The Rags defense isn't as good as those, but it's still very good.
- jmatchett383

Lundqvist also helps

With the defensive core, Lundqvist, and the fact that 99% of our forwards are great defensively, we've been able to finish in the top 5 in GA for like half a decade or more now.

I'd like to see him paired with Mark Staal or McD to make an actual assessment on him.
- Victoro311

He will depending on situations. For example if we're down a goal then I'd expect to see him eat up some of Staal or Girardi's minutes.

He'd be on our top line with McDonagb if he was a righty.

Who's ready to be mad at me for saying this?

If we need D help bad our best bet would be to trade Matt Murray or Triston Jarry.
- Zac_O

Not mad, just unrealistic. Look at how many backups were traded this past offseason. None of them went for much, and Murray and Jarry aren't even back ups. No way they bring in top 4 help, and we'll need to free up cap. One of Kunitz or Perron would have to go and they'd have to be the center piece. Maybe one of the 'tender prospects could work as a sweetener but they wouldn't be much more than that.

The Tampa Bay Rangers, sorry Tampa Bay Lightning should make you giggle as well seeing it grow into a contender.

Just imagine if the Rags just kept....don't worry it's better watching their expectations grow & their talent reduce each year - each year the Lundqvist 'dynasty' comes closer to falling!? Wait what....they didn't I mean they haven't .....but Lundqvist.........
- Aussiepenguin

Nothing better than seeing the Penguins make the same mistakes each year. What's the definition of insanity?

Goalies are erratic in development. Murray was a relative nothing until last season. I'm not very comfortable with unloading them before the org. has a good idea on what they have with them.
- jfkst1

Buy low sell high. And right now Murray is high in value. Jarry maybe a bit to. When it comes down to it we won't get a #3-#4 d-man for cheap. One of those two goalies might be the best option for trade.

Who's ready to be mad at me for saying this?

If we need D help bad our best bet would be to trade Matt Murray or Triston Jarry.
- Zac_O

If they are traded for D help we over pay as no one is giving us a top 4 D for either of them even if we throw Scuds in. It will be a rental if we did. Those 2 are more likely (read that as hopefully), bringing in a like prospect F if either is traded.

Nothing better than seeing the Penguins make the same mistakes each year. What's the definition of insanity?
- rangerdanger94

Thinking Girardi is better than Gardiner.

Nothing better than seeing the Penguins make the same mistakes each year. What's the definition of insanity?
- rangerdanger94

Only a very misinformed person would consider this offseason comparable to years past. It's been a full departure.

So.... when healthy...

Perron-Crosby-Kessel
Kunitz-Malkin-Hornqvist
Plotnikov-Bonino-Bennett
Dupuis-Fehr-Cullen

?

Buy low sell high. And right now Murray is high in value. Jarry maybe a bit to. When it comes down to it we won't get a #3-#4 d-man for cheap. One of those two goalies might be the best option for trade.
- Zac_O

Not really. He's unestablished until he gets a good amount of NHL games and that isn't happening until he is successful in at least 30+ NHL games. Like Victoro said, he'll just be a sweetener in a deal unless he proves himself at the NHL level. In which case, why would the Pens trade him at that point?

Not mad, just unrealistic. Look at how many backups were traded this past offseason. None of them went for much, and Murray and Jarry aren't even back ups. No way they bring in top 4 help, and we'll need to free up cap. One of Kunitz or Perron would have to go and they'd have to be the center piece. Maybe one of the 'tender prospects could work as a sweetener but they wouldn't be much more than that.
- Victoro311

It would depend on how well GMJR coykd sell that one of them is the best goalie prospect. If any organization is even half as high on Murray as we are there might be something to it. Yes they would need to add in more than just the goalie, but the goalie would be the bases of the trade.

Thinking Girardi is better than Gardiner.
- jfkst1

See the Hawks traded their first & won a cup. The Rags traded their first & their best F prospect & ...........won the Presidents trophy!

So.... when healthy...

Perron-Crosby-Kessel
Kunitz-Malkin-Hornqvist
Plotnikov-Bonino-Bennett
Dupuis-Fehr-Cullen

?
- BINGO!

Based on team comments and lines I'd guess:
Kunitz-Crosby-Kessel
Perron-Malkin-Hornqvist
Dupuis-Bonino-Bennett
Plotnikov-Cullen-Sprong (for 9 games)
Maatta-Letang
Cole-Lovejoy
Scuderi-Clendening
Dumoulin-Gonchar

Nothing better than seeing the Penguins make the same mistakes each year. What's the definition of insanity?
- rangerdanger94

How's that "Eastern Conference Champions" t-shirt working for you. You've about worn that thing out yet?

