C'mon man, how many times does he have to answer this? Any D man who makes half his salary and is established in the league and can make a first pass and provide offence and bring some grit to this sad sack collection of cream puffs.
- CubanBuffet

Pretty much says it all right?

Are you trying to be an idiot? Re read again. I didn't say he was worse then the others, I think there all crap. I'd rather have 6 guys from the comets plus the cap relief and the draft picks then this six man group. Stop putting words in my mouth, read the (frank)ing post and understand it. Like talkin to a wall geesh.
- Bullfrog77

You're advocating a tank in other words. That's what it boils down to.

That's what the arguments these days boils down to.

You want an active tank while Benning (at least publicly) has said the team won't do that.

Around and round the argument wheel goes.

Well I commend you for at least throwing out some names.

Your d corps would definitely get a top draft pick

- RealityChecker

And that would be just fine...it's exactly what we need.

Yeah, you're right. Totally obvious.

BTW, Benning should pick up some top 6 forwards that are on cheap, are gifted offensively, and have a lot of sandpaper. I mean that sh!t is obvious . Why doesn't Benning see that?
- RealityChecker

Personally I'd like a vezina calibre goalie on an entry level contract. I can understand why Benning hasn't gotten one. Does he not like vezina calibre goalies on entry level contracts?

You're advocating a tank in other words. That's what it boils down to.

That's what the arguments these days boils down to.

You want an active tank while Benning (at least publicly) has said the team won't do that.

Around and round the argument wheel goes.
- RealityChecker

I'm advocating moving on from a group of players that proven they have no heart. I'd rather lose with heart and effort then win with these bums we got now. They had there chances and blew it. Nothing good comes from trying to hold on

And that would be just fine...it's exactly what we need.
- Bullfrog77

Keep tilting at those windmills my friend.

I'm advocating moving on from a group of players that proven they have no heart. I'd rather lose with heart and effort then win with these bums we got now. They had there chances and blew it. Nothing good comes from trying to hold on
- Bullfrog77

I'm not sure you noticed but the team is rebuilding/transitioning/retooling.

The team is not going to replace the core in one season. This is a multi year process but feel free to believe that all the moves need to be made immediately.

Personally I'd like a vezina calibre goalie on an entry level contract. I can't understand why Benning hasn't gotten one. Does he not like vezina calibre goalies on entry level contracts?
- CubanBuffet

His loyalty to Miller prevents him from doing that. Rat bastard. Fire him!

I'm advocating moving on from a group of players that proven they have no heart. I'd rather lose with heart and effort then win with these bums we got now. They had there chances and blew it. Nothing good comes from trying to hold on
- Bullfrog77

So. .. trade everyone, waive the twins.
Sign Stamkos to a 7x 7(hell hank throws up those numbers to)
Sign big , fast, defencive left wing who can intimidate while throwing up 30 goals and 40 assists to a 7 x7
Hamhuis and Edler for Doughty and Keith

Bam rebuild complete.
Easy peazy right.




Get er done JB!

If jim won't do it fire him and do and hire someone who will.

So. .. trade everyone, waive the twins.
Sign Stamkos to a 7x 7(hell hank throws up those numbers to)
Sign big , fast, defencive left wing who can intimidate while throwing up 30 goals and 40 assists to a 7 x7
Hamhuis and Edler for Doughty and Keith

Bam rebuild complete.
Easy peazy right.




Get er done JB!

If jim won't do it fire him and do and hire someone who will.

- Pres.cup

yeah...that's exactly what I've been sayin...

oh....I wasnt listening to it at the time.

OK so lets go get him. Not sure he is able to leave mid season though
- SMBDragon

No thanks, he and Wilson would be the last coaches I would ever want in Vancouver...(frank) bring Torts back before Carlye
Sorry Marwood

Lol wow !!!
- Bullfrog77

I may not be Edlers biggest fan, but I think you are being extremely naive if you think you can replace his skill with 2 Pedan or Bartowski type players

That's replaced ! He is a bad defenseman. Any ....ANY d man that can hit skate pass and take the body, at a league average level is a big improvement on Edler. Take the first rounder , draft whatever , take the 3 mil in cap space ...get a ufa....pick up a scoring winger... Or a real good checker. Either way the team is more competitive then it was with Edler eating up 5 mil and being a passenger on the back end
- Bullfrog77

wow, I seriously don't know what to reply, other than I certainly don't agree with your assessment or thought process.

yeah...that's exactly what I've been sayin...

- Bullfrog77

Isn't it? ??

Gents I won't be around for a couple of weeks my Daughter and Granddaughter arrive tomorrow for 16 days of joy (fingers crossed)

Gents I won't be around for a couple of weeks my Daughter and Granddaughter arrive tomorrow for 16 days of joy (fingers crossed)
- A_SteamingLombardi

Enjoy it man. We'll have the parade route all planned out when you get back.

Gents I won't be around for a couple of weeks my Daughter and Granddaughter arrive tomorrow for 16 days of joy (fingers crossed)
- A_SteamingLombardi

I hope you have a fantastic time while their in town, your wit and humour will be missed.
PS. I not sure how much of this whacked out trade, tank, overvaluing, undervaluing, I know whats best for the team, I can take anymore, so I might just take a sabbatical for awhile also. Open season for leaf and other trolls.

I hope you have a fantastic time while their in town, your wit and humour will be missed.
PS. I not sure how much of this whacked out trade, tank, overvaluing, undervaluing, I know whats best for the team, I can take anymore, so I might just take a sabbatical for awhile also. Open season for leaf and other trolls.
- Makita

Nooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

youre just saying what I said right back at me. Yes the riff raff third an fourth line have changed. But they aren't the straw that stirs the drink. The old core gets all the minutes, all the pp time still lose all the battles , to the heavy teams and sti got embarrassed by a pathetic peckerhead from the AHL named ferland ! The core is (frank)ed and it's rotten and needs to be purged . If you can't see that then nothing I say will change that. I tried to explain the best way I know how.
- Bullfrog77

no the bottom 9 has changed....lots of D too. Thats A LOT of players.

youre still not getting it....its the same consistently over years due to a system of play that has never changed since AV left. We get a coaching staff that has a plan for play we'll actually see change finally. the Core too.

Im sure theres been some numbskull players over time sure....kassian for 1...but its a lack of a system of play that continues to derail them all.

you mentioned core....look at sedins at worlds or olympics....played a different way set in by the coach. They were awesome....they charged the net

I think youve been reading botchford too much....its poisoned the well

I hope you have a fantastic time while their in town, your wit and humour will be missed.
PS. I not sure how much of this whacked out trade, tank, overvaluing, undervaluing, I know whats best for the team, I can take anymore, so I might just take a sabbatical for awhile also. Open season for leaf and other trolls.
- Makita

I hear ya. Its gotten stupid.

makita please dont just leave us empty handed though....get someone to fill in for you

Im sure vantel would be happy to take over.

Drinking Naked Grape again, guess it's time for a rant...

I shake my head, Bullfrog, you want to get rid of Edler? He's a #3 (maybe a #2 if he was playing beside a Suter/Weber/Doughty) on a team of 5/6/7 D-men. Who do you replace him with, and don't give me the 2 D for 2.5 each argument... we already have them and there's no way in hell I'd play them even close the same amount of minutes Edler gets.

Let's break down our D:

Edler: Our defacto #1 D-man (Who's really a very good #3, possibly a #2 on a team that has a bonafide #1 D-man) who plays almost 30 minutes, tough minutes at that in all situations against the best lines and does fairly well for what his skill set is.

Tanev: Our #2 D-man (He's really a #3 as well) and he plays safe, does all the little things well, blocks shots, positionally sound and is good in the transition. A less physical and less offensively skilled version of Hamhuis in his prime.

Together they're a decent first pairing, they get the job done, and they don't scare anyone. Next pairing (when healthy mind you)

Hamhuis: Our #3 D-Man (he's slipped from being a Top 4 D this year, but he's better than the rest at this point) and though he's clearly lost a step, and his physical game's diminished to the point of near non-existence due to injuries, he still is very good with positioning and still has a fairly decent shot.

Sbisa: Our #4 (and that's no slight against Hutton, I'll explain why I rank Hutton below him in the next paragraph) and is our only real physical defensive defenseman. He at least throws the body and while he can be an adventure trying to make that first pass he's good enough.

That's our second pairing, and they'd be a very decent third pairing elsewhere, they get exposed when they have to play more than 20 minutes a game because while they're good... they're just not good enough. Let me be clear, these are the types of players you'd be getting at 2.5 mil, good but not good enough.

Hutton: #5 and only because he's a rookie and needs time to adjust and acclimate to the NHL. He comes from NCAA and they play much less games than in the AHL and NHL. He's got great offensive instincts, can skate with the puck, pass and shoot very well but has deficiencies in his defensive game and needs an experienced partner to cover for his shortcomings. Our next PP1 QB in training

Biega: He started #8 or #9 on the depth chart, but moved up quickly to being #6 when injuries hit. He's short, but he's about the only defenseman that battles for everything, including for his teammates.

That's our 3rd pairing, and if you can keep their minutes down, they're actually very serviceable, which is all you can hope to expect from them. Good enough to not get eaten alive and give the top pair a chance to rest until it's time to go out again.

The rest:

Bartkowski: He's definitely a 7, and the less he plays, the better he is, he's not an everyday defenseman and it shows when he's forced to play big minutes in a role that he's not suited for. He's very good at carrying the puck and can skate very well, but he's horrible in his own end and probably is more suited to being a forward than a defenseman.

Pedan: He's big and strong and a much less experienced version of Sbisa with roughly the same shortcomings. He needs more time in Utica before he's ready to take Sbisa's spot in the lineup.

Weber: No question is he offensively gifted, but other than being a PP QB, he shouldn't even be on the ice. He's definitely dropped down the depth chart, and likely won't be offered a contract in the NHL next season.

This is our defense, the kind of players that people want to replace Edler with for the money is our 7/8/9 defensemen. We have to accept that until we draft someone better, or one of our prospects (Hutton, Neill, Brisebois) manages to develop into one that Edler is here to stay. We just don't have the depth to be able to trade him and replace what he does for the money he makes and anything less is unacceptable.

No thanks, he and Wilson would be the last coaches I would ever want in Vancouver...(frank) bring Torts back before Carlye
Sorry Marwood
- Makita

not sure why you say that....hes only head coached 2 nhl teams. Won the cup w anaheim in his 2nd yr and far, far exceeded expectations in TO. Got TO to the PO a few times, even....thats impressive....babcock hasnt done that well so far. Says a lot for Carlyle. He was previously in VAn as assistant so therell b prople on staff who know him and has the scoop on him. Bringing him to anaheim was the best thing they ever did for that franchise.

THere are some players who did not like him its been rumored, but remember....I only advocated bringing him in as a D coach for now saince hes good at Defensive systems and strategies. I also know he will take players and get them to do things right....getting the poop out which this team needs.....sorely. Im not saying HC at this time...just D. The idiot we have now for that is the dumbest Ive seen yet.

I hope you have a fantastic time while their in town, your wit and humour will be missed.
PS. I not sure how much of this whacked out trade, tank, overvaluing, undervaluing, I know whats best for the team, I can take anymore, so I might just take a sabbatical for awhile also. Open season for leaf and other trolls.
- Makita

Thanks Brother, to be honest I'm very nervous.

Drinking Naked Grape again, guess it's time for a rant...

I shake my head, Bullfrog, you want to get rid of Edler? He's a #3 (maybe a #2 if he was playing beside a Suter/Weber/Doughty) on a team of 5/6/7 D-men. Who do you replace him with, and don't give me the 2 D for 2.5 each argument... we already have them and there's no way in hell I'd play them even close the same amount of minutes Edler gets.

Let's break down our D:

Edler: Our defacto #1 D-man (Who's really a very good #3, possibly a #2 on a team that has a bonafide #1 D-man) who plays almost 30 minutes, tough minutes at that in all situations against the best lines and does fairly well for what his skill set is.

Tanev: Our #2 D-man (He's really a #3 as well) and he plays safe, does all the little things well, blocks shots, positionally sound and is good in the transition. A less physical and less offensively skilled version of Hamhuis in his prime.

Together they're a decent first pairing, they get the job done, and they don't scare anyone. Next pairing (when healthy mind you)

Hamhuis: Our #3 D-Man (he's slipped from being a Top 4 D this year, but he's better than the rest at this point) and though he's clearly lost a step, and his physical game's diminished to the point of near non-existence due to injuries, he still is very good with positioning and still has a fairly decent shot.

Sbisa: Our #4 (and that's no slight against Hutton, I'll explain why I rank Hutton below him in the next paragraph) and is our only real physical defensive defenseman. He at least throws the body and while he can be an adventure trying to make that first pass he's good enough.

That's our second pairing, and they'd be a very decent third pairing elsewhere, they get exposed when they have to play more than 20 minutes a game because while they're good... they're just not good enough. Let me be clear, these are the types of players you'd be getting at 2.5 mil, good but not good enough.

Hutton: #5 and only because he's a rookie and needs time to adjust and acclimate to the NHL. He comes from NCAA and they play much less games than in the AHL and NHL. He's got great offensive instincts, can skate with the puck, pass and shoot very well but has deficiencies in his defensive game and needs an experienced partner to cover for his shortcomings. Our next PP1 QB in training

Biega: He started #8 or #9 on the depth chart, but moved up quickly to being #6 when injuries hit. He's short, but he's about the only defenseman that battles for everything, including for his teammates.

That's our 3rd pairing, and if you can keep their minutes down, they're actually very serviceable, which is all you can hope to expect from them. Good enough to not get eaten alive and give the top pair a chance to rest until it's time to go out again.

The rest:

Bartkowski: He's definitely a 7, and the less he plays, the better he is, he's not an everyday defenseman and it shows when he's forced to play big minutes in a role that he's not suited for. He's very good at carrying the puck and can skate very well, but he's horrible in his own end and probably is more suited to being a forward than a defenseman.

Pedan: He's big and strong and a much less experienced version of Sbisa with roughly the same shortcomings. He needs more time in Utica before he's ready to take Sbisa's spot in the lineup.

Weber: No question is he offensively gifted, but other than being a PP QB, he shouldn't even be on the ice. He's definitely dropped down the depth chart, and likely won't be offered a contract in the NHL next season.

This is our defense, the kind of players that people want to replace Edler with for the money is our 7/8/9 defensemen. We have to accept that until we draft someone better, or one of our prospects (Hutton, Neill, Brisebois) manages to develop into one that Edler is here to stay. We just don't have the depth to be able to trade him and replace what he does for the money he makes and anything less is unacceptable.
- DariusKnight

Great post and I definitely like your assessment over Bullfrogs...but, and this is a big but because I love ya, quit with the Naked Grape it's a 2 dressed up as 10, you'll want to chew your arm off when you wake up in the morning...

not sure why you say that....hes only head coached 2 nhl teams. Won the cup w anaheim in his 2nd yr and far, far exceeded expectations in TO. Got TO to the PO a few times, even....thats impressive....babcock hasnt done that well so far. Says a lot for Carlyle. He was previously in VAn as assistant so therell b prople on staff who know him and has the scoop on him. Bringing him to anaheim was the best thing they ever did for that franchise.

THere are some players who did not like him its been rumored, but remember....I only advocated bringing him in as a D coach for now saince hes good at Defensive systems and strategies. I also know he will take players and get them to do things right....getting the poop out which this team needs.....sorely. Im not saying HC at this time...just D. The idiot we have now for that is the dumbest Ive seen yet.
- SMBDragon

What are you talking about?