There is a lot more to the addiction issue than most people think. Have you heard about this latest research? The conclusions include 1) that the opposite of addiction is not sobriety, it is human connection, and 2) it is not the rat who is to blame, it is the cage!

It's interesting to consider Patrick Kane's situation - what we know of it, anyway - from this perspective; especially what help he might need.

http://www.huffingtonpost...of-addicti_b_6506936.html
- matt_ahrens

I hope he doesn't go the sex addict route like tiger woods... that's just so lame. I don't buy tiger's sex addiction bull for a minute...

whats Marc Mcneil's situation? Never called up, not really touted compared to other prospects, and yet still in the organization.

Gonna share a bit of my opinion if Y'all don't mind. Mostly related to the Kessel trade because a lot of people (one of my good friends included) thinks its a comparable.

While the players are, the teams are most definitely not. The leafs 'scorched earth' BS put them in a spot that they only wanted picks/prospects/futures whatever. where the hawks are in a position to actually be competitive. The hawks could take back players that are good now, that actually have cap hits to make kanes 10.5mil a bit more tolerable vs. Toronto having to retain because anybody that came back that had a cap hit was completely useless to them. Am I out of my gourd with this kind of reasoning?

whats Marc Mcneil's situation? Never called up, not really touted compared to other prospects, and yet still in the organization.
- arps714

For now....

Vladimir:

https://ca.sports.yahoo.c...ion--video-194137749.html

Gonna share a bit of my opinion if Y'all don't mind. Mostly related to the Kessel trade because a lot of people (one of my good friends included) thinks its a comparable.

While the players are, the teams are most definitely not. The leafs 'scorched earth' BS put them in a spot that they only wanted picks/prospects/futures whatever. where the hawks are in a position to actually be competitive. The hawks could take back players that are good now, that actually have cap hits to make kanes 10.5mil a bit more tolerable vs. Toronto having to retain because anybody that came back that had a cap hit was completely useless to them. Am I out of my gourd with this kind of reasoning?
- the_dough_boy

Toronto didn't get good value because Kessel had a NTC and they needed to unload him to ensure proper tanking. IF Bowman were to trade Kane (and I don't think he will or should), the return would depend heavily on how many teams Kane would be willing to go to. Only way I can see Bowman getting a fair return is if he is willing to take players that have potential but haven't fully developed yet (e.g. Dano).

So the Hawks doen't want to punish Kane for his string of bad decision making! Sure, if Kane settles out of court, the Hawks are going to ask Kane to spend a month in a rehab clinic so he will kick his bad habits. This sound like good PR move by John and Rocky. They want Everybody to think all will be well with Kaner and the Hawks wunderkind will be ready to go play hockey. Unfortnately, it woen't be with the Hawks . Management , I am pretty sure has all ready closed the book on Kane, just biding their time until" the price is right". McD wanted to trade Kane the last time he embarrassed the team. No way in hell will he forgive him again unless Rocky again votes him down.

Vladimir:

https://ca.sports.yahoo.c...ion--video-194137749.html
- walleyeb1

More I see that guy, more grateful I am to be American . Good lord.

So the Hawks doen't want to punish Kane for his string of bad decision making! Sure, if Kane settles out of court, the Hawks are going to ask Kane to spend a month in a rehab clinic so he will kick his bad habits. This sound like good PR move by John and Rocky. They want Everybody to think all will be well with Kaner and the Hawks wunderkind will be ready to go play hockey. Unfortnately, it woen't be with the Hawks . Management , I am pretty sure has all ready closed the book on Kane, just biding their time until" the price is right". McD wanted to trade Kane the last time he embarrassed the team. No way in hell will he forgive him again unless Rocky again votes him down.
- spanky

Assuming no charges - unless there are other incidents documented by the team but unknown to the public it is hard to see rehab being a possibility. Kane has an agent and legal that would stand in the way of that unless they actually agree he has a problem.

The fact that alcohol has been a factor in each of the public incidents they may be able to require counseling but there is a huge amount of supposition involved to even arrive there.

I'm glad to hear the new position from JJs source. If he clears this mess then it certainly works better to let him play his way out from under the cloud as much as possible - whether to eventually trade him or not.

No Plea Negotiations or Settlement Talks, or so they say. Who knows how credible this little paper is!


http://www.niagarafallsre...2015/SEP01/KaneSept1.html
- walleyeb1

The fact there have been no plea negotiations between District Attorney Frank Sedita and defense attorney Paul Cambria comes as the Chicago-based website SportsMockery.com published a story citing a report in the Buffalo News on Sunday that talked about potential civil agreements in cases like the one involving Kane. That possibility is completely discounted by our source who denies any talks have taken place and said none will.

Not sure about NFR as a source but this is a pretty strong statement - more than a denial because they are walking a fine line with pre charge settlement - this is pretty unequivocal. Would also mean this could drag out quite some time unless the prosecutor announces no charges.

