You missed my point. I postulated that Belishek was the original target, but he stayed clear. That is who the league was after for rules violation under his watch.

The whole Brady saga is as much of a joke as the political scandals of our day.
- TrueGrit

You may well be right, but that does not change the fact that they cheated and they were absolutely guilty of deflating footballs.

In Regard to the Rookie tournament, I 'm hoping to hear some updates on:



Erik Gustafsson 6' 176 23 L
Sam Jardine 6' 2" 209 L

people thought Jardine did well at prospect camp and Gustafsson has a shoot to make the roster

Kyle Baun 6'2" 209 23 R
Ryan Haggerty 6' 201 22 R

: Baun because Q seemed to really like him (I thought he was physical and played hard but did not see much skill) and Haggerty since we gave up Raanta for him.

of the off season moves that we discuss SAAD, SHARP, and Bickell still here. 2 that I really have a problem with are Trading Raanta and Anders Nilsson were both bad trades IMO. I know they both were going to be traded in the off season but to get a 21 year old for Nilsson who has never played above 2nd level hockey and did not dominate? And haggerty who is 22 and did not dominate in the AHL. I guess I would have thought we would have gotten some players with some upside. We will hold Liam coughlin we will hold his rights till he is 25 but if you cannot dominate when you are playing Vs Kids 2-3 younger? Haggerty had a good SR year of college and a AVG AHL year but again I see no upside. he is basically Carey who we signed last year and opted to not resign, plus he will be out of waivers after this year I think. on the other hand moving Clendening for Forsling I like. Maybe he cannot get up to NHL on the D side but if he does he could be a High End skater, A PP guy, and a 15 goal scorer from the d side.

Of the 4 trades this summer I am Ok with SAAD (don't love it because we signed AA to 5 at 4.55 for a center that is between 2-3 line quality) Sharp if we move him for prospects we can resign JO for about Daley contract, Keep Johns (a Big Right D man that can Skate and dominated AHL) we don't get Garbutt on a good deal but with Desjardins and Shaw do we need him? and we get a few prospects.

I hope somebody gets to watch some of the Rookie tournament. would love not to think about Kane for a bit. With it going to the Grand Jury it sure feels like he will be indited. Talking and flirting with him at a bar and wanting to go back to his place are going to make it hard to convict with a jury but if the facts are she went in the room before him (IE not with him) and then he bite her and had sex and right after she told her friend he raped her I just don't see how the Grand jury could not indite him. I agree it might be hard to win in court but the Grand Jury are people who know the law and will discount the bar, the ride to his house for late night partying.

For those who listen...

I will be on NHL Radio-SiriusXM today with Boomer @ 4:25 CST & tomorrow
@ 8:45 AM CST with Nick Alberga. I wonder what the main topic will be?
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@Alcimaglia
- Al

I listened and thought you hit a home run. I thought you encapsulated the front office (as not a reactionary one) with your example of the Dale Tallon's subsequent promotion and job shift and backdoor departure with done timely and looking like Tallon choosing to expand his horizons and challenges.
And the way you evaluated the new Hawk and moves...
I know commenting here that this is audence knows the team and reasonong, but the entire US and Canada needed to hear that Blackhawks were a team that can't pay the younger improving players like Saad BEFORE the player actually reaches that plateau.
With what seems to be the death of the bridge deal, teams are going to continue to walk that Evander Kane/Ryan O'Rielly/Tyler Myers (and Rick DiPietro/Alexei Yashin/even Frolik 2nd RFA deal) tightrope...
now IF a team is SURE this IS the guy, you pay Subban, and I am sure right now, the Bluejackets are feeling ok with signing Ryan Johansen...but I wonder what they think after looking at the stats and results on their new highest paid player, Brandon Saad?
I wish them success.
We can place the names Nathan MacKinnon,Seth Jones, Nikita Kucherov, Nugent-Hopkins,Filip Forsberg,Johnny Gaudreau, Aleksander Barkov, Morgan Rielly, Hampus Lindholm, Tyson Barrie, Alex Killorn, Ryan Strome, Trey Krug,Jaden Schwartz,and even the Wings "back-up' Petr Mrazek, and event though these teams are not already attached to a duo of ten million dollars young stars,
these type decisions start to be ones where the management and evaluation better be very close to correct because the are signings you them sculpt your roster around, and poor results could have you as a team in years of rebuilds after you decide "that didn't work out.."
So, I think,Al, you described it very well.
With parity (and all here have to see that right now there is a really strong thick group of good teams with most of the rest just a few pieces from "good") there are always gonna be teams that will attempt a random RFA SIGNING, and afterward more than one other team that will be more than willing to throw a solid NHLer and solid prospect at a team to acquire their latest not finished up and coming star and paying him because they don't have the Cap constraints the winning clubs might.
And as much as it bothers me as a fan to see "our players" sent packing, it would seem the league will benefit long term.

