2015 Tampa Bay lightning, and the Blackhawks bottom 3 defensemen were no picnic either
- Dcoms

TBL has an above average defense and above average team defense. Chicago has an above average defense (overall) and has one of the best team defenses in the league. Toews and Hossa are elite defensive forwards. The Pens don't have anyone close to them and as a whole are very average.

TBL has an above average defense and above average team defense. Chicago has an above average defense (overall) and has one of the best team defenses in the league. Toews and Hossa are elite defensive forwards. The Pens don't have anyone close to them and as a whole are very average.
- thevelvetfog1

At what point last season was the Pens defense worse than average? I'm willing to bet Chicago's "team defense" wouldn't be very good if Keith, Hjalmarsson, and Oduya were out due to injury.

At what point last season was the Pens defense worse than average? I'm willing to bet Chicago's "team defense" wouldn't be very good if Keith, Hjalmarsson, and Oduya were out due to injury.
- jfkst1

Right, and that's WITH Martin and Ehrhoff. I'm no Ehrhoff fan, but he's better than everyone on the current roster not named Letang and Maatta.

As for your other point, when your top 2 D men are as injury-prone as Letang and Maatta, then you better have someone better than Cole and a bunch of scrubs behind them and/or elite defensive forwards. The Pens have neither.

Right, and that's WITH Martin and Ehrhoff. I'm no Ehrhoff fan, but he's better than everyone on the current roster not named Letang and Maatta.

As for your other point, when your top 2 D men are as injury-prone as Letang and Maatta, then you better have someone better than Cole and a bunch of scrubs behind them and/or elite defensive forwards. The Pens have neither.
- thevelvetfog1

When Pens were healthy to start the season they had a top 5 defense. Even at the midway point last season they were enduring multiple lineup injuries and were in the top 10. End of the season with a skeleton squad they were still at least average. I understand and agree with the injury concerns, but at some point key players need to stay healthy to win anyway. Hawks don't win the SC if Seabrook breaks his ankle instead of Rozsival.

TBL has an above average defense and above average team defense. Chicago has an above average defense (overall) and has one of the best team defenses in the league. Toews and Hossa are elite defensive forwards. The Pens don't have anyone close to them and as a whole are very average.
- thevelvetfog1

Actually, over the years Crosby has quietly done a very good job of shutting down other team's top lines. He just won't get any credit for it ever because he's "a one dimensional offensive player and people need to realize that Jonathan Toews is the best, most complete player in the league today."

Aside from Crosby, players who have been good two way forwards for us over the past few years include:

Chris Kunitz
Pascal Dupuis
Blake Comeau
Jussi Jokenin
Nick Spalling
Under the radar: Beau Bennett when healthy

Most of those guys have played big minutes for us in the top 6. Our problem with what you call team defense is that we filled up our bottom six with guys that were known as grinders and assumed that their gritness meant they were good at defense, which was not the case. These players include:

Craig Adams
Tanner Glass
Joe Vitalle
Taylor Pyatt
Andrew Ebbit
Adam Payerl
Zack Sill

This year with the additions of guys like Fehr, Plotnikov, and possibly Sundqvist, our team should feature more top down defensive responsibility from our forwards. Factor in that these forwards will also come with a potent offensive punch, I think that whatever slack our shaky defense gives up can be picked up by the rest of the team.

Actually, over the years Crosby has quietly done a very good job of shutting down other team's top lines. He just won't get any credit for it ever because he's "a one dimensional offensive player and people need to realize that Jonathan Toews is the best, most complete player in the league today."

Aside from Crosby, players who have been good two way forwards for us over the past few years include:

Chris Kunitz
Pascal Dupuis
Blake Comeau
Jussi Jokenin
Nick Spalling
Under the radar: Beau Bennett when healthy

Most of those guys have played big minutes for us in the top 6. Our problem with what you call team defense is that we filled up our bottom six with guys that were known as grinders and assumed that their gritness meant they were good at defense, which was not the case. These players include:

Craig Adams
Tanner Glass
Joe Vitalle
Taylor Pyatt
Andrew Ebbit
Adam Payerl
Zack Sill

This year with the additions of guys like Fehr, Plotnikov, and possibly Sundqvist, our team should feature more top down defensive responsibility from our forwards. Factor in that these forwards will also come with a potent offensive punch, I think that whatever slack our shaky defense gives up can be picked up by the rest of the team.
- Victoro311

I agree with both of your points to an extent. However, rolling with what we have on defense is, in my opinion, destined for failure. Not sure that simply adding a legit second pairing D man will put us over the top, but it sure would help. Without, the stars will have to align miraculously. Hopefully Rutherford and the front office are at least concerned to the point of taking action sooner than later.