I also hate to break it to you (and everyone), but a lot of commercial airline pilots are functional alcoholics—until they get help, or worse.
- John Jaeckel

Say it ain't so Ogi. Say it ain't so.

Scott Levin (@ScottLevinWGRZ)
9/1/15, 3:32 PM
Sources close to the #patrickkane inv. say NO settlement talks are taking place at this time... none! @WGRZ #patkane


Better source I'd say:

Love my family, my church, and my job as an Emmy Award & Murrow winning Evening Anchor @WGRZ ...Life Is Good! Retweets by the way... are not endorsements!

Another angle to all of this is that for Kane - who's by all accounts a committed rink rat and a true lover of playing the game - being prevented from playing is a sort of punishment all its own.

Not sure about NFR as a source but this is a pretty strong statement - more than a denial because they are walking a fine line with pre charge settlement - this is pretty unequivocal. Would also mean this could drag out quite some time unless the prosecutor announces no charges.
- tredbrta

The second biggest and most important question mark in all this after not knowing what happened in the house) is what the complainant wants. If she wants money you can kind of chart out her moves and see a settlement and plea bargain pretty easily. If not we're into a very different scenario one that makes it harder politically for the DA to cut a deal with Kane

Assuming no charges - unless there are other incidents documented by the team but unknown to the public it is hard to see rehab being a possibility. Kane has an agent and legal that would stand in the way of that unless they actually agree he has a problem.

The fact that alcohol has been a factor in each of the public incidents they may be able to require counseling but there is a huge amount of supposition involved to even arrive there.

I'm glad to hear the new position from JJs source. If he clears this mess then it certainly works better to let him play his way out from under the cloud as much as possible - whether to eventually trade him or not.
- tredbrta

I am not sure McD agrees with you about Kaner staying. You are aware , there is a strong chance that the NHL might not increase the cap for the next three years because of the world economy. The US $ and even more so the Canadian $ are very shaky right now. No increase in the cap would put the Hawks in a hell of a bind because of the two super cap hits( Toews and Kane ).

One thing we do know is that depth wins cups. There are available scenarios out there that suggest these Hawks can be deep enough to win another cup, with, or without Kane. If Arty P, TT, and Marko Dano are all strong players, and you get back
the right pieces for Kane this team could be deep enough. All big ifs, of course. But I think that's the motivation to discuss whether they might trade Kane or not. For my part, I am neither for or against trading him. But what I do want, is for the Hawks to find a way to remain deep. If the best way to do that is to trade him, then I'm for it. If it's not the best way, I'd love to find out he is innocent and they keep him.

Patrick Kane is just one guy. How has Crosby done in the playoffs recently? He's just one guy, too, on a team that isn't as deep as the Hawks.
- DirkGraham

1) This.

2) This.

3) This.

4) This.

This is where the timing of all of this stings. Could Saad have been that guy?
- Ogilthorpe2

This, too.

Yup, that's right guys, jus keep on convincing yourselves that we'd be fine without Kane...

I wonder what everyone would say the day after we won the Cup if I asked, "So, who out there thinks we'd be okay if we traded Kane?"

Nothing has changed as far as the team on the ice goes.

Trade 88 and its bye bye dynasty.

The problem I see is We gave Teows and Kane contracts at 10.5 when they should have been at 9.5. HOSSA,KEITH,HAMMER,SEABS, are all still great players but at some point you are going to have to pay other players to keep them. You want to have the ability to offer TT, DANO, Panarin 5-6 year Ext next year instead of only 2 year bridge deals. Assuming they deserve it (SAAD). Last summer what do you think SAAD would have taken on a 5 year deal? 4 mil per year? We of course could not do it because of T and K EXT. Do we want to be forced to keep flipping player's that would not take ELC's? Stan needs to remember that Chicago is right now one of a few cities that Player's will either take a discount to stay or come to. He needs to have cap space to do that. If guys are willing to sign team friendly deals we should find a way to make room for them. SEABS at 5-6 X 6, Shaw at 4 x 2.75 Kruger at 5 x 2.25 Are all under Market, and TT, DANO, PANARIN all put up 45-55 points next year wouldn't you love to be able to extend them for 5 year 4 mil after next year? With Kane contract you could never do that. Its ELC bridge or trade and then Trade after bridge. If kane and Teows were at 9.5 I would probably not say any of the above. K and T EXT was when they were predicting 75 Mil I cap not 70.
- kmw4631

Didn't Rocky say the wonder twins were worth every penny? Let that be a lesson, kids, to always be careful about what you say!

Back after the Saad trade, JJ used the words "cost-controlled" a lot, and I think it was not just the Hawks' top brass but the whole league going this route… Look no further than UFA deals this year… Sure, Mike Green's $6M was ridiculous, but Justin Williams got $3.75M, just one year removed from a Conn Smythe trophy. Yikes.

