I've liked Garbutt's game. He has been flying around the ice, hitting, making simple plays, and has at least 4-5 PRIMETIME looks at the net but hasn't found the twine...I don't get the Garbutt hate. I thought Tikhonov looked slow last game and I have disliked Desjardans' game more than Garbutt's.
- EnzoD

Desjardins, Garbutt, Tikhonov, Bickell, Mashinter, Paille - all bottom of the roster wingers with little or no capability to provide offence. Way too many of those types playing in the Hawks system.

Guy can handle the puck and skate, no doubt. Take away those extra inches on his catching glove, the inches in the length of his pads to where the stick has to cover the 5 hole pulling that right shoulder down opening space up top, the extra inches on the width of those shoulder pads, the size of the jersey and puffy pants and there is a lot more to shoot at when a guy his playing the sport on his knees.

Force these guys to play the sport on their feet and if not the blocking style will cover less, meaning more goals. Guys who can play the sport on their feet will pull closer/ahead of guys who can only block.
- Mr Ricochet

I am with you on the really big jerseys and extra padding sticking up over the shoulder. Those can be taken out for sure and not cause protection issues.

But we know q-speak. It could mean he could play for team he is traded for vs. NJD.
- powerenforcer

Hopefully Q is right about TT being able to play tomorrow and hopefully the 3rd line will be the way it was in practice today because that means TT is back on RW and hopefully the experiment to move TT to LW is over.

Dano is still playing out of position, but at least he's been kept at LW, both here and in Rockford so maybe he's getting to a comfort point. Kero has shown a nice scoring touch (in Rockford) so maybe TT has one or two people capable of finishing on his line.

Note in that picture that Pang's pads are WIDER than Bishop's. Pad height is much more of a goal deterrent than width imho. Give a goalie 1 inch above the top of his knee.
- stljam

Because tall pads over lap when in the butterfly covering the 5 hole. If they don't, like when Pang played, the stick has to cover the 5 hole opening up space up top and the 7 or 9 hole depending if he's righty or lefty.

Agreed......

IDK about "low skill blobs goalies" but I do know that its a matter of simple math. the puck is the same size and the goal is the same size but the goalie pads are 5x as large. Its pretty straightforward, IMO. Obviously we need to continute providing the essentials for protection on the human body, but minimizing the extra width and length that the chest, leg, blocker and glove pads gives a goalie seems like something only a goalie would be opposed to
- EnzoD

Yeah, reducing the size of the pads may make a difference, but the issue at hand is not just about the actual size of the equipment. With modern day materials, not only is the equipment larger, but it is much, much lighter. That allows goalies to react quicker also.

Put the heavier pads on and see how quick they move. Heck the blocker and catcher are bigger now also, but another huge factor is the size of the Combo and the Jersey's, big squared off combos and jerseys with bat wings. Heck, the league dictates whether a skater can tuck in his jersey or not, you can force the goalies to wear "normal" sized jerseys.

I am sure me being a goalie has something to do with it, yes.



Pads are not 5 times as large. Maybe I push back at the thought of reducing the goalie equipment because the arguement is always exaggerated. 5 times, Bishop vs Pang, etc.
- carcus

I am confident that there is advanced protective equipment that can mirror the dimensions of 1980s goalie pads while having the impact protection that is needed. In 1980 I don't doubt goalies were taking a beating with the puck and subpar protection. I truly believe the technology exists to substantially decrease goalie pad with/length in the glove, blocker, leg pads and chest protector....all while still providing adequate protection for you crazy SOBs that stand in front of 90mph frozen rubber!

How is McNeil viewed around the league? Do some Pro Scouts still view him as a potential 2nd line player? A projected middle six power forward that can kill penalties, play some C and has 1st round skill should have good value in a trade package...right?!
- EnzoD

Potential doesn't get you much.
If McNeill is traded at this point it is a throw in, a second chance.

The team receiving his contract will simply be singing the same chorus as the Hawks:

We need to see better push, punch and offensive play inside the fast pace game.

- stljam

I don't see much of a difference in the leg pads.

Chest protector is the biggest difference, with the glove probably being the next one.

There is a reason though why they didn't have a lot of protection before on their chests......stick blades weren't curved and most shots were along the ice. Also why it wasn't as big of a deal that they didn't have a mask.

The game has changed quite a bit from the game that was being played when a goalie was that unprotected. Goalies today wouldn't last 1 season with similar pads.

The real issue is every club in the league sees the same thing the Hawks are seeing by now. Not saying McNeill won't be an NHL player of some use at some point....But his trade value is minimal.
- Al

Boy, Al, I didn't read this before I posted my answer but, great minds think alike...

Desjardins, Garbutt, Tikhonov, Bickell, Mashinter, Paille - all bottom of the roster wingers with little or no capability to provide offence. Way too many of those types playing in the Hawks system.
- RickJ

I agree completely and that is why Shaw, TT/Dano, Kero/AHL 3C of the week and Kruger are the ones who are supposed to be supplying bottom 6 depth scoring. Kruger & Shaw are not producing nearly enough to have a balanced scoring attack. That needs to change.

I don't see much of a difference in the leg pads.

Chest protector is the biggest difference, with the glove probably being the next one.

There is a reason though why they didn't have a lot of protection before on their chests......stick blades weren't curved and most shots were along the ice. Also why it wasn't as big of a deal that they didn't have a mask.