Man it's impossible to have a conversation here

I'll reply brief, scoring is 99.9999999999999% goalie. There is no guaranteed move/tactic/play that will get you a goal whenever you do it. 1 day you may score the next 20 you won't due to the goalie. That is the unknown in scoring that you cannot explain. It doesn't matter if you have all the possession & a sog of 1000000 if the goalie stops them all, you don't score. You could be Sidney Crosby or Rob Scuderi, but if the goalie either stops it or let's it in depends if it's a goal or not.
- Aussiepenguin

You too seem to be very smart individuals, but I think you are looking at analytics incorrectly. I get the impression you expect the numbers to predict outcomes of a game or even a season. Please, correct me if I am wrong. That's not how scouts and executives use them (at least good ones, see Blackhawks). The purpose is utilization of roles and how individual players compare in given roles (especially in comparison of salary when a cap is involved).

The eye test and scout experience is still the most important thing about talent evaluation, but there is a point where it's hard to distinguish the middle of the pack players. This is a very effective and proven aid when used correctly.

IMO the Penguins are finally starting to understand this concept, although they still have a way to go.

What Ryan is doing is fun to discuss and analyze from a fans perspective, but it's not necessarily how it is executed.

Not really. He's unestablished until he gets a good amount of NHL games and that isn't happening until he is successful in at least 30+ NHL games. Like Victoro said, he'll just be a sweetener in a deal unless he proves himself at the NHL level. In which case, why would the Pens trade him at that point?
- jfkst1

I see what you're saying. But I still believe that some team out there would take the chance on him and be willing to develop him more before getting results. Like I said the trade would need to be more than just him. And there has to be a goalie needy team with scouts that have taken notice of his play.

Who's ready to be mad at me for saying this?

If we need D help bad our best bet would be to trade Matt Murray or Triston Jarry.
- Zac_O

There is just not much trade value for unproven prospect goalies. You'd get like a Ben Lovejoy level guy back, or if you went young, like another Clendenning.

Not worth the move IMO.

Look at Martin Jones, who had some decent NHL success only got a likely mid 1st round pick from San Jose.

Man it's impossible to have a conversation here
- rangerdanger94

You could always try Blueshirt Banter. I hear they love Girardi almost as much as you do.

Man it's impossible to have a conversation here
- rangerdanger94

It is a little choppy today. The overall theme is defensive uncertainty and who is going to comprise the 4th line if you need a scorecard. You are talking turkey into a tornado.

There is just not much trade value for unproven prospect goalies. You'd get like a Ben Lovejoy level guy back, or if you went young, like another Clendenning.

Not worth the move IMO.
- rival22

I agree mostly. But don't agree on the unproven part. Teams had to have taken notice when he stepped in and kicked major butt in the AHL. They were probably watching the game last night that he was solid in. He isn't proven for NHL play, but he has proven he should be a high goalie prospect.

Murray would be more than a sweetener in a deal or we shouldn't trade him. He's worth atleast the equivlaent of a second and possible a 1st.

Jarry is the one I'd trade. I'd guess his value is still close to the 2nd we gave up for him. Jarry plus Kunitz should bring in a real top 4 d-man

You too seem to be very smart individuals, but I think you are looking at analytics incorrectly. I get the impression you expect the numbers to predict outcomes of a game or even a season. Please, correct me if I am wrong. That's not how scouts and executives use them (at least good ones, see Blackhawks). The purpose is utilization of roles and how individual players compare in given roles (especially in comparison of salary when a cap is involved).

The eye test and scout experience is still the most important thing about talent evaluation, but there is a point where it's hard to distinguish the middle of the pack players. This is a very effective and proven aid when used correctly.

IMO the Penguins are finally starting to understand this concept, although they still have a way to go.

What Ryan is doing is fun to discuss and analyze from a fans perspective, but it's not necessarily how it is executed.
- accgoalie13

The way to view analytics is much the same way as viewing card counting on the black jack table. Counting cards doesn't guarantee that you'll win a specific hand. It actually doesn't technically guarantee that you'll come away from the table up (although if you're good at it its highly unlikely you won't). What it does is give you a better probability of winning.

People who look at analytics and think that they predict winners of games are not thinking about it correctly, whether they're pro or anti "fancy stats". What analytics have done is pinpoint more specific indications of what causes and prevents goals which allows for a deeper understanding of how specific players are deployed and how successful they are in said deployment. Thus, analytics is a team building tool that stacks the deck, or so to speak, in your favor when making the decision over which personnel to employ. Once those players hit the ice, however, it's very silly to analyze a specific game in terms of analytics.

Man it's impossible to have a conversation here
- rangerdanger94

Please....this is mild. Go to the Rags blog and see how they treat someone like you from another fan base.

You could always try Blueshirt Banter. I hear they love Girardi almost as much as you do.
- jfkst1

I think you might have a Girardi obsession