in the lineup he's not as good as he was even a year ago. He's no longer a top 4 D-man, he's clearly lost a step and whatever physicality he had has diminished due to injuries. Don't expect him to be any better when he gets back into the lineup, it'll take him awhile to get back to speed.

Edler hasn't been the same since his back/hip went out. His shot is slower and he doesn't constantly go for the big hits. I am sure he plays a different game because of it

Even when Weber wasn't in the lineup he's not as good as he was even a year ago. He's no longer a top 4 D-man, he's clearly lost a step and whatever physicality he had has diminished due to injuries. Don't expect him to be any better when he gets back into the lineup, it'll take him awhile to get back to speed.
- DariusKnight

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

He still plays well positionally, and a sound defensive game overall. His first pass is still good, and he is still a sound decision maker.

His absence from this lineup has been very noticeable.

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

He still plays well positionally, and a sound defensive game overall. His first pass is still good, and he is still a sound decision maker.

His absence from this lineup has been very noticeable.
- golfingsince

That's fair, but I'd argue that when you have a bunch of 7/8/9/10 D-men playing big minutes even a 5 looks good in comparison. His play was horrid until he got injured, my lasting memory of him is of him bobbling the puck near the goal line and having to do the chicken dance to try and get into position and then getting hit in the face with the puck. And note that while that giveaway was memorable because of the injury, it was representative of his play up until that point.