Johnston made me hate "if it ain't broke don't fix it". That's his excuse for playing scuderi over Clendening and fish out of water plotnikov over sprong last night. just because something is good doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement.
- Zac_O

Two things here:

1. That didnt seem to be the case when he played Clendening and Sprong and snapped the losing streak, only to go right back to Scuds and Kevin Porter.

2. The bolded should be a tagline on every hockeybuzz post. Observing something, as a fan, and discussing how it could be different or better is an opinion on ways to improve. It's not pure cynicism.

Johnston made me hate "if it ain't broke don't fix it". That's his excuse for playing scuderi over Clendening and fish out of water plotnikov over sprong last night. just because something is good doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement.
- Zac_O

The problem is that there's no guarantee Clendening over Scuderi and Sprong over Plotnikov will lead to better results and I'm not even saying I would want those changes made because I would prefer Clendening/Sprong over Scuderi/Plotnikov, I'm just saying that what they are doing now is working and I understand the mindset of sticking with what you know is working as opposed to introducing the risk that the changes may work better but may work worse. I'm sure at some point in the near future things won't work as well and then will be a perfect time to see if the changes work better, until that time i'm not going to get bent over sticking with what is working.

Two things here:

1. That didnt seem to be the case when he played Clendening and Sprong and snapped the losing streak, only to go right back to Scuds and Kevin Porter.

2. The bolded should be a tagline on every hockeybuzz post. Observing something, as a fan, and discussing how it could be different or better is an opinion on ways to improve. It's not pure cynicism.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I think a few outrageously negative people on this board turned the culture to where if someone suggests there's room for improvement its interpreted as "we suck and we just happen to be winning right now". That doesn't need to be the case.

I think in terms of play Lovejoy is almost as bad as Scuderi. In fact Lovejoy has been making more mistakes recently. The main thing that makes Scuderi worse is his contract. I would like to see Johnston play Clendenning all the time and rotate Scuderi and Lovejoy for the other defenseman. In his one game so far Clendenning had some nice up-ice passes to the offense - something you never see from Scuderi. So what if he took a few penalties.

His contract is also really the only thing I had against Sutter. I really never thought he was that bad and that he and Bonino are basically equivalent. The main advantage that Bonino has is a much better contract.
- PghPens668771

Wow. Not even sure how to respond to this but it was so off base I felt I had to respond anyway. I didn't get to watch last night's game but Lovejoy has been one of the better defenseman for the last 7-8 games and easily the steadiest. As I said the other day, people need to let go of past resentments and embrace the here and now, Lovejoy has been very good for the role they have used him in and trying to nitpick one or 2 plays out of an entire game as your case study is nothing more than worping reality to fit your inaccurate agenda.

Because it's not a bug, it's a feature. They don't care about a large volume of meaningless shots - they're trying to prevent juicy chances. Which they're doing very successfully, to the tune of the top GA/G in the league (tied with Rangers).

Just like Sutter - he'll give you the 50 footer, but you're not getting into prime scoring areas. Which is why judging him, and this year's Penguins' defensive acumen is asinine as judging Pete Rose based on his home run totals, or Shaq based on his assists per game, or Peyton Manning on his rushing yards.
- hardnosed

I actually did the numbers2 blogs ago on if more shots = more goals. Took all over last season and there were 15 teams above the average amount of shots. Know what it showed? 10 of those 15 had more then the average amount of goals and 2 of the 5 lower were just barely lower.

So yes, more shots = more goals.

I actually did the numbers2 blogs ago on if more shots = more goals. Took all over last season and there were 15 teams above the average amount of shots. Know what it showed? 10 of those 15 had more then the average amount of goals and 2 of the 5 lower were just barely lower.

So yes, more shots = more goals.
- Guile

st louis won over chicago 6 - 5 yesterday and chicago had double the shots of st louis

st louis won over chicago 6 - 5 yesterday and chicago had double the shots of st louis

- martox

So... 1 game sample trumps using an entire season of data? The hell man, you can't be that stupid.

Its a prediction tool... 15 teams with more then the average shots... 10 of them had more then the average goals. You can't argue or debate that, its a statistic, not a magic crystal ball or a genie.

So... 1 game sample trumps using an entire season of data? The hell man, you can't be that stupid.

Its a prediction tool... 15 teams with more then the average shots... 10 of them had more then the average goals. You can't argue or debate that, its a statistic, not a magic crystal ball or a genie.
- Guile

it was a joke but ok...

st louis won over chicago 6 - 5 yesterday and chicago had double the shots of st louis

- martox

Yep, 1 game out of 2,460 games played in a season is the perfect sample size to prove that something isn't true.

