Amen.
- Pecafan Fan

Lou said it emphatically, a coach is a teacher first and foremost, he is there to teach players how to play. So yes young players can be taught at the NHL level. If they are not ready then that is a different story but to say they are not there to be taught is foolish.

here is the thing

they are still developing gardiner and rielly

the defense is already young.. you cant put too many defensive holes into your D.. work rielly and gardiner first.. then move to the next guy
- Dozzer

Theses guys are more stay at home types, totally different then those two you mentioned.

Lou said it emphatically, a coach is a teacher first and foremost, he is there to teach players how to play. So yes young players can be taught at the NHL level. If they are not ready then that is a different story but to say they are not there to be taught is foolish.
- LeafMan

Development and learning a new system/strategies aren't the same thing.

the one major thing LM and I disagree on

he thinks the kids should play and develop in the NHL

i do not

just because you are better than a vet doesnt mean you have developed to your potential..

the NHL is not for development

http://www.sportsnet.ca/h...haping-maple-leafs-moves/

“It didn’t work for me,” he says of jumping into the NHL as an 18-year-old. “It nearly ruined me. It took me a year-and-a-half
- Dozzer[to get up to speed]. I couldn’t score, I couldn’t keep up. I played on the fourth line, so I just started fighting other fourth liners … it was getting embarrassing. I was reading stories about being a first-round bust.”
~Brendan Shanahan

wow nice.. someone who actually went through the process and understands the pressure. never saw that before

Dubas has said this repeatedly as well.

When they are ready to be an everyday NHLer, they will come up.
- TheThrill

exactly

develop until ready

the opposite is the mistake edmonton has been making for nearly a decade now

Development and learning a new system/strategies aren't the same thing.
- Pecafan Fan

Again you are not getting it, if they are NOT READY then they go back but just because they are young doesn't mean they can't be taught in the NHL. I don't consider 22 and 23 year olds to young to play in the NHL and to learn.

Theses guys are more stay at home types, totally different then those two you mentioned.
- LeafMan

doesnt change the fact they are developing PMDs.. so they want reliability on the bottom pairing..

i dont like them paired together.. i think that isnt going to do anything

You can't bring them up all at once, it has to be gradual, this should have been the year that one of those 22 year old D got a chance.
- LeafMan

the season hasnt even started. Wo have no idea how it plays out
How can we be upset about it yet?

Again you are not getting it, if they are NOT READY then they go back but just because they are young doesn't mean they can't be taught in the NHL. I don't consider 22 and 23 year olds to young to play in the NHL and to learn.
- LeafMan

this is the whole point LM

no teaching in the NHL.. none.

you are ready or you arent

wow nice.. someone who actually went through the process and understands the pressure. never saw that before
- senstroll

yup.. and when a future HoFer says that it means something

and when the future HoFer comes from the Detroit model it REALLY means something

these kids wont be leafs until they are 100% ready to be

Nah, if they pick up a 22 year old cast off and yet have two 22 year olds who played really well in Percy and Loov, it stinks. You cannot use the age argument.

Eventually you have to bring these guys in, can't group them all together.
- LeafMan

I think they want Loov and Percy to play regular minutes though. Corrado was brought in because they probably see him as a guy who may have potential, but they don't mind sitting him for weeks at a time if the other guys are playing well enough.


He's a benchwarmer with potential.

I'm sure examples can be found of players who developed into stars in the NHL and others in the AHL.

this is the whole point LM

no teaching in the NHL.. none.

you are ready or you arent
- Dozzer

There is always teaching in the NHL, if you can't see that then this discussion is over for me.

There is always teaching in the NHL, if you can't see that then this discussion is over for me.
- LeafMan

Don't tell the Habs fans this.

You can't bring them up all at once, it has to be gradual, this should have been the year that one of those 22 year old D got a chance.
- LeafMan

next year's team

next year's team
- jimi james

Everything and everyone is next year's team.

There is always teaching in the NHL, if you can't see that then this discussion is over for me.
- LeafMan

There's teaching in the NHL, no doubt. All summer we've heard how Babcock is going to teach these vets how to do things they should already be doing. That emphasis on getting the little things right, no matter who he's coaching is likely what makes Babcock successful... They're also lots of learning moments that happen during the games themselves that don't happen against lower competition.

But you need to counterbalance that with how much time these guys get a game, and how much the media is going to skewer them, in this city especially, if they don't perform.

Leafs don't have a strong enough core, IMO, to bring along young players and shelter them, so they can have those positive learning moments without the negative media.

Everything is next year's team.
- LeafMan

When this year isn't the year next year will than be the year...

this is the whole point LM

no teaching in the NHL.. none.

you are ready or you arent
- Dozzer

Going to have to disagree here.

And Babcock would disagree with you here.

I've heard him lay out his plans twice: the Leafs Town Hall and the Leafs Coaching Clinic.

He actually says that he considers himself a teacher more than a coach.

Having said all that, I firmly believe that for young guys, the better learning environment is the AHL, where you can get top line minutes, play in key situations, and not have to worry as much about making mistakes.

That last one is key: too many Toronto kids have been ruined by coming up too early, making rookie gaffes, and having the criticism crush their confidence.

See Schenn, Luke.

When this year isn't the year next year will than be the year...
- Fruitcakenipple

First time in 40 years I am ok with the thought of them sucking for a couple more years, maybe even a few.

Babcock can't fix this in one year. Superman couldn't fix this team in on eyear.

So did David Clarkson.

I'll confess I haven't read all of Bloatsie's remarks from today, but if his assertion was that you really can't get anything of value from the waiver wire, it's a valid opinion.

And I'm willing to bet anyone a virtual beer that Panik clears waivers today.
- Atomic Wedgie

All of you owe me a virtual beer.

Going to have to disagree here.

And Babcock would disagree with you here.

I've heard him lay out his plans twice: the Leafs Town Hall and the Leafs Coaching Clinic.

He actually says that he considers himself a teacher more than a coach.

Having said all that, I firmly believe that for young guys, the better learning environment is the AHL, where you can get top line minutes, play in key situations, and not have to worry as much about making mistakes.

That last one is key: too many Toronto kids have been ruined by coming up too early, making rookie gaffes, and having the criticism crush their confidence.

See Schenn, Luke.
- Atomic Wedgie

I think we're getting confused over semantics and we all agree.

Players still "learn" in the NHL, obviously. Systems, strategies, some positioning on particular situations etc...

But if a player isn't a top talent, already good enough and fast enough to play in the NHL, he should "develop" in the minors. Where can work on his game, his physique etc.

First time in 40 years I am ok with the thought of them sucking for a couple more years, maybe even a few.

Babcock can't fix this in one year. Superman couldn't fix this team in on eyear.
- bixll

He could spin the earth backwards to undo every bad move they've made. It'd take decades, but to us it's seem instantaneous.

All of you owe me a virtual beer.
- Atomic Wedgie

you didnt earn it

All of you owe me a virtual beer.
- Atomic Wedgie

With re-entry waivers gone, I think we see him next game to fill in for Lupul.