Might need to check that. While Fowler will be 26, he'll be an 8 year pro. I think UFA status is 27 years OR 7 years pro.
- quackup

Why is Bieksa in the top pairing?
What do you think a realistic offer for Vatanen is?

Hahahahahahahahahaah, no no no no. Bennet and Innis are pretty much a wash and we are not trading a young, former CHL defenseman of the year for a 38 year old career bottom pairing Scuderi clone. AND YOU WANT A FIRST AS WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow, that would be embarrassing.
- Dcoms

Not really sure how someone who regularly hovers around 30-40 points is considered a wash with someone who's never put up more than 20 in a season.. Ennis is a huge improvement over Bennett.. and thats pretty easy to see IMO.

I think you have Sammy levels of pessimism on Lovejoy. He's not great at anything, but he's not a liability either. He's fine as 4/5D.
- jfkst1

Hey you're more Sammy than I will ever be. Lovejoy brings nothing to the table and should be upgraded to someone who can stay with their man and who can actually knock someone over.

...the (frank)? That is some TML-level overvaluing of players.

How about Crosby and Malkin for a 4th while we're at it?
- jmatchett383

Both of those prospects have proved nothing in the NHL. Both sabres players are under cheap contract. Ennis would be their best foward besides their top three. Franson would be their second pp behind Letang and play on the second unit.

Not really sure how someone who regularly hovers around 30-40 points is considered a wash with someone who's never put up more than 20 in a season.. Ennis is a huge improvement over Bennett.. and thats pretty easy to see IMO.
- j.boyd919

At first he Gorges as the defenseman not Franson, neither of those 2 gets you Pouliot and Innis is better than Bennet now but not enough to make losing Pouliot for 1 of those 2 worth it and then the 1st round pick was a slap in the face.

The trade for fowler would take alot more then hornquist. How about trade with the sabres.

Pits get Franson, Tyler Ennis and Sabres 3rd

For

Buffalo gets Beau Bennett, Derrick Pouliot and pits first

Pits gets top four dman and highly skilled foward who has lead our team in points with no help past years.

Sabres get high level prospects that are close or ready to play in the nhl and pick/prospects they can use to get fowler. Sabres have been talking about getting fowler all year.
- hanleyaj

Change Franson to Bogosian and we're talking.

Not really sure how someone who regularly hovers around 30-40 points is considered a wash with someone who's never put up more than 20 in a season.. Ennis is a huge improvement over Bennett.. and thats pretty easy to see IMO.
- j.boyd919

Even prorating it, Bennet has 41 points in 117 games. In Ennis' first 3 seasons, he had 82 points in 140 games. Ennis is an improvement, but probably not enough to get Bennett, Pouliot, and a 1st, even when packaged with the most overrated defenseman in the league and a 3rd.

Got news for you, the forwards don't match the system either. This Pens team is NOT equipped to play a slow paced fall back and collapse down low system almost anywhere in the lineup. They are bottom 10 in every defensive stat, bottom 15 in most offensive stats, and top 5 in most goaltending stats. Making sweeping system changes can only improve this team.
- jfkst1

Got news for you, the forwards are a perfect match for the system MJ runs which is not a slow paced fall back and collapse down low system, he's tweaked his system to match the defenseman he has to work with on the backend that don't fit the system he typically runs. MJ's system is what we saw at the beginning of last season focusing on supported quick breakouts with the defenseman being options in the breakout, it's a very fast paced system that plays defense through controling the play on the offensive end. Bring Martin & Ehrhoff back and you'd see the system run in it's true form and you would see a completely different team. Changing the personal on the backend will have a greater impact on improvement that changing the coach will with the same personal.

Sabres are looking for NHL ready players now. They are ready to compete now and not looking for prospects anymore.
- hanleyaj

If that's the case, Perron and a 4th for Franson

Both of those prospects have proved nothing in the NHL. Both sabres players are under cheap contract. Ennis would be their best foward besides their top three. Franson would be their second pp behind Letang and play on the second unit.
- hanleyaj

Ennis and Franson have both plateaued and Franson is not better than Dumoulin or Maatta so he would barely be in the top 4. Still a big pass on this deal

Both of those prospects have proved nothing in the NHL. Both sabres players are under cheap contract. Ennis would be their best foward besides their top three. Franson would be their second pp behind Letang and play on the second unit.
- hanleyaj

By that logic, you should have traded Eichel (a prospect who had proven nothing in the NHL) for Eric Fehr (proven, on a relatively cheap contract) back in September. Pouliot has a chance to be a very good top-3, maybe top-2, defenseman. And you want a 1st as well (does Pittsburgh have 1?)??? No thanks.

Got news for you, the forwards are a perfect match for the system MJ runs which is not a slow paced fall back and collapse down low system, he's tweaked his system to match the defenseman he has to work with on the backend that don't fit the system he typically runs. MJ's system is what we saw at the beginning of last season focusing on supported quick breakouts with the defenseman being options in the breakout, it's a very fast paced system that plays defense through controling the play on the offensive end. Bring Martin & Ehrhoff back and you'd see the system run in it's true form and you would see a completely different team. Changing the personal on the backend will have a greater impact on improvement that changing the coach will with the same personal.
- jaydogg1974

I agree with this, upgrading Scuderi and Lovejoy would make a huge improvement to this system. getting some speed and size to replace them would make a huge difference.

