I question the evaluation of talent and/or people being the right pieces.
Trying to lose purposely- no, not Buffalo here, but maybe they are not as bright as they have sold themselves to be ( GM/Staff/ Pro Scouts)
- Steelmanpa

I think that is fair, based on the results. My only point is that they're not trying to create the culture that you alluded to. There is some un-explainable virus that affects this team, and has been present under numerous coaches.

The question is whether or not buying Vinny out does anything to further the Flyers chances THIS year of WINNING the cup......clearly it's wont change those odd's....by buying him out sooner it hurts for longer....longer when this team might have a chance to get better.
- landros 2

The decision has absolutely nothing to do with the Flyers chances of winning the cup this year. They wouldn't buy him out until the buyout window in June.

I'm done arguing this...I will leave it at this:

Player A: 2016 - 4.5 mill 2017 - 4.5 mill
Player B: 2016 - 2.92 mill 2017 - 2.42 mill 2018 - 917k 2019 - 917k

Say whatever you want about not being competitive until 2018, but we will have enough guys on ELCs and bridge contracts plus its far enough in advance that the 917k will not hurt us. I think Player B has the more attractive contract to this team.

Personally I see no way Vinny stays beyond this year. However it happens it will happen. They can't send him down, can't play him in the NHL, and this situation is just poison for everyone. Even having him on the team to do nothing isn't great for team morale. A buyout is burdensome...but not overly so. The years where he would've been off the cap are in the 900ks both years. That's a minor inconvenience. Flyers have a ton of ELCs that will be on the team in the next year or so. If Vinny was not bought out this summer, and this same awful situation played out next year, I could see the impetus for retiring gone.

Having said this, I bet Hexy plays chicken and tells him next year will be this year redux and there's no buyout impending. I also don't doubt he might be the one to be the chicken in the end.
- Mononoke

In my opinion, Hextall would be foolish to buyout Lecavalier next Summer.

In my opinion, Hextall would be foolish to buyout Lecavalier next Summer.
- MJL

In my opinion, you are foolish to believe that.

Thanks for keeping me busy today. Lets do it again on Monday...its the weekend!

The decision has absolutely nothing to do with the Flyers chances of winning the cup this year. They wouldn't buy him out until the buyout window in June.

I'm done arguing this...I will leave it at this:

Player A: 2016 - 4.5 mill 2017 - 4.5 mill
Player B: 2016 - 2.92 mill 2017 - 2.42 mill 2018 - 917k 2019 - 917k

Say whatever you want about not being competitive until 2018, but we will have enough guys on ELCs and bridge contracts plus its far enough in advance that the 917k will not hurt us. I think Player B has the more attractive contract to this team.
- YuenglingJagr

Stating that it will not hurt the team is wrong, it will. Carrying dead cap space hurts a team, and limits flexibility. It's just a question of how much.

Plus I think the equation for player A is: 2016 4.5M 2017 0

In my opinion, you are foolish to believe that.

Thanks for keeping me busy today. Lets do it again on Monday...its the weekend!
- YuenglingJagr

That's okay, the only issue is that you haven't made a case of why it is foolish.

That's okay, the only issue is that you haven't made a case of why it is foolish.
- MJL

He has. You just don't agree. Is what it is. Let's just all join hands and sing "Kumbaya" as we wish Vinny off this team.

He has. You just don't agree. Is what it is. Let's just all join hands and sing "Kumbaya" as we wish Vinny off this team.
- Mononoke

If making a case is stating that dead cap space will not hurt the team, then I beg to differ. I think the Lecavalier situation will play itself out.

Stating that it will not hurt the team is wrong, it will. Carrying dead cap space hurts a team, and limits flexibility. It's just a question of how much.

Plus I think the equation for player A is: 2016 4.5M 2017 0
- MJL

How does a 4.5 million dollar cap hit for a completely useless player on your team not limit flexibility more. I am not even going to acknowledge the 0 mill in 2017 thing, and I have provided reasons. Whether you choose to read them is another story.

