I consider any player winning a cup in his lifetime a success given the amount of people who retire without ever having the chance to lift it. Do we want more? Sure, what hockey fan doesn't. But you guys are just trying to find a way to knock our guys down a peg because of your own self loathing about how utterly crappy your team is.
- thickman1178

Literally said about a page ago that your team is obviously more talented right now but okay thanks for playing. If Letang is down for a long period of time again and Mattaa does not live up to the hype its not looking so good for your defense.

If Letang is down for a long period of time again and Mattaa does not live up to the hype its not looking so good for your defense.
- Mordecai

It wouldn't be looking good for any team if they couldn't count on their top two defensemen.

You must be 15 years old if you think being in your mid to late 20's is past your prime. Lebron James will be 31 in December and there is little doubt that he will be carrying the Cavs on his back come June to another finals. Hockey is harder mind you because you have to have the perfect mix of the right roster, health, luck, chemistry, opponents with match up problems etc. It has little to do with age, almost nothing really other than you probably won't win 4 rounds with a team full of 39 year olds because they will break down. But just south or north of 30 is still prime time win time.
- Dcoms

took it and ran with it. nice.

It wouldn't be looking good for any team if they couldn't count on their top two defensemen.
- hardnosed

Yes, again right on the head. Seems to be a trend here.

PIT in particular is lacking the def depth i guess is what i was trying to say.

Yes, again right on the head. Seems to be a trend here.

PIT in particular is lacking the def depth i guess is what i was trying to say.
- Mordecai

Well, the Penguins have an old as dirt PP specialist coming to camp on a PTO, with an outside shot to stick as a 7th defenseman.

The Flyers have an old as dirt PP specialist coming to camp who is being counted on to play big minutes, like he did last year.

The Penguins' general defensive depth is just fine. The only issue is going to be solidifying the 2nd pair, but they have Cole, Pouliot and Dumoulin to choose from.

Literally said about a page ago that your team is obviously more talented right now but okay thanks for playing. If Letang is down for a long period of time again and Mattaa does not live up to the hype its not looking so good for your defense.
- Mordecai

Every single contender in the league is done if their 1D goes down for the season.
It's not "hype" with Maatta. He isn't an unproven prospect like the vaunted Flyers defense of the future. He is proven capable on the 2nd pairing provided he has no health issues. It's not wildly unreasonable to have him play capably with Letang as long as he is at full health. Pouliot needs to improve in the defensive zone but his underlying numbers were strong and he was very good at the AHL level so he is on track developmentally. Cole also played will on the 2nd pairing last year.

EDIT: I also find it incredibly hypocritical how everyone is criticizing the Pens defense and not the Blue Jackets. That defense sucks even when healthy.

Yes, again right on the head. Seems to be a trend here.

PIT in particular is lacking the def depth i guess is what i was trying to say.
- Mordecai

Did you streak down main or steal the Whockeybuzz girls (or girouix's) panties yet? Who's in charge of this dudes orientation? wheres will when you need him?

Well, the Penguins have an old as dirt PP specialist coming to camp on a PTO, with an outside shot to stick as a 7th defenseman.

The Flyers have an old as dirt PP specialist coming to camp who is being counted on to play big minutes, like he did last year.

The Penguins' general defensive depth is just fine. The only issue is going to be solidifying the 2nd pair, but they have Cole, Pouliot and Dumoulin to choose from.
- hardnosed

Our defense is a ? but I think people overblow how big of a ? it actually is. We have a legit #1 guy in Letang. Not every team has a #1, so we got that part right. Then we got Maatta who has proven he can play at a #3 D man level and Cole who proved he could play at a #4 level during the playoffs. Small sample size, but its not out of the question that Cole, who I think flourished in our system during the regular season in his bottom pairing role, can build off of the playoff performance and be a capable #4 D. If Pouliot or Dumoulin can develop into a #4 level of effectiveness then we'll be fine. A top 4 of a #1, #3, and two #4s is good enough to get the job done with our forward group and Fleury.