TBL has an above average defense and above average team defense. Chicago has an above average defense (overall) and has one of the best team defenses in the league. Toews and Hossa are elite defensive forwards. The Pens don't have anyone close to them and as a whole are very average.
- thevelvetfog1

Sharp was an excellent two way forward too.

I agree with both of your points to an extent. However, rolling with what we have on defense is, in my opinion, destined for failure. Not sure that simply adding a legit second pairing D man will put us over the top, but it sure would help. Without, the stars will have to align miraculously. Hopefully Rutherford and the front office are at least concerned to the point of taking action sooner than later.
- thevelvetfog1

You'll plug Ron Hainsey in there soon enough.

Marc-Edouard Vlasic. 4.250M -> 2018.

Things aren't going to go well for the Sharks this season. They remained committed to the wrong core, which is aged, and I don't think they're capable of making the playoffs in the same conference as Nashville, Minnesota, and Dallas. It was once thought that Jason Demers was untouchable, too.

Dan Hamhuis. 4.5M -> UFA2016.

Vancouver is this offseason's laughingstock, narrowly edging out Boston. They used to condescend to the rest of the NHL. Now they have Brandon Sutter. As they will be out of the NHL playoff race by December's break, it should be a fire sale.

Marc Methot. 4.9M -> 2019. HERO chart says second pair performance yielded from top pair minutes minus first pair unadjusted corsi%. Played with E. Karlsson all season. Ottawa should be a bubble team but spend so much energy courting the attention of the Leafs that they are the first team out of it nearing season's end.

These are some suggestions for second pair defense. In this scenario I would consider a competition for the 4th slot between Cole and Clandening.

To quote myself:

"The Pen's D is below average. The Pen's team D is average. Name the last Cup contender / winner with this kind of team."

Just being a realist.
- thevelvetfog1

More like a nihilist. It's not as bad as you think, honest.

Am I the only one that thinks Cullen looks fine and still has decent speed? Reading through the comments it seems I'm the only one.

Marc-Edouard Vlasic. 4.250M -> 2018.

Things aren't going to go well for the Sharks this season. They remained committed to the wrong core, which is aged, and I don't think they're capable of making the playoffs in the same conference as Nashville, Minnesota, and Dallas. It was once thought that Jason Demers was untouchable, too.

Dan Hamhuis. 4.5M -> UFA2016.

Vancouver is this offseason's laughingstock, narrowly edging out Boston. They used to condescend to the rest of the NHL. Now they have Brandon Sutter. As they will be out of the NHL playoff race by December's break, it should be a fire sale.

Marc Methot. 4.9M -> 2019. HERO chart says second pair performance yielded from top pair minutes minus first pair unadjusted corsi%. Played with E. Karlsson all season. Ottawa should be a bubble team but spend so much energy courting the attention of the Leafs that they are the first team out of it nearing season's end.

These are some suggestions for second pair defense. In this scenario I would consider a competition for the 4th slot between Cole and Clandening.
- Johnny Wrath

Id kill for Vlasic, that guy on that contract is gold. But he isnt available.

Hamhuis is definitly available at the deadline, and I think he would be a good addition if we are in need of a top 4 dman. May be able to get him by shipping the canucks back their 2nd we got in he Sutter deal.

Methot isnt available, he and Karlsson are just too good together.

Am I the only one that thinks Cullen looks fine and still has decent speed? Reading through the comments it seems I'm the only one.
- MattStrat

I thought he played a very decent game last night. He is still quick and is more aggressive/physical than I thought he was going to be. I like him on the PK and the 4C, pretty happy so far with that pickup.

Am I the only one that thinks Cullen looks fine and still has decent speed? Reading through the comments it seems I'm the only one.
- MattStrat

I thought he looked fine. I also think a young defense will take a while to find it's cohesion. Did anyone really expect it to be perfect. DP was injured and didn't even start skating half way through the summer. Too many tight asses on this board currently. This team went through a major overhaul that was desperately needed.
I can be patient for now.

Am I the only one that thinks Cullen looks fine and still has decent speed? Reading through the comments it seems I'm the only one.
- MattStrat

He's a real NHL player that can handle the puck and isn't out of position on a regular basis so he's infinitely better than Lap Dog as the 4C.