I have said all along that I am discussing this under the premise that the current contracts play out. Anything else is just a waste of time. Yeah if Streit and Read are traded and they go into next season with 8 million in cap space, of course buying out Vinny is stupid. But if they dont trade them and they need a way to get under the cap, it is a quick and easy solution that helps the team.

You kept arguing today that they shouldn't buy him out cause they wont need cap space next season, but who is going to be on the team in 2018 and 2019 that causes us to need 917k in cap space his buyout will take up? I just dont see it.

I think that is fair, based on the results. My only point is that they're not trying to create the culture that you alluded to. There is some un-explainable virus that affects this team, and has been present under numerous coaches.
- MJL

I still think the cap clearing deals to date have been admirable and stockpiling of picks.
The other poster said boring would lose him.I can't call this team interesting unless you are a sports psychiatrist or a masochist.

Virus perhaps more related to a culture of players being entitled at ahl and nhl level before it is earned.people not going to games and making the arena look like Monday night at a Devils game where you can clearly see the fabric threads is a better message. How many losing seasons before Lv wears out its newness charm

You guys might have seen this already but it's too good not to post again. Here's our former captain playing pranks. Man could we use him now.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/h...berg-pranks-swedish-team/

If making a case is stating that dead cap space will not hurt the team, then I beg to differ. I think the Lecavalier situation will play itself out.
- MJL

How does a 4.5 million dollar cap hit for a completely useless player on your team not limit flexibility more. I am not even going to acknowledge the 0 mill in 2017 thing, and I have provided reasons. Whether you choose to read them is another story.

I have said all along that I am discussing this under the premise that the current contracts play out. Anything else is just a waste of time. Yeah if Streit and Read are traded and they go into next season with 8 million in cap space, of course buying out Vinny is stupid. But if they dont trade them and they need a way to get under the cap, it is a quick and easy solution that helps the team.

You kept arguing today that they shouldn't buy him out cause they wont need cap space next season, but who is going to be on the team in 2018 and 2019 that causes us to need 917k in cap space his buyout will take up? I just dont see it.
- YuenglingJagr

It certainly limits it more for the 16/17 season, but that's only for one year, and then you're done with it. Your scenario the Flyers are hindered by the contract for 4 more years, and "guarantees" the last year of Lecavalier's deal. It's been widely reported by extremely reliable sources that Lecavalier has never had any intention of playing the final year of his deal, and it was only placed in the contract at the Flyers request. If you want to ignore that piece of information, that's fine, but it's out there.
Are seriously asking me to to tell you who the Flyers might be interested in pursuing in 2018 and 2019? The only thing that matters is understanding and admitting that having dead cap space will hinder the Flyers from signing players, and that having dead cap space, even if it is only 917K is not as good as not having any dead cap space, and gives the team more flexibility to pursue players. The Flyers are not expected to contend, and can deal with carrying Lecavalier another season, because they should be moving veterans anyway, if they don't have a good season. Future years is when the flexibility is far more important, because the Flyers may be looking at adding a piece or two, to make a final push. They won't be, or shouldn't be looking to do that next off season.

Say whatever you want about not being competitive until 2018, but we will have enough guys on ELCs and bridge contracts plus its far enough in advance that the 917k will not hurt us. I think Player B has the more attractive contract to this team.
- YuenglingJagr

Which is worse... slipping on a big ass banana peel during your practice lap or a small one when you're running the Olympic 100-meter for real?

I still think the cap clearing deals to date have been admirable and stockpiling of picks.
The other poster said boring would lose him.I can't call this team interesting unless you are a sports psychiatrist or a masochist.

Virus perhaps more related to a culture of players being entitled at ahl and nhl level before it is earned.people not going to games and making the arena look like Monday night at a Devils game where you can clearly see the fabric threads is a better message. How many losing seasons before Lv wears out its newness charm
- Steelmanpa

I'm not looking at it from the perspective of fan attendance. Not worried about that. When I mention a virus, I'm talking about the flip of a switch to uninspired play which snowballs into bad habits, hesitation, and confidence issues. Instead of the good habits and strong play that they started the season with snowballing, and continuing.

Which is worse... slipping on a big ass banana peel during your practice lap or a small one when you're running the Olympic 100-meter for real?
- Tomahawk

Nice!

I'm not looking at it from the perspective of fan attendance. Not worried about that. When I mention a virus, I'm talking about the flip of a switch to uninspired play which snowballs into bad habits, hesitation, and confidence issues. Instead of the good habits and strong play that they started the season with snowballing, and continuing.
- MJL

I was in agreement with you and was using the attendance as a fan revolt punitive thing against the teams.

Like if you ignore them it gets their attention more with empty seats and concessions not selling

I was in agreement with you and was using the attendance as a fan revolt punitive thing against the teams.

Like if you ignore them it gets their attention more with empty seats and concessions not selling
- Steelmanpa

I think the Flyers are possibly going to be younger next year, which could result in having an even weaker team. That tends to lessen attendance.

The decision has absolutely nothing to do with the Flyers chances of winning the cup this year. They wouldn't buy him out until the buyout window in June.

I'm done arguing this...I will leave it at this:

Player A: 2016 - 4.5 mill 2017 - 4.5 mill
Player B: 2016 - 2.92 mill 2017 - 2.42 mill 2018 - 917k 2019 - 917k

Say whatever you want about not being competitive until 2018, but we will have enough guys on ELCs and bridge contracts plus its far enough in advance that the 917k will not hurt us. I think Player B has the more attractive contract to this team.
- YuenglingJagr

Didn't realize it was an argument....just an observation.

Which is worse... slipping on a big ass banana peel during your practice lap or a small one when you're running the Olympic 100-meter for real?
- Tomahawk

Eh. It's a very small price on the cap. Ideally you wouldn't have it on there, but it's still only 900k. This is a situation which is already poor -- letting it fester even longer is good for no one. I hope Vinny terminates. I do -- it may not be entirely likely but it is best case. But I am fine with a buyout. If Vinny could be sat in a corner for the next year or two, fine, but this is a situation that trickles down to affect team morale too. It's ugly for everyone and needs to be fixed ASAP.

Eh. It's a very small price on the cap. Ideally you wouldn't have it on there, but it's still only 900k. This is a situation which is already poor -- letting it fester even longer is good for no one. I hope Vinny terminates. I do -- it may not be entirely likely but it is best case. But I am fine with a buyout. If Vinny could be sat in a corner for the next year or two, fine, but this is a situation that trickles down to affect team morale too. It's ugly for everyone and needs to be fixed ASAP.
- Mononoke

When the window opens for real, I want this team the best possible chance to win it, with no lingering impediments. Not 98% team strength, 100%. Margin between winning and losing is so tiny.

Eh. It's a very small price on the cap. Ideally you wouldn't have it on there, but it's still only 900k. This is a situation which is already poor -- letting it fester even longer is good for no one. I hope Vinny terminates. I do -- it may not be entirely likely but it is best case. But I am fine with a buyout. If Vinny could be sat in a corner for the next year or two, fine, but this is a situation that trickles down to affect team morale too. It's ugly for everyone and needs to be fixed ASAP.
- Mononoke

I personally feel that having Lecavalier on the team has a negligible effect on morale directly. I think he's a good teammate, doesn't make waves, and is well liked in the room. What has an effect on morale is losing, and it's going to take more than buying out Lecavalier, and the cap space saved, to fix that.

When the window opens for real, I want this team the best possible chance to win it, with no lingering impediments. Not 98% team strength, 100%. Margin between winning and losing is so tiny.
- Tomahawk

If this team was ready to do something next season, it would be a different story. It's similar to in game strategy. Time, place, score.

Eh. It's a very small price on the cap. Ideally you wouldn't have it on there, but it's still only 900k. This is a situation which is already poor -- letting it fester even longer is good for no one. I hope Vinny terminates. I do -- it may not be entirely likely but it is best case. But I am fine with a buyout. If Vinny could be sat in a corner for the next year or two, fine, but this is a situation that trickles down to affect team morale too. It's ugly for everyone and needs to be fixed ASAP.
- Mononoke

If you want it fixed ASAP, then not buying him out is the way to go.

Wish I knew, but I suspect the answer will be patience and an eye on the longer-term future than just this season and next.
- bmeltzer

Wouldn't that mean at some point moving some out?