The game has changed quite a bit from the game that was being played when a goalie was that unprotected. Goalies today wouldn't last 1 season with similar pads.
- carcus

Big difference in the weight, and the new pads are taller. Catcher/Cheater and Blocker are bigger now also.

I don't see much of a difference in the leg pads.

Chest protector is the biggest difference, with the glove probably being the next one.

- carcus

The gloves now are like beach balls in comparison.

Potential doesn't get you much.
If McNeill is traded at this point it is a throw in, a second chance.

The team receiving his contract will simply be singing the same chorus as the Hawks:

We need to see better push, punch and offensive play inside the fast pace game.
- wiz1901

Thanks Wiz and Al! I was just thinking that bc he hasn't even been given a long look in the show, a GM might take a risk and view it as the organizational forward depth in Chicago as a reason he hasn't made the jump yet...rather than the more likely scenario...he just isn't that good.....

Here is a 6'4 goalie. Tell me there isn't an equipment size difference across the board.

IIRC McNeill was thought to be the most NHL ready of forwards drafted that year.

Ran across this at Sportsnet and agree 100% with Spector that the greatest position in all of sport is being taken over by 6ft 5in guys with barely any NHL talent: Why it’s time to call NHL goaltenders’ bluff http://www.sportsnet.ca/h...ll-nhl-goaltenders-bluff/
- Mr Ricochet

That sounds like a misinterpretation.

McNeil had the man's body, physicality, and plenty big muscles...but not a NHL game.

Pang doesn't even reach Bishop's shoulders.

Compare two goalies the exact same height.
- carcus

To think the Blues trade Bishop for Tommy Vanelli

Big difference in the weight, and the new pads are taller. Catcher/Cheater and Blocker are bigger now also.
- TheTrob

Huge difference in weight in all the equipment. When Tony O played it was pure leather that absorbed the water, things felt like 30 pounds in the 3rd period. Same with the gloves and skates for that matter........Anyone who goes back a few decades remembers goalies constantly adjusting the leg pads cuz they would "swivel/turn" off square. Never, ever see that the last 15-20 years.

The chest/arms protector too it absorbed sweat and sagged exposing your collar bone. After the mask it is the newer, lighter, safer chest protector that allowed the goalie to squat under the crossbar, play much much lower without fear of taking one off the collar bone.

I'm ok with the light equipment. Makes for a helluv an athletic goalie, quick and quick to recover it's the size of the stuff I think needs reduced.

That sounds like a misinterpretation.

McNeil had the man's body, physicality, and plenty big muscles...but not a NHL game.
- wiz1901

Ok Wiz, a misrepresentation.

Me either, but we all have our whipping boys. We need MORE from a lot of guys, especially Desi, but he's a good pro and gives a good effort most nights. Hopefully some modest production will come eventually.
- philco28

I like both Desi and Garbutt but the facts are facts:

Desi needs to score some, and Garbutt uses every opportunity to get in a very different level of cheap shot, maybe even a tad more snake in grass than Shawzie.

All three gotta score to, because we need it.

Mashinter gets a look as a reward and who knows maybe he gets some room for his 'mates and if he scores he gets some prop b/c the guys mentioned above aren't scoring...

Huge difference in weight in all the equipment. When Tony O played it was pure leather that absorbed the water, things felt like 30 pounds in the 3rd period. Same with the gloves and skates for that matter........Anyone who goes back a few decades remembers goalies constantly adjusting the leg pads cuz they would "swivel/turn" off square. Never, ever see that the last 15-20 years.

The chest/arms protector too it absorbed sweat and sagged exposing your collar bone. After the mask it is the newer, lighter, safer chest protector that allowed the goalie to squat under the crossbar, play much much lower without fear of taking one off the collar bone.

I'm ok with the light equipment. Makes for a helluv an athletic goalie, quick and quick to recover it's the size of the stuff I think needs reduced.
- Mr Ricochet

I'm not railing against the light equipment. Just pointing out that you are allowing the athletic goalies to not only take advantage of lighter, but also bigger stuff.

Ok Wiz, a misrepresentation.
- Mr Ricochet

LOL go look at the guys in my first post...

I gotta think
Gabriel Landeskog

and if you mean centre,
Mika Zibanejad.


and Ryan Strome and big Sean Couturier are on opposite ends of the tools, but they too were always considered closer based on the skill sets...

Desjardins, Garbutt, Tikhonov, Bickell, Mashinter, Paille - all bottom of the roster wingers with little or no capability to provide offence. Way too many of those types playing in the Hawks system.
- RickJ

Agreed. Then you've got guys like Shaw, Hartman, Kruger, etc. in the next tier. Sometihng has to give here.

To think the Blues trade Bishop for Tommy Vanelli
- waitforawhistle

Don't remind me.

We were going to lose him for nothing as he was going to become a UFA at year end and we already committed to Elliott as he was having a great year.

It was a mistake, but understandable as Bishop didn't show anything that he was going to be an NHL goalie until it was too late for the Blues.

I like both Desi and Garbutt but the facts are facts:

Desi needs to score some, and Garbutt uses every opportunity to get in a very different level of cheap shot, maybe even a tad more snake in grass than Shawzie.

All three gotta score to, because we need it.

Mashinter gets a look as a reward and who knows maybe he gets some room for his 'mates and if he scores he gets some prop b/c the guys mentioned above aren't scoring...
- wiz1901

It's either a reward for Mashinter, a bit of a wake up for the guys not producing, a motivator and message for guys in Rockford. Maybe all of the above. I think he is good "organizational depth", but really not an NHL caliber player.