Not to mention that the offense is coming along. If the Pens would have been able to stay on sides last night I counted at least 6 more odd man rushes. Kessel and Malkin are finding their respective grooves, and, if not for some bad puck luck, Crosby could easily have 10-12 points right now and no one is complaining about him.
- cranktheradio

A lot of people are complaining about Crosby being disinterested and floating, have been since game one. Yes he could be scoring more if he had a little luck or if Kunitz could have buried some nice setups by Crosby early in the season.

If the coaching staff is so confident in Scuderi, put him with Letang and give him more ice time. Cole is not working with Letang as well as we would like and both could use a shake up. It worked with the forwards. We are a win now team so guys have to put their big boy pants on do what is needed. If you are not handling your role you get less ice time.

Scuderi for Norris!

A lot of people are complaining about Crosby being disinterested and floating, have been since game one. Yes he could be scoring more if he had a little luck or if Kunitz could have buried some nice setups by Crosby early in the season.

If the coaching staff is so confident in Scuderi, put him with Letang and give him more ice time. Cole is not working with Letang as well as we would like and both could use a shake up. It worked with the forwards. We are a win now team so guys have to put their big boy pants on do what is needed. If you are not handling your role you get less ice time.

Scuderi for Norris!
- Thunderbolt

I'm all for changing up the defensive pairings, but Scuderi is the last option I would pair with Letang. I'd call Pouliot up before trying Scuderi there. Ideally I'd like to see Maatta with him. Maybe try Dumoulin too.

I'm all for changing up the defensive pairings, but Scuderi is the last option I would pair with Letang. I'd call Pouliot up before trying Scuderi there. Ideally I'd like to see Maatta with him. Maybe try Dumoulin too.
- jfkst1

I am willing to bet my house that Agnew and Johnston agree with you. Right now I would sit Maatta one game and have Jacques Martin sit with him in the press box and hope that helps the kid.

Yep, 1 game out of 2,460 games played in a season is the perfect sample size to prove that something isn't true.
- jaydogg1974

since when did people get so serious... oh I see I forgot the sarcastic font

it was a joke but ok...
- martox

Quite hard to detect sarcasm with the number of die hard anti stat people around... my apologies.

A lot of people are complaining about Crosby being disinterested and floating, have been since game one. Yes he could be scoring more if he had a little luck or if Kunitz could have buried some nice setups by Crosby early in the season.

If the coaching staff is so confident in Scuderi, put him with Letang and give him more ice time. Cole is not working with Letang as well as we would like and both could use a shake up. It worked with the forwards. We are a win now team so guys have to put their big boy pants on do what is needed. If you are not handling your role you get less ice time.

Scuderi for Norris!
- Thunderbolt

Eh... Crosby needs to get back into his shoot first mentality that he had years ago. I have nothing against his ability to pass and set up great chances, but a lot of the passes hes making creates a chance no better then what he had if he shot, if the play doesn't get broken up before his winger shoots.

Quite hard to detect sarcasm with the number of die hard anti stat people around... my apologies.
- Guile

dw I just forgot the sarcasm font

dw I just forgot the sarcasm font
- martox

F the sarcasm font.

F the four scoring lines model.

Quite hard to detect sarcasm with the number of die hard anti stat people around... my apologies.
- Guile

Honestly i feel like its a pretty even split.

I think in terms of play Lovejoy is almost as bad as Scuderi. In fact Lovejoy has been making more mistakes recently. The main thing that makes Scuderi worse is his contract. I would like to see Johnston play Clendenning all the time and rotate Scuderi and Lovejoy for the other defenseman. In his one game so far Clendenning had some nice up-ice passes to the offense - something you never see from Scuderi. So what if he took a few penalties.

His contract is also really the only thing I had against Sutter. I really never thought he was that bad and that he and Bonino are basically equivalent. The main advantage that Bonino has is a much better contract.
- PghPens668771

I will disagree, I think Lovejoy has been quiet, as in he's doing his job. He played well against OV. But if that's the way you feel, thats cool. I'm not gonna jump on the I'm right your wrong mantra that seems to be popular now

I will disagree, I think Lovejoy has been quiet, as in he's doing his job. He played well against OV. But if that's the way you feel, thats cool. I'm not gonna jump on the I'm right your wrong mantra that seems to be popular now
- nelson911

Quiter

And it's not anti-stat, it's not letting stats that live in a vacuum hold sway when they lack precision and/or are taken out of context.