Much like the economy, the stagnant or falling salary cap will take a few years to work out in the salaries of all the players. A lot of players like Williams, Glencross, etc. who have held out for UFA deals may start signing reasonable extensions earlier in their careers when the offers come up from GM's looking to pay fairly without getting hosed. But then there will be the Brandon Saad's who go to being the face of a franchise overnight based on their POTENTIAL, not their production in context of line mates. Those GM's like Kerkalainen who gamble on some of these guys may be on the hot seat earlier if the gamble fails. We'll see...

No kidding! I'm always amazed at the people who automatically think they would've signed these under market value contracts. Teams don't retain good players by lowballing them. One could argue they've been underpaid their entire careers up until their new contracts (and I happen to think if they were UFAs on the market today, they probably would get more than what they're making right now). Good players get paid, and for a good team, unless you have a bunch of players on ELC's, you're always going to be dancing around the cap.

Onto the topic at hand, I always thought unless Kane was actually convicted of something, he was going to remain a Hawk. Here's hoping this episode finally gets rid of these stupid impulses he has because it's costing him money and trust.
- hawkfan79

This is interesting. At the end of these deals, T & K will have made $84 million, plus an additional $32 million from their bridge deals, plus $9 million from their ELCs after all the bonuses, right? That's $125 million in total for 16 years of hockey. So if they keep up their production, that's like $7.8M AAV for 16 years. That seems about right.

So, is there actual proof out there that Kane was "stupid drunk" or "wasted" or in any way out of control the night of the alleged incident? Any word on what his blood alcohol level was? Or are we all just jumping to conclusions on the whole "he needs treatment" thing? Like we are with everything else....?

sorry jj, disagree
alcoholism is a behavioral issue. change in behavior makes the problem go away
type 1 diabetes is an autoimmune issue - pancreas stop producing insulin. requires multiple insulin injections per day to keep the person alive. no change in behavior will make the issue go away.
type 2 diabetes, pancreas still functions. change in life style does have a dramatic effect on symptoms and treatment - completely different than type 1
- Confederate

Well if you want to get technical there are neurological changes that eventually happen with addiction so then it does become pathological.

Addiction has also been shown to have better outcomes when managed by a primary care provider.

Pretty semantical argument.

Hypertension sees pretty similar outcome's in terms pre, during and post treatment. Also, could be considered an affliction of choice.

I have a torn labrum in my hip. Its an overuse injury for sure and fortunately manageable with out any slice and dice. Should I not have participated in so many activities in high school and through my 20s? That is a condition of "choice" rather than whatever.

What is or isn't "healthcare" really isn't the debate at this point in time. If help is needed it is some combination of support and structure (AA) and probably followed up and managed by a medical professional.

Didn't Rocky say the wonder twins were worth every penny? Let that be a lesson, kids, to always be careful about what you say!

Back after the Saad trade, JJ used the words "cost-controlled" a lot, and I think it was not just the Hawks' top brass but the whole league going this route… Look no further than UFA deals this year… Sure, Mike Green's $6M was ridiculous, but Justin Williams got $3.75M, just one year removed from a Conn Smythe trophy. Yikes.

Much like the economy, the stagnant or falling salary cap will take a few years to work out in the salaries of all the players. A lot of players like Williams, Glencross, etc. who have held out for UFA deals may start signing reasonable extensions earlier in their careers when the offers come up from GM's looking to pay fairly without getting hosed. But then there will be the Brandon Saad's who go to being the face of a franchise overnight based on their POTENTIAL, not their production in context of line mates. Those GM's like Kerkalainen who gamble on some of these guys may be on the hot seat earlier if the gamble fails. We'll see...
- DMChi2010

I think the cbj were crazy to give saad that much cash and trade what they did for him. I get trying to lock up the rfa’s to longer term deals if you’re sure of what you’re getting but I would have thought a 2 year bridge deal for 3.5 would have been a much better option than handing over 6 mil per right away. Hawks did very well in that situation by moving him and getting great value in return. I’m not sold on Saad being worth that contract and you ended up getting multiple assets for him.

Scott Levin (@ScottLevinWGRZ)
9/1/15, 4:34 PM
Source tells me #Buffalo D.A. Office still interviewing re: #patrickkane #patkane investigation over the past weekend and this week. @WGRZ

Yup, that's right guys, jus keep on convincing yourselves that we'd be fine without Kane...

I wonder what everyone would say the day after we won the Cup if I asked, "So, who out there thinks we'd be okay if we traded Kane?"

Nothing has changed as far as the team on the ice goes.

Trade 88 and its bye bye dynasty.
- SimpleJack

Maybe without Kane and no replacement.

But if you got 2 players worth 5 mil or a 6.5 and a 4 mil player you guys probably could.