Bishop is also 5 years older and the Sens had Anderson under contact for a while. Can't just take a look at one small part of things and say a mistake was made. They did what they thought was best at the time. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Bishop also has a tendency to get injured at times that really matter most. Obviously it's a lot of bad luck, but you can't complain that Lehner is always injured but not bring up Bishop's injury history.

Just my $.02
- HonkFortheGoose

Yes! When he was traded he wasnt the player he is now. I didnt look that crazy of a trade at the time. Lehner could easy succeed here

also went for a 1st rounder
- yen6d1

and will probably be around pick 21


realistic comparison

I don't think anyone would fire Murray at seasons end. But I think if you look at it from a "We are much better than last year" perspective, it can be misleading.

We were intentionally bad the last 2 years. Improvement was inevitable. I think the question now becomes can we ascend to a cup contending team sooner than later. I'm not sure we will.

I think we have a couple known quantities in Eichel, O'Reilly, and Ristolainen. Which is good, but I have no clue how good Reinhart will end up being, I have no clue if we have a #1 goalie, a solid 3 defensemen behind Risto, enough goal scoring etc.

With the amount of moves made by Murray, and what he gave up, I wish we had more answers than questions
- sbroads24

Are we really suppose to know all the answers to those questions though, a mere 1 year into the rebuild?

Look, it took 2 years for the tear-down, and this is really the first season of putting the pieces together, and in reality they may very well not all fit in together, but for me at least that's what this season is all about, figuring out which pieces really are the core and going about building around them. I mean, simply assembling pure talent does not always work, look no further than Edmonton, nobody would argue there is an amazing amount of pure talent on that team, but for whatever reason it just isn't working for them.

I think we have a very solid core in Pysk, McCabe, Rasmus, Eichel, Kane, and ROR.....throw in complementary talents of Bogo, Girgs, and Ennis and then we see if the rest of the guys fit in or not. That probably means come seasons end, we'll see a few guys traded.

and will probably be around pick 21


realistic comparison
- homiedclown

I get Lehners hurt but if he comes back and puts up martin jones numbers or better it wont be as tragic

and will probably be around pick 21


realistic comparison
- homiedclown

Our cupboard is bare,not a lot of assets on the farm or i system . We have half of our roster that should not be in NHL .
Gionta,legwand,deslauriers,cal Oreilly,foligno,Larsson,moulson not at his salary,weber,colaiacovo,johnson and ullmark(not yet)
We had the worst team in hockey last year,with a lot better goaltending. Lehner came in the 40 pounds overweight and that trade was awful. He had goalies here last year,all he had To do was not play them. I don't see with the supposedly big moves we made ,we are stil 1 pt from last place. We are a lot farther away then people realize

Our cupboard is bare,not a lot of assets on the farm or i system . We have half of our roster that should not be in NHL .
Gionta,legwand,deslauriers,cal Oreilly,foligno,Larsson,moulson not at his salary,weber,colaiacovo,johnson and ullmark(not yet)
We had the worst team in hockey last year,with a lot better goaltending. Lehner came in the 40 pounds overweight and that trade was awful. He had goalies here last year,all he had To do was not play them. I don't see with the supposedly big moves we made ,we are stil 1 pt from last place. We are a lot farther away then people realize
- Buffalo39

We were far away at the beginning of the year and it hasnt even been 30 games..We are not the hawks and have face numerous injuries already it's not the end of the world.

Our cupboard is bare,not a lot of assets on the farm or i system . We have half of our roster that should not be in NHL .
Gionta,legwand,deslauriers,cal Oreilly,foligno,Larsson,moulson not at his salary,weber,colaiacovo,johnson and ullmark(not yet)
We had the worst team in hockey last year,with a lot better goaltending. Lehner came in the 40 pounds overweight and that trade was awful. He had goalies here last year,all he had To do was not play them. I don't see with the supposedly big moves we made ,we are stil 1 pt from last place. We are a lot farther away then people realize
- Buffalo39

What's the old boozehound up to these days? Just looking ahead to the draft?

Our cupboard is bare,not a lot of assets on the farm or i system . We have half of our roster that should not be in NHL .
Gionta,legwand,deslauriers,cal Oreilly,foligno,Larsson,moulson not at his salary,weber,colaiacovo,johnson and ullmark(not yet)
We had the worst team in hockey last year,with a lot better goaltending. Lehner came in the 40 pounds overweight and that trade was awful. He had goalies here last year,all he had To do was not play them. I don't see with the supposedly big moves we made ,we are stil 1 pt from last place. We are a lot farther away then people realize
- Buffalo39

I get it, you want a team with 4 lines all composed of top 3 talent, that's called the All Star game. Reality and a cap dictate that you're going to have some mediocre to low end talent on every team........hence lines 3 and particularly 4.

What's the old boozehound up to these days? Just looking ahead to the draft?
- Sabresfan-365

No I'm gonna watch every game this season. The draft is still a far way off.

I get Lehners hurt but if he comes back and puts up martin jones numbers or better it wont be as tragic
- yen6d1

That's a big if.

There are two schools of thought here, and both of them understand the concept that there is a rebuild.

The first is that this is a rebuild, and no matter what moves are being made, the rebuild is going to take time to be good. It's the whole "Rome wasn't built in a day" theory.

The second understands that there is a rebuild, and in order for it to be done right, you need as many pieces as possible to do it effectively. What the Sabres have done is exchanged a more than significant chunk of those pieces for players who are ready, or are at least believed to be ready, to contribute now. If you're going to do that, it's not unreasonable to expect better results than this. It's why teams that are still in a rebuild normally don't do what Murray is doing. This is very early in the process for a GM to be making these kinds of moves. And he deserves the scrutiny it comes with.

he blew up the farm getting kane, bogo, ror and bubble boy between the pipes

he got his toys in eichel and reinhart

he got his coach

he got franson, and he picked his goalies


I don't see how he gets a pass if the team is a bottom feeder for a third straight year
- homiedclown

Wouldn't it only be the 2nd full year under Murray?

I expected this year to be exactly how it has been. Could be great. Could be bad. Dependent on injuries and the biggest injury is between net. If you had a great goalie (Which we don't, injured or active) then you have more points. We need either a goalie to step up and be that guy or the defense to come together. One of those will eventually happen or Murray will be out of a job at the end of next year.

Like I said, this year the expectations are low so don't get too upset. Enjoy the ride. Fun nights where we win will be fun and stretches that we lose will suck but you have to just take this season as a freebie and say hey if we do anything that's just a bonus.

Next year things matter. Just my opinion

really, that is what we gave up for kane, ror, bogo and a bubble boy between the pipes


7 first rounders
2 31st overalls
35th overall
- homiedclown

I don't normally post, but this is bothering me

Kane 4th overall
Bogosian 3rd overall
ROR 33rd
Lehner 46th

Over the last 10 years the 21st draft pick has been

2015 Colin White - 0 games
2014 Robert Fabbri - 23 games 9 points
2013 Frederick Gauthier - 0 games
2012 Mark Jankowski - 0 games
2011 Stefan Noesen - 1game 0 points
2010 Riley Sheahen - 152 games 66 points
2009 John Moore - 257 games 49 points
2008 Anton Gustaphsson - 0 games
2007 Riley Nash - 199 games 63 points
2006 Bobby Sabguinetti - Playing in Rochester
2005 Tuuka Rask

So what exactly did TM give up?