Sorry, folks, but the D is going to sink this team. Even if Letang and Maatta stay healthy all year (which is a big IF), Maatta hasn't much looked like a #2. And it still means that Cole, who St. Louis made a healthy scratch / 3rd pairing and couldn't get rid of him fast enough (for Bortuzzo!), is the #3. Not good. He is a decent defenseman. A good 3rd pairing defenseman on a Cup-contending team, a below average 2nd pairing D on a bad team, but certainly not a legit #3.

Who is #4? Please don't say Lovejoy. Sorry, but he's a slow floater. Anaheim made him a healthy scratch, too. Teams in Cup contention don't make good defenseman healthy scratches. Just because he is on the Pens, Pens' fans get homer goggles and suddenly think he is good. He is not. He was a minus player on the Ducks FFS!

Also, please don't use the series against NYR as a basis for judging the D. First, it is a small sample size. Second, NYR is offensively challenged. Third, Fleury played out of his head. Fourth, the Pens completely changed their style to support the D (thus the complete lack of offense).

I give the Pens D about a 10% chance of being good this year. That's IF Letang and Maatta stay healthy all year, IF Cole plays above his average, IF Clendening is able to play on a second-pairing level, IF one or more of Pouliot, Dumoulin, etc. are able to become legit NHL defensemen, IF pylons Scuderi and Gonchar never sniff the ice. Those are all big IFs.

The Pen's D is below average. The Pen's team D is average. Name the last Cup contender / winner with this kind of team.

TBF, outside of the Despres / Lovejoy debacle, I like what Rutherford has done so far, but the Pens are still a season or two of development and/or an off-season or two away from being a contender.
- thevelvetfog1

Someone take that (frank)IN BIG RED BUTTON AWAY FROM HIM AGAIN!!!!!!!

Not our night so far down 2-0 after 4 minutes.

Peter Mrazek is far better than Jeff Zatkoff. I turned the game on after the two Pens goals but I'm under the impression we're playing pretty well. Lots of dangerous chances for us.

Marc-Edouard Vlasic. 4.250M -> 2018.

Things aren't going to go well for the Sharks this season. They remained committed to the wrong core, which is aged, and I don't think they're capable of making the playoffs in the same conference as Nashville, Minnesota, and Dallas. It was once thought that Jason Demers was untouchable, too.

Dan Hamhuis. 4.5M -> UFA2016.

Vancouver is this offseason's laughingstock, narrowly edging out Boston. They used to condescend to the rest of the NHL. Now they have Brandon Sutter. As they will be out of the NHL playoff race by December's break, it should be a fire sale.

Marc Methot. 4.9M -> 2019. HERO chart says second pair performance yielded from top pair minutes minus first pair unadjusted corsi%. Played with E. Karlsson all season. Ottawa should be a bubble team but spend so much energy courting the attention of the Leafs that they are the first team out of it nearing season's end.

These are some suggestions for second pair defense. In this scenario I would consider a competition for the 4th slot between Cole and Clandening.
- Johnny Wrath

Vlasic is not available, I see the Sharks back in the playoffs this year with a coaching change and a decent partner for Burns. Vlasic is also the Sharks captain and one of the best contracts in the league. And Methot would die in this system.

Peter Mrazek is far better than Jeff Zatkoff. I turned the game on after the two Pens goals but I'm under the impression we're playing pretty well. Lots of dangerous chances for us.
- Victoro311

Game is on?

Game is on?
- lloyd095

Is this game seriously not being broadcast anywhere?
What is the NHL doing exactly?

Game is on?
- lloyd095

Not on TV in the Pittsburgh area as far as I can tell (not Root, not CW). Is Mike Lange broadcasting the game on the radio? I don't think he's done any games yet so far.

Also who is this hipster-sounding loser doing the intermission report on radio? What a difference from Bob Grove.

Not on TV in the Pittsburgh area as far as I can tell (not Root, not CW). Is Mike Lange broadcasting the game on the radio? I don't think he's done any games yet so far.

Also who is this hipster-sounding loser doing the intermission report on radio? What a difference from Bob Grove.

- ab1

No Lange. That's the least they could do but I'm sure he gets paid too much per game for these preseason matches.
Sam Kasan's voice is really tough on the ears, I agree.

No Lange. That's the least they could do but I'm sure he gets paid too much per game for these preseason matches.
Sam Kasan's voice is really tough on the ears, I agree.
- Danny_Devito

Oh well. I'm sure at this point in his career Lange doesn't need much practice to be in mid-season form.

Oh well. I'm sure at this point in his career Lange doesn't need much practice to be in mid-season form.
- ab1

Yeah I'm fine with just 29er for these. It really just irks me that there's no tv broadcast for either team. For a league that should be obsessed with marketing to a young audience, they sure don't care much about showing off the youth that they possess.