You may well be right, but that does not change the fact that they cheated and they were absolutely guilty of deflating footballs.
- Hawkeyes1

I do not disagree with anything you have said.

Do you really blame Brady or anyone for not surrendering their phone to this collection of clowns? The whole charade was a fishing expedition...like I said. A TMZ production. The sports media latched on because they want to pile on Brady.

Al makes the most salient point, and that begs the question, if the league really wanted to regulate the balls, why didn't they do it?

Could not agree more, but mark my words, there will be class action lawsuits from fans if Kane is convicted of anything. There will be a group of Victims outside of the incident.


- TrueGrit

No. There will not be. And someone was dumb enough to try something like that what would the damages be? Season ticket holder aggrieved because the team isn't winning as many games? Nope. You will still get your 41 home games plus preseason games.

Also "class action lawsuits?" Why would there be more than one? Are there multiple groups of fans damaged in the same way by something the team did? Or are they all suing Patrick Kane? If they are his $$ would be gone pretty quick.

People need to knock it off with the legal analysis.

Baun because Q seemed to really like him (I thought he was physical and played hard but did not see much skill) and Haggerty since we gave up Raanta for him.
- kmw4631

I don't think anybody gets to the NHL with they don't have skill. Baun was pretty successful at the college leve and showing terriifc balance, physicality, and short area quickness to get into scoring position after a nice job of getting the opposition to take notice and try and speed their plays because of his presses that came not just on the wall. The biggest burdle in the past for Rockford hawks like big Jimmy Hayes were combining the physical element and still being able to be back in position and making plays on the attack. I'll not drink anymore koolaid on Baun just yet, but he looked like he fit better in that short tryout than Jimmy Hayes did in all of his. Granted he was really sucking air after each shift because he left it all out there and would have to meet the challenge of doing it game after game. And I think that is going to be the challenge for Ross and other Icedogs and the new additions who have seen pro ice in Russia and the NHL.
You are in the pressbox once you start letting the physical strain change your short shift reations and decisions.

I really have a problem with are Trading Raanta and Anders Nilsson were both bad trades IMO. I know they both were going to be traded in the off season but to get a 21 year old for Nilsson who has never played above 2nd level hockey and did not dominate?
- kmw4631

I had high hopes for Raanta adjusting...but there were enough looks in the two years to see he had problems stopping pucks consistently and the fact he sour graped comments the other day, well he lost the job, by way of a giant Darling showing he seemed to have MORE upside.

Raanta will be an NHL back-up. And I just don't see him being much more.

and Anders Nilsson?
What exactly did he do to warrant any of the teams that owned his rights to roll out a red carpet pathway to their second goalie spot.
If he earns tiem and shows he can play in the NHL and actually be a difference maker, I wish him success, and a big contract.

...but, these were minor moves of minor consequences, and in no way changing the balance of the Blackhawks or any other NHL team.

I listened and thought you hit a home run. I thought you encapsulated the front office (as not a reactionary one) with your example of the Dