I am reading back on the posts for earlier this afternoon, and damn, some people need some cranberry juice today.

Was thinking about saying the same thing…the 21st pick is a true unknown….and you have to wait a few years to even find out. Lerner was known to Murray, so he went with it. All other options with the 21st pick are unknown to us. So, "woulda coulda shoulda" is pretty much all thats left. Murray went for the players he wanted. He said "2 drafts to be competitive again." obviously, competitive is subjective, but they are more fun to watch than the last 2 years and are on schedule to be better at the end of the year point wise than they have the last 2. What people think Murray could have done with picks or prospects is irrelevant because its not what he did any way. He's committed to his stated plan and I'm sure he's not done.
- seedy

See i think that where you are wrong. That draft was loaded. We are already seeing how good these players are. I follow prospects pretty closely before and after the draft. Koneckny and white for example look like studs. Konecny almost stuck after his performance in training camp for Philly and white is killing it in college and may be in the NHL next year. I think after having so many picks we forget how important they can be for a team. I understand this topic has gotten old quick so I apologise if I sound like a broken record but i think it was a big mistake even if Lehner turns out to be an above avaerage goalie

David Pastrnak was drafted 25th in 2014 - already looks like a top 6 NHL'er
Jared McCann was drafted 24th overall in 2014 - Has 6 goals and has looked good
Dylan Larkin was drafted 15th in 2014- Might be the calder winner.

They aren't all crapshoots, and they don't all take 5 years to pan out
- sbroads24

His plan was to be competitive this year. He set the bar to Pegula.
He took a chance either way, but I think he went with the more known quantity than the less.
Again, we can argue about our opinions as to what "competitive" means, but from a standpoint of him executing his plan, I don't think there are going to be any complaints from his boss.
If we're in this spot at the end of next season, I'm on board with the hot seat.

See i think that where you are wrong. That draft was loaded. We are already seeing how good these players are. I follow prospects pretty closely before and after the draft. Koneckny and white for example look like studs. Konecny almost stuck after his performance in training camp for Philly and white is killing it in college and may be in the NHL next year. I think after having so many picks we forget how important they can be for a team. I understand this topic has gotten old quick so I apologise if I sound like a broken record but i think it was a big mistake even if Lehner turns out to be an above avaerage goalie
- MCGUIZZY

I get the Lerner thing, It doesn't look good, but I'm not gonna speculate yet. But you have to understand that when murray interviewed for his job, he probably told Pegula (as he did the press) that if hired he's going to completely gut the team, start from scratch, and ice a competitive team after 2 drafts. guys in college or Juniors aren't going to help him do that now. I'm sure he would love any one of those prospects in the system. Frankly, I think we should have resigned one of the goalies we traded away.

I know the story man. Doesnt mean it was the right move
- MCGUIZZY

If you know the story, you know he's a little more known commodity than a 18-year old.
But you said he's not a known commodity in your opinion.

Which is it? (hypothetical question).

ALL draft picks are unknown commodities, to some extent. Guys that have played at the AHL and NHL level by age 23 or 24 are less unknown.

David Pastrnak was drafted 25th in 2014 - already looks like a top 6 NHL'er
Jared McCann was drafted 24th overall in 2014 - Has 6 goals and has looked good
Dylan Larkin was drafted 15th in 2014- Might be the calder winner.

They aren't all crapshoots, and they don't all take 5 years to pan out
- sbroads24

That's what a crapshoot is, you win some, lose some. That's why, other than blackjack, craps has the best odds for the player. There are some guys drafted ~21 who never even sniffed the NHL and then you have Giroux. That's a crapshoot.

And everyone calculates risk differently. Murray can't afford to wait 5 years, or even 2 or 3 before guys even start to pan out. Then they have to learn to play together which takes at least half a season. We don't know the time frame he was given, but he almost certainly was given one. So if he hits, great, he's a genius, if not, then no big loss because he'd be out of a job regardless in 3 years. Do you really think he has any allegiance to the city? His job is to win, sooner than later, and that's what he's trying to do. This year is a write off, always was, even after all the moves. They want another top 5 pick if at all possible. If they play well, so much the better, that puts them ahead of the game. We'll still be picking top 10 more than likely and you can get a shiny new toy for Eichel's right side there, whether it's a draft pick, or another trade, for say Ryan Johansen. For this year at least it's hard for him to lose in the eyes of the only people who matter, the Pegulas.

I get the Lerner thing, It doesn't look good, but I'm not gonna speculate yet. But you have to understand that when murray interviewed for his job, he probably told Pegula (as he did the press) that if hired he's going to completely gut the team, start from scratch, and ice a competitive team after 2 drafts. guys in college or Juniors aren't going to help him do that now. I'm sure he would love any one of those prospects in the system. Frankly, I think we should have resigned one of the goalies we traded away.
- seedy

I agree, but Neuvirth was not going to re-sign after what he said when he was traded, and who knows if Lindback wanted to either. Given his salary this year I'd have to think they offered that if they wanted him. It's not like he went to the Rangers, Kings, or Hawks. Enroth was done with Buffalo too.

Frankly, I think we should have resigned one of the goalies we traded away.
- seedy

As much as I defend the Lehner trade, I was hoping they keep Neuvirth.

I agree, but Neuvirth was not going to re-sign after what he said when he was traded, and who knows if Lindback wanted to either. Given his salary this year I'd have to think they offered that if they wanted him. It's not like he went to the Rangers, Kings, or Hawks. Enroth was done with Buffalo too.
- Wetbandit1

Yeah, if they had only handled Neuvirth better at the time of the trade, I think he might have been a good fit this year.

I hope Murray is right on his potential, but as of right now, to me that trade still looks like, "Here, Uncle Bryan. Have a 1st round pick on me in an awesome draft as a thank you for giving me my career."
- sskkoo1

You really think that c'mon. If anyone suspected that he would never get a GM job again. He watched this kid win him an AHL championship and he was doing alright in the NHL till the injury . He was making people talk about trading Anderson . He thought he made a good hockey deal. He knew who he wanted to build his team around between the pipes.

You really think that c'mon. If anyone suspected that he would never get a GM job again. He watched this kid win him an AHL championship and he was doing alright in the NHL till the injury . He was making people talk about trading Anderson . He thought he made a good hockey deal. He knew who he wanted to build his team around between the pipes.
- Maximum Signal

Thats the thing. He knows the kid well and sees potential in him. Until I see him fail, I can't give a verdict.

I hope Murray is right on his potential, but as of right now, to me that trade still looks like, "Here, Uncle Bryan. Have a 1st round pick on me in an awesome draft as a thank you for giving me my career."
- sskkoo1

How does it possibly look like that? Lehner hasn't even played a game yet, but he is already going to be horrible?

As much as I defend the Lehner trade, I was hoping they keep Neuvirth.
- LandlordTom

Me Too.

Flipping through the channels, found University of Minnesota/Michigan game. Fashing with a goal.....

Flipping through the channels, found University of Minnesota/Michigan game. Fashing with a goal.....
- seedy

Fasching with two.....speaking of prospects in the cupboard.

I stayed quiet earlier about the Tim Murray subject, but i can stand it no longer.

I will admit that I was wrong about ROR. He is a very good player, better than I expected. I don't think he has a scorers touch, but he is great in every other aspect. If he did have that ability to finish I think he would be one of the best players in the league, but still, he was probably worth what we payed in the trade if not more.

BUT,

I truly believe, I am not just saying this to cause trouble or to take an opposite stance from others, I truly believe that every other trade Murray made was horrible.

The worst one, which no one ever mentions is the McNabb to LA trade. We gave up McNabb, Jonathan Parker and 2 second round picks for Deslaurier and Fasching, both bottom six prospects. Even if Deslaurier and Fasching were in this next years draft with their current age and ability, they would be second round picks at best. Furthermore, bottom six forwards play much lesser roles than a top four dman, and are much easier to find in FA than a big, offensive and physical defenseman. The trade made no sense to me, it was like we were giving away McNabb for nothing. And McNabb is doing well in LA, a week or so ago I heard he was playing on top line woth Doughty, but I didn't hear the circumstances, it may have been necessity.

I didn't want Kane and I didn't want to give up on Myers quite yet. I was willing to give Myers a few more years to figure it out. Because he was being paid like a second pair dman anyways and at worse he was that, and has the potential to be one of the better dmen in the league. I think the problem there was that he had such high expectations, and when he didn't live up to them on a terrible team, people lost patience. Anyways, Kane's reputation turned me off, and I never wanted him, so that trade was a huge overpayment to me. People always say that Stafford wouldn't be here anyways and that Lemieux wanted out too. But that fails to recognize that we could have traded those pieces, and armia too, in different deals to get value for our assets. Kane is a beast athletically, but between the ears I am not convinced yet, and I will not be surprised if or when I hear that he is a problem in some way, sometime in the not too far future, and I am sure his ego will be at the heart of the matter.

And to end with, the Lehner trade, imo, is not even debatable. It was a huge overpayment. A 21st overall draftpick for a goalie who was drafted 46th overall, who had a bad concussion, who never won the starting job with his prior organization and according to some was third on their depth chart behind Craig Anderson and Ray Emery? I think? Just ridiculous, we could have drafted the best goalie prospect in the draft with that pick, one without a concussion history. And people criticized Darcy for falling in love with "his" players.

I think Murray deserves a lot of criticism. He went all in on his trades and used up the majority of our assets for the team that you see right now. And why this makes me mad, is because he could not have had a better set-up. The Sabres were many peoples selection for the best farm system in the league. He had an abundance of extra picks, and was going to be drafting high for a few more years. And he chose to go all in on some pretty questionable trades.

There was no need to rush trades immediately, this team wasn't going to be good until all the good young players grew up a bit. We were pretty sure we would get at least Eichel in the upcoming draft and he would need a few years, All the good young dmen needed time. We could have waited for better trades or tried to add through FA. It would have been a much safer approach with less risk.

I really do think Murray hurt this team more than he helped it. And it frustrates me, because contrary to what many of you say, I do want this team to be great. And I don't see anything close to a contender even when Eichel and Reinhart grow up. And we have very little help coming, no depth defensively, a huge question mark in goal, and a lot of over the hill unproductive players. I just hope we win one of the lottery top three picks so we can fill one of the many holes on this roster.

These are my true beliefs. I am just as big a fan as any of you. I am not a troll for thinking differently than you. And insult me all you want, I wont be back to read it. But try not to get me banned by calling me names please.

I stayed quiet earlier about the Tim Murray subject, but i can stand it no longer.

I will admit that I was wrong about ROR. He is a very good player, better than I expected. I don't think he has a scorers touch, but he is great in every other aspect. If he did have that ability to finish I think he would be one of the best players in the league, but still, he was probably worth what we payed in the trade if not more.

BUT,

I truly believe, I am not just saying this to cause trouble or to take an opposite stance from others, I truly believe that every other trade Murray made was horrible.

The worst one, which no one ever mentions is the McNabb to LA trade. We gave up McNabb, Jonathan Parker and 2 second round picks for Deslaurier and Fasching, both bottom six prospects. Even if Deslaurier and Fasching were in this next years draft with their current age and ability, they would be second round picks at best. Furthermore, bottom six forwards play much lesser roles than a top four dman, and are much easier to find in FA than a big, offensive and physical defenseman. The trade made no sense to me, it was like we were giving away McNabb for nothing. And McNabb is doing well in LA, a week or so ago I heard he was playing on top line woth Doughty, but I didn't hear the circumstances, it may have been necessity.

I didn't want Kane and I didn't want to give up on Myers quite yet. I was willing to give Myers a few more years to figure it out. Because he was being paid like a second pair dman anyways and at worse he was that, and has the potential to be one of the better dmen in the league. I think the problem there was that he had such high expectations, and when he didn't live up to them on a terrible team, people lost patience. Anyways, Kane's reputation turned me off, and I never wanted him, so that trade was a huge overpayment to me. People always say that Stafford wouldn't be here anyways and that Lemieux wanted out too. But that fails to recognize that we could have traded those pieces, and armia too, in different deals to get value for our assets. Kane is a beast athletically, but between the ears I am not convinced yet, and I will not be surprised if or when I hear that he is a problem in some way, sometime in the not too far future, and I am sure his ego will be at the heart of the matter.

And to end with, the Lehner trade, imo, is not even debatable. It was a huge overpayment. A 21st overall draftpick for a goalie who was drafted 46th overall, who had a bad concussion, who never won the starting job with his prior organization and according to some was third on their depth chart behind Craig Anderson and Ray Emery? I think? Just ridiculous, we could have drafted the best goalie prospect in the draft with that pick, one without a concussion history. And people criticized Darcy for falling in love with "his" players.

I think Murray deserves a lot of criticism. He went all in on his trades and used up the majority of our assets for the team that you see right now. And why this makes me mad, is because he could not have had a better set-up. The Sabres were many peoples selection for the best farm system in the league. He had an abundance of extra picks, and was going to be drafting high for a few more years. And he chose to go all in on some pretty questionable trades.

There was no need to rush trades immediately, this team wasn't going to be good until all the good young players grew up a bit. We were pretty sure we would get at least Eichel in the upcoming draft and he would need a few years, All the good young dmen needed time. We could have waited for better trades or tried to add through FA. It would have been a much safer approach with less risk.

I really do think Murray hurt this team more than he helped it. And it frustrates me, because contrary to what many of you say, I do want this team to be great. And I don't see anything close to a contender even when Eichel and Reinhart grow up. And we have very little help coming, no depth defensively, a huge question mark in goal, and a lot of over the hill unproductive players. I just hope we win one of the lottery top three picks so we can fill one of the many holes on this roster.

These are my true beliefs. I am just as big a fan as any of you. I am not a troll for thinking differently than you. And insult me all you want, I wont be back to read it. But try not to get me banned by calling me names please.
- SabresPanacea

Other than Zadarov (and he isn't a given), I am not sure we will miss any of the other players that we traded away, the draft picks may or may not have turned out but I really don't see any of the players we gave up as stars in the league. I was a huge Myers supporter while he was here and defended him often but it is starting to look more and more than he isn't anything else than a 3/4 defenseman.

I think we are building in the right direction, we are just so young and everyone needs some time to play together to see if they fit.

I stayed quiet earlier about the Tim Murray subject, but i can stand it no longer.

I will admit that I was wrong about ROR. He is a very good player, better than I expected. I don't think he has a scorers touch, but he is great in every other aspect. If he did have that ability to finish I think he would be one of the best players in the league, but still, he was probably worth what we payed in the trade if not more.

BUT,

I truly believe, I am not just saying this to cause trouble or to take an opposite stance from others, I truly believe that every other trade Murray made was horrible.

The worst one, which no one ever mentions is the McNabb to LA trade. We gave up McNabb, Jonathan Parker and 2 second round picks for Deslaurier and Fasching, both bottom six prospects. Even if Deslaurier and Fasching were in this next years draft with their current age and ability, they would be second round picks at best. Furthermore, bottom six forwards play much lesser roles than a top four dman, and are much easier to find in FA than a big, offensive and physical defenseman. The trade made no sense to me, it was like we were giving away McNabb for nothing. And McNabb is doing well in LA, a week or so ago I heard he was playing on top line woth Doughty, but I didn't hear the circumstances, it may have been necessity.

I didn't want Kane and I didn't want to give up on Myers quite yet. I was willing to give Myers a few more years to figure it out. Because he was being paid like a second pair dman anyways and at worse he was that, and has the potential to be one of the better dmen in the league. I think the problem there was that he had such high expectations, and when he didn't live up to them on a terrible team, people lost patience. Anyways, Kane's reputation turned me off, and I never wanted him, so that trade was a huge overpayment to me. People always say that Stafford wouldn't be here anyways and that Lemieux wanted out too. But that fails to recognize that we could have traded those pieces, and armia too, in different deals to get value for our assets. Kane is a beast athletically, but between the ears I am not convinced yet, and I will not be surprised if or when I hear that he is a problem in some way, sometime in the not too far future, and I am sure his ego will be at the heart of the matter.

And to end with, the Lehner trade, imo, is not even debatable. It was a huge overpayment. A 21st overall draftpick for a goalie who was drafted 46th overall, who had a bad concussion, who never won the starting job with his prior organization and according to some was third on their depth chart behind Craig Anderson and Ray Emery? I think? Just ridiculous, we could have drafted the best goalie prospect in the draft with that pick, one without a concussion history. And people criticized Darcy for falling in love with "his" players.

I think Murray deserves a lot of criticism. He went all in on his trades and used up the majority of our assets for the team that you see right now. And why this makes me mad, is because he could not have had a better set-up. The Sabres were many peoples selection for the best farm system in the league. He had an abundance of extra picks, and was going to be drafting high for a few more years. And he chose to go all in on some pretty questionable trades.

There was no need to rush trades immediately, this team wasn't going to be good until all the good young players grew up a bit. We were pretty sure we would get at least Eichel in the upcoming draft and he would need a few years, All the good young dmen needed time. We could have waited for better trades or tried to add through FA. It would have been a much safer approach with less risk.

I really do think Murray hurt this team more than he helped it. And it frustrates me, because contrary to what many of you say, I do want this team to be great. And I don't see anything close to a contender even when Eichel and Reinhart grow up. And we have very little help coming, no depth defensively, a huge question mark in goal, and a lot of over the hill unproductive players. I just hope we win one of the lottery top three picks so we can fill one of the many holes on this roster.

These are my true beliefs. I am just as big a fan as any of you. I am not a troll for thinking differently than you. And insult me all you want, I wont be back to read it. But try not to get me banned by calling me names please.
- SabresPanacea

Not exactly no d depth in the cupboard. Florentino & Martin should be in Rochester next year and Guhle should get his 9 game tryout.

Not exactly no d depth in the cupboard. Florentino & Martin should be in Rochester next year and Guhle should get his 9 game tryout.
- sippyd

McNabb at the time was a tweener, too. He peobably should have had a spot on the sabres. But instead, he bounced back and forth between Rochester and the Sabres pressbox. I feel like we should have made room for him, possibly by trading someone else. But we did what we did.
We also had an entire forward roster of 3rd and 4th liners. We needed to make some trades to get some semblance of an NHL team on the ice.

One guy i think is a weird story is Ruhwhedel....what the heck happened to that guy? We tripped over our own feet to sign him, he finished the year in the NHL and now he looks like a career AHLer.

I guess I stirred the pot good today

buffalo has 2 rookie gm's and both are about to start or is in the middle of season 3

sabres on track for another top 3 pick
bills on track to miss the playoffs again


the joy of being a fan of these franchises

One guy i think is a weird story is Ruhwhedel....what the heck happened to that guy? We tripped over our own feet to sign him, he finished the year in the NHL and now he looks like a career AHLer.
- seedy

part of the reason Ruhwhedel signed with the sabres was the chance to play in the nhl right away


he has been passed over for crap, especially last year with benoit

part of the reason Ruhwhedel signed with the sabres was the chance to play in the nhl right away


he has been passed over for crap, especially last year with benoit
- homiedclown

long page.

long page.
- cabin