What's the old boozehound up to these days? Just looking ahead to the draft?
- Sabresfan-365

He is wondering if tyler Ennis was with him when he was injured. Maybe they were both drunk

I don't normally post, but this is bothering me

Kane 4th overall
Bogosian 3rd overall
ROR 33rd
Lehner 46th

Over the last 10 years the 21st draft pick has been

2015 Colin White - 0 games
2014 Robert Fabbri - 23 games 9 points
2013 Frederick Gauthier - 0 games
2012 Mark Jankowski - 0 games
2011 Stefan Noesen - 1game 0 points
2010 Riley Sheahen - 152 games 66 points
2009 John Moore - 257 games 49 points
2008 Anton Gustaphsson - 0 games
2007 Riley Nash - 199 games 63 points
2006 Bobby Sabguinetti - Playing in Rochester
2005 Tuuka Rask

So what exactly did TM give up?
- 13Vision

This is a straw man argument. The 21st pick could have been used to move up. It could have been used to get a different player.

The 8th pick in the draft also has a bad history, and Risto is just fine.

I don't normally post, but this is bothering me

Kane 4th overall
Bogosian 3rd overall
ROR 33rd
Lehner 46th

Over the last 10 years the 21st draft pick has been

2015 Colin White - 0 games
2014 Robert Fabbri - 23 games 9 points
2013 Frederick Gauthier - 0 games
2012 Mark Jankowski - 0 games
2011 Stefan Noesen - 1game 0 points
2010 Riley Sheahen - 152 games 66 points
2009 John Moore - 257 games 49 points
2008 Anton Gustaphsson - 0 games
2007 Riley Nash - 199 games 63 points
2006 Bobby Sabguinetti - Playing in Rochester
2005 Tuuka Rask

So what exactly did TM give up?
- 13Vision

First off,it wasn't about the player we lost at 21st,it was the asset that could of been used as a package. Secondly, don't let your heart get in the way of your decisions. If he'd did his due diligence on lehner, he would of known he turned into a fat slob who was coming back from a concussion. He was 40 pounds overweight when he was injured. How do you trade for him,knowing all this

Are we really suppose to know all the answers to those questions though, a mere 1 year into the rebuild?

Look, it took 2 years for the tear-down, and this is really the first season of putting the pieces together, and in reality they may very well not all fit in together, but for me at least that's what this season is all about, figuring out which pieces really are the core and going about building around them. I mean, simply assembling pure talent does not always work, look no further than Edmonton, nobody would argue there is an amazing amount of pure talent on that team, but for whatever reason it just isn't working for them.

I think we have a very solid core in Pysk, McCabe, Rasmus, Eichel, Kane, and ROR.....throw in complementary talents of Bogo, Girgs, and Ennis and then we see if the rest of the guys fit in or not. That probably means come seasons end, we'll see a few guys traded.
- nikel

This. Playoffs would be amazing, but this season is about building. If they came out and dominated teams and went on 6 game win streaks and were leading the division, yeah that'd be incredible. But I don't think that should be the goal. Same with 3 game win streaks and being 8th. Playoffs should be the stretch goal, and seeing players do better should be the main. At that, I think we're excelling. The top line talent has done better than it did last year. Your top 3 scorers weren't on the team last year in ROR, Eichel, and Reinhart (Risto, btw, has 7 goals. 8 was his mark last year in 78 games).

That's a big if.

There are two schools of thought here, and both of them understand the concept that there is a rebuild.

The first is that this is a rebuild, and no matter what moves are being made, the rebuild is going to take time to be good. It's the whole "Rome wasn't built in a day" theory.

The second understands that there is a rebuild, and in order for it to be done right, you need as many pieces as possible to do it effectively. What the Sabres have done is exchanged a more than significant chunk of those pieces for players who are ready, or are at least believed to be ready, to contribute now. If you're going to do that, it's not unreasonable to expect better results than this. It's why teams that are still in a rebuild normally don't do what Murray is doing. This is very early in the process for a GM to be making these kinds of moves. And he deserves the scrutiny it comes with.
- buffalofan19

All good points. My only thing regarding part 2 is that not all those players have been able to contribute now have been healthy together. Yes, i understand some have an injury history, but no one expect chad johnson to play this many games in the first quarter of a season. But i honestly believe the moves he has made have made this team better.
This team was one of the worst ever last year and if you look at the standings one more win could put them at the 21-22 range.

This is a straw man argument. The 21st pick could have been used to move up. It could have been used to get a different player.

The 8th pick in the draft also has a bad history, and Risto is just fine.
- sbroads24

Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with this. That 1st round pick is like 100 dollars. You can look around and say "Hey they're not buying anything with that money" but to us, that 100 was important and could have been used on something nice.

I'm not as upset with the Lehner trade as I was when it happened, but I really hope he'll come back and be that #1 guy otherwise it could become our achillies heel

That's a big if.

There are two schools of thought here, and both of them understand the concept that there is a rebuild.

The first is that this is a rebuild, and no matter what moves are being made, the rebuild is going to take time to be good. It's the whole "Rome wasn't built in a day" theory.

The second understands that there is a rebuild, and in order for it to be done right, you need as many pieces as possible to do it effectively. What the Sabres have done is exchanged a more than significant chunk of those pieces for players who are ready, or are at least believed to be ready, to contribute now. If you're going to do that, it's not unreasonable to expect better results than this. It's why teams that are still in a rebuild normally don't do what Murray is doing. This is very early in the process for a GM to be making these kinds of moves. And he deserves the scrutiny it comes with.
- buffalofan19

That's one side of it. He comes from a scouting background where he made is name through the draft. So as much is it may be about speeding up the rebuild, can't help but wonder he made those moves simply because he had no faith in those assets. Make as much lemonade out of it as he could (if that makes any sense).

That's one side of it. He comes from a scouting background where he made is name through the draft. So as much is it may be about speeding up the rebuild, can't help but wonder he made those moves simply because he had no faith in those assets. Make as much lemonade out of it as he could (if that makes any sense).
- Sabresfan-365

Rightly or wrongly he felt that those assets were never going to pan out or they were easily replaced with others we have in the system. Murray may turn out to be a horrible choice for a GM but I'm not willing to make a decision on it after 30 games. This team was embarrassingly bad over the past two years and it will take time to fix that. Have all his moves been good, not but I also dont' think any have been show stoppers that would put a rebuild at risk.

That's one side of it. He comes from a scouting background where he made is name through the draft. So as much is it may be about speeding up the rebuild, can't help but wonder he made those moves simply because he had no faith in those assets. Make as much lemonade out of it as he could (if that makes any sense).
- Sabresfan-365

IMO he was dead set on getting O'Reilly, Kane and Lehner the moment he got this job, he basically said so previously. Cost didn't matter to him.

Rightly or wrongly he felt that those assets were never going to pan out or they were easily replaced with others we have in the system. Murray may turn out to be a horrible choice for a GM but I'm not willing to make a decision on it after 30 games. This team was embarrassingly bad over the past two years and it will take time to fix that. Have all his moves been good, not but I also dont' think any have been show stoppers that would put a rebuild at risk.
- BigStew

He got good players. Whether or not they can be key parts on a cup team remain to be seen

He got good players. Whether or not they can be key parts on a cup team remain to be seen
- sbroads24

Agreed, what we need is a little luck thrown in. Every cup team seems to have 2 or 3 guys that no one ever predicted would play major roles in teams winning.

Agreed, what we need is a little luck thrown in. Every cup team seems to have 2 or 3 guys that no one ever predicted would play major roles in teams winning.
- BigStew

Exactly, and the more picks/prospects you have, the odds increase on hitting on a few of them

Exactly, and the more picks/prospects you have, the odds increase on hitting on a few of them
- sbroads24

I am not sure our prospect pool is bare like some have suggested and I also don't think the unexpected players need to come via the draft. We can't be horrible forever, players/prospects needed to be moved to actually try and get better. Was that to soon, only time will tell.

There is also going to be some teams in a world of hurt on the cap when the Canadian dollar hits 65c and stays there forever. Thankfully, we are not one of them.