At first he Gorges as the defenseman not Franson, neither of those 2 gets you Pouliot and Innis is better than Bennet now but not enough to make losing Pouliot for 1 of those 2 worth it and then the 1st round pick was a slap in the face.
- Dcoms

Ennis scored almost 50 points and 20+ goals past to years on the two lowest scoring teams in nhl history. He has had no help. He is only 26 and is a very promising young player. Beau Bennett hasnt played more then 60 games in nhl and is already 24. He will never be the player ennis is or will be and it isnt even close.

If that's the case, Perron and a 4th for Franson
- cap1681

God no...

Why is Bieksa in the top pairing?
What do you think a realistic offer for Vatanen is?
- jfkst1

Hopefully the Bieksa situation will change when Despres returns. Him being out has really messed up the D pairings and resulted in way more minutes for Bieksa than he needs.

As for Vatanen, I don't see them letting him go right now. Only Perry has more goals this year and he is 3rd on the team w/ points. Seems like trading him away would be a spectacularly bad move for a Ducks team desperate for scoring of any sort

Is it safe to say that HCMJ is staying until at least Jan 1, so that the Pens don't have to give up a pick to get someone else who is under contract?

Did he not singlehandedly win the game in Johnstown in the offseason against Tamps full complement of players? I'm pretty sure he did, and he looked great doing it. He robbed Stamkos point blank. It would take something crazy good for me to even think about parting with Murray or Jarry at this point. and we still have Maguire coming up through college who looks like the real deal.

You would really be the guy that traded Mathew Murray for Carl Gunnarson? That would go donw in history as bad, bad, bad.
- Dcoms

Not sure where I ever said I would trade him for Carl Gunnarson, I'm pretty sure I specifically said I would only move him if someone similar to yourself overvalued him because of his irrelevant AHL numbers. I'm also not the one who is willing to call a guy a franchise goalie because of 1 preseason game and 1 big save in that game.

You were probably that guy that thought the Rangers should have traded Lundqvist because Talbot played a handful of game where he looked like a franchise goalie.

By that logic, you should have traded Eichel (a prospect who had proven nothing in the NHL) for Eric Fehr (proven, on a relatively cheap contract) back in September. Pouliot has a chance to be a very good top-3, maybe top-2, defenseman. And you want a 1st as well (does Pittsburgh have 1?)??? No thanks.
- jmatchett383

Beau Bennett is already 24 and played multiple years in NHL with players like Crosby and Malkin. If you can not put up points with them then u prolly not going to make it. Ennis put up 50 points with Gionta and Desauries last year. one is 40 and the other was rookie 4th liner.

God no...
- Victoro311

Why not. An underachieving forward for an underachieving defenseman. Pens also get half a mil in cap space

Ennis scored almost 50 points and 20+ goals past to years on the two lowest scoring teams in nhl history. He has had no help. He is only 26 and is a very promising young player. Beau Bennett hasnt played more then 60 games in nhl and is already 24. He will never be the player ennis is or will be and it isnt even close.
- hanleyaj

26 isn't young. 18-23 would be considered a promising young player. 26 is a grown ass man.

I don't want pens to sacrifice the future for this year... we might not even make playoffs. Which means TO doesn't get our 1st...

Hopefully the Bieksa situation will change when Despres returns. Him being out has really messed up the D pairings and resulted in way more minutes for Bieksa than he needs.

As for Vatanen, I don't see them letting him go right now. Only Perry has more goals this year and he is 3rd on the team w/ points. Seems like trading him away would be a spectacularly bad move for a Ducks team desperate for scoring of any sort
- Random35

Depres has been pretty solid for you guys then eh?

Got news for you, the forwards are a perfect match for the system MJ runs which is not a slow paced fall back and collapse down low system, he's tweaked his system to match the defenseman he has to work with on the backend that don't fit the system he typically runs. MJ's system is what we saw at the beginning of last season focusing on supported quick breakouts with the defenseman being options in the breakout, it's a very fast paced system that plays defense through controling the play on the offensive end. Bring Martin & Ehrhoff back and you'd see the system run in it's true form and you would see a completely different team. Changing the personal on the backend will have a greater impact on improvement that changing the coach will with the same personal.
- jaydogg1974

Well for one, there are more capable PMD at his disposal that he chooses not to play.
Secondly, these tweaks are making everyone perform at career lows- not just the dmen. So while he might have avoided the iceberg straight ahead, he has crashed headfirst into another one. If Johnston's system requires a top 5 blue line like he had last season, then he isn't a good coach.
Thirdly, one different dman is not going to be nearly enough to have dramatically alter the team's system.

I think you have Sammy levels of pessimism on Lovejoy. He's not great at anything, but he's not a liability either. He's fine as 4/5D.
- jfkst1

Lovejoy is fine for a 5/6 dman. Problem is the pens have Lovejoy, Scuds, Cole as that level of a player, and really only 1 top pairing guy but he's hurt all the time and playing like a 5/6 guy as well as Maata. If I want a 5/6 guy Id rather him be like 23 than 33. Either way Lovejoy is gone after this year.

Beau Bennett is already 24 and played multiple years in NHL with players like Crosby and Malkin. If you can not put up points with them then u prolly not going to make it. Ennis put up 50 points with Gionta and Desauries last year. one is 40 and the other was rookie 4th liner.
- hanleyaj

can someone tell this chump that bennet doesnt get to play with crosby or malkin