Unrelated: I had a dream the other night that Getzlaf and Perry entered free agency and decided to sign with the Penguins at a discount because they wanted to be our shut down third line. Then I woke up sad

Goalies, what can you say? You get your head stoved in fighting to get ahead in a game and your goalie let's in a cheapie. Then another and it's like WTF? There is nothing worse than a decent team with a bad goalie.

Panties.

LETS GO ISLANDERS

Our defense is a ? but I think people overblow how big of a ? it actually is. We have a legit #1 guy in Letang. Not every team has a #1, so we got that part right. Then we got Maatta who has proven he can play at a #3 D man level and Cole who proved he could play at a #4 level during the playoffs. Small sample size, but its not out of the question that Cole, who I think flourished in our system during the regular season in his bottom pairing role, can build off of the playoff performance and be a capable #4 D. If Pouliot or Dumoulin can develop into a #4 level of effectiveness then we'll be fine. A top 4 of a #1, #3, and two #4s is good enough to get the job done with our forward group and Fleury.

Unrelated: I had a dream the other night that Getzlaf and Perry entered free agency and decided to sign with the Penguins at a discount because they wanted to be our shut down third line. Then I woke up sad
- Victoro311

I agree with that... If Pouliot or Dumo can perform, I'll feel A LOT better about our D.

If Pouliot or Dumoulin can develop into a #4 level of effectiveness then we'll be fine. A top 4 of a #1, #3, and two #4s is good enough to get the job done with our forward group and Fleury.

- Victoro311

And Pouliot and Maatta both have #1 D potential. Impact potential.

I agree with that... If Pouliot or Dumo can perform, I'll feel A LOT better about our D.
- madmike71

I think Pouliot is a sure thing. The positive things he did last year were things you can't teach, and the negative things he did were mental erros/lack of experience. Should be night and day after having a summer to reflect and work.

I think Pouliot is a sure thing. The positive things he did last year were things you can't teach, and the negative things he did were mental erros/lack of experience. Should be night and day after having a summer to reflect and work.
- hardnosed

I think he's a sure thing too. I'm just not "sure" it will come together for him this year.

If I remember correctly, the team asked him to really work hard this summer.......and I believe he did the Roberts thing too.

I think he's a sure thing too. I'm just not "sure" it will come together for him this year.

If I remember correctly, the team asked him to really work hard this summer.......and I believe he did the Roberts thing too.
- madmike71

People don't realize that he's grown over the last couple of years since he was drafted. He's by no means small - listed at 6'0, 208lbs.

And Pouliot and Maatta both have #1 D potential. Impact potential.
- hardnosed

Agreed. While they are a Q this year, I am very confident in the defense moving forward. Its part of the reason why I think this offseason righted the Penguins' ship. We managed to get our missing piece in the top 6 without trading away either Maatta or Pouliot. So now we have 3 of our top 4 d men locked in and 4 of our top 6 forwards locked in moving forward, so in theory, we shouldn't have to send big assets packing anymore to acquire major players to fill major holes since we won't need game breakers to fill those three remaining holes with all the other talent we have. I like to think that Harrington and Kapanen were the last major victims of the "all-in, no regard to assets" era mentality.

If you go back and read again I also included future forward prospects as well. Even added in a (hopefully) there as to not deal in absolutes.

Kessel, Crosby, Malkin will sure score a lot of goals but that PIT defense is looking interesting atm. Hopefully Matta and Letang can stay healthy otherwise it doesn't look too pretty.
- Mordecai

So you guys will be great once your D prospects reach NHL, BUT, ours won't?

Our prospects are just hitting that time 1 of which is ranked among the best???

So which is it? Your prospects will be great & ours not?

Or,

Both prospect pools will be good making our team contenders for years to come but you just won't admit it?

I think he's a sure thing too. I'm just not "sure" it will come together for him this year.

If I remember correctly, the team asked him to really work hard this summer.......and I believe he did the Roberts thing too.
- madmike71

I read that he admitted his fitness was not good enough & that was his major focus on getting it up to NHL level for this season. So we can take that as him saying he wasn't fit enough last season for the NHL. How many errors were due to his fitness level not being good enough & be corrected this season by just being fit enough?