Like the "quality chance" stat referenced earlier, which is predicated only on distance and location, based on shooting charts.

That tells me nothing about quality, only about distance and location.

Give me a stat that tells me number of odd-man break shots and what they were, number of cross ice in the wheelhouse setups, number of well-screened point shots, and I'll give them some credence. A 60 foot shot through traffic is often a more difficult save than a 20 foot wide-open look with no screen.

And just to bring the current Penguins into this - there's things they're doing to mitigate certain kinds of great chances (focus on getting forwards back on defense/one man forecheck = fewer odd man breaks or transition chances and not engaging net front guys means fewer screened point shots/wall of bodies situations). Doesn't mean they'll never give up something juicy, just means that they're actively cutting down on them. And perhaps most importantly, it's a boon to Flower's psyche to be told that they're going to try to make things less chaotic for him.

Fleury's numbers might well come down. But that doesn't mean that they'll come down to where they were when the Penguins were playing wide open hockey years ago.

I really don't like the more shots = more goals analysis.

Its flowing from a similar correlation that good hockey players create more good shots and thus score more goals.

Using that analysis doesn't tell you much on how to improve your team. Any team in the NHL could probably lead the league in shots on goal if they set out to do that, but they would also end up last in goals as they took low quality shots. It doesn't tell you much on how to play the game.

The fact we are not doing well in stopping shots is probably a bad thing, but it could be a result of our system. You could have a defensive system that gives up a lot of below average to average quality shots, but does extremely well at rebound control and preventing very high quality chances. I'm not saying we are doing this, but many have said we are playing boring hockey so there probably is some truth to an analysis that we are having forwards play more defense and decreasing higher quality scoring chances.

Another example where a team might give up few shots but a lot of goals would be a team that is very aggressive with defenseman in the offensive zone and very aggressive in the neutral zone. That could lead to a lot of puck possession, but a lot of odd man breaks.

I do think the Penguins haven't been aggressive on the break out which could lead lower possession, more shots, but few odd-man opportunities. That fits a narrative for the Penguins currently.

How do teams play when they have a lead with 7 minutes left. Forwards fall back and give up possession. Other teams gets a lot of possession in the offensive zone, but few really good shots though they can probably throw a lot of things at the net from the point.

And it's not anti-stat, it's not letting stats that live in a vacuum hold sway when they lack precision and/or are taken out of context.

Like the "quality chance" stat referenced earlier, which is predicated only on distance and location, based on shooting charts.

That tells me nothing about quality, only about distance and location.

Give me a stat that tells me number of odd-man break shots and what they were, number of cross ice in the wheelhouse setups, number of well-screened point shots, and I'll give them some credence. A 60 foot shot through traffic is often a more difficult save than a 20 foot wide-open look with no screen.

And just to bring the current Penguins into this - there's things they're doing to mitigate certain kinds of great chances (focus on getting forwards back on defense/one man forecheck = fewer odd man breaks or transition chances and not engaging net front guys means fewer screened point shots/wall of bodies situations). Doesn't mean they'll never give up something juicy, just means that they're actively cutting down on them. And perhaps most importantly, it's a boon to Flower's psyche to be told that they're going to try to make things less chaotic for him.

Fleury's numbers might well come down. But that doesn't mean that they'll come down to where they were when the Penguins were playing wide open hockey years ago.
- hardnosed

Paraphrasing Voltaire, don't let perfection be the enemy of the good.

How do teams play when they have a lead with 7 minutes left. Forwards fall back and give up possession. Other teams gets a lot of possession in the offensive zone, but few really good shots though they can probably throw a lot of things at the net from the point.
- sditulli

Perfect example.

I gave two examples above - one man forecheck and keeping the net-front unclogged by conceding it.

Another of course is the defensive responsibility of the centers. Before, they had full license to get up ice when they started to smell a change of possession.

Now, they support and stay below the puck until possession is assured, and then the breakout is methodical enough that all those mythological failed zone exits people are talking about with the so-called lack of puck moving defensemen don't even end up in odd man catastrophes that tax Fleury because there's guys sitting back.

Paraphrasing Voltaire, don't let perfection be the enemy of the good.
- jfkst1

Kind of fits what they're doing. They're not trying to be a perfect defensive team, chasing the puck and challenging every play. They're sagging back, playing sound and good, and letting their insanely talented goalie handle his business without dealing with the onslaught he used to sometimes get overwhelmed by.