Agreed. While they are a Q this year, I am very confident in the defense moving forward. Its part of the reason why I think this offseason righted the Penguins' ship. We managed to get our missing piece in the top 6 without trading away either Maatta or Pouliot. So now we have 3 of our top 4 d men locked in and 4 of our top 6 forwards locked in moving forward, so in theory, we shouldn't have to send big assets packing anymore to acquire major players to fill major holes since we won't need game breakers to fill those three remaining holes with all the other talent we have. I like to think that Harrington and Kapanen were the last major victims of the "all-in, no regard to assets" era mentality.
- Victoro311

Harrington and Kapanen are by no means guaranteed NHL players either. Before the trade I read that Kappy was probably 2 years away from being NHL ready. Harrington looked terrible last year. After reading how highly regarded he was, I was disappointed to see him struggle so badly with the big club.

Harrington and Kapanen are by no means guaranteed NHL players either. Before the trade I read that Kappy was probably 2 years away from being NHL ready. Harrington looked terrible last year. After reading how highly regarded he was, I was disappointed to see him struggle so badly with the big club.
- madmike71

I don't think Harrington was a great fit in the new system where as Dumo is. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Dumoulin the least impressive defenseman two years ago when everyone and their mother got injured and we had a blue line of Niskanen and a bunch of call ups? Could be remembering that wrong.

I don't think Harrington was a great fit in the new system where as Dumo is. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Dumoulin the least impressive defenseman two years ago when everyone and their mother got injured and we had a blue line of Niskanen and a bunch of call ups? Could be remembering that wrong.
- Victoro311

Yeah, he struggled. I think Baby Ulf was probably the worst, but it was hard to find anything to like about Dumo's game at the time. I was ready to write him off until he played well against the Rags in the playoffs. That was the first time where he actually looked like he could handle the speed of the NHL. Let's hope that wasn't a mirage.

it was hard to find anything to like about Dumo's game at the time.
- madmike71

During his little 8 game cup of coffee in the regular season, he was playing solid hockey but was prone to the goal-allowing big mistake. He settled down in the playoffs.

He's big, fast, and can create some offense and finish. And he's only 14 games into his NHL career. If he puts it all together, this defense could go from question mark to very good in a heartbeat.

So you guys will be great once your D prospects reach NHL, BUT, ours won't?

Our prospects are just hitting that time 1 of which is ranked among the best???

So which is it? Your prospects will be great & ours not?

Or,

Both prospect pools will be good making our team contenders for years to come but you just won't admit it?
- Aussiepenguin

The Flyers have the greatest defensive prospect pool ever assembled in the modern era and no other team will be able to compete with them by 2020.

During his little 8 game cup of coffee in the regular season, he was playing solid hockey but was prone to the goal-allowing big mistake. He settled down in the playoffs.

He's big, fast, and can create some offense and finish. And he's only 14 games into his NHL career. If he puts it all together, this defense could go from question mark to very good in a heartbeat.
- hardnosed

I'm talking about a couple of years ago when most of the D was out. He was terrible.

Every single contender in the league is done if their 1D goes down for the season.
It's not "hype" with Maatta. He isn't an unproven prospect like the vaunted Flyers defense of the future. He is proven capable on the 2nd pairing provided he has no health issues. It's not wildly unreasonable to have him play capably with Letang as long as he is at full health. Pouliot needs to improve in the defensive zone but his underlying numbers were strong and he was very good at the AHL level so he is on track developmentally. Cole also played will on the 2nd pairing last year.

EDIT: I also find it incredibly hypocritical how everyone is criticizing the Pens defense and not the Blue Jackets. That defense sucks even when healthy.
- jfkst1

I mean, I've mostly just been focused on PIT and PHI but yeah the Jackets are not in a great position on defense.

I meant more along the lines of Mattaa is coming back from some pretty nasty injuries/surgeries and may take some time to acclimate. By no means is he unproven, you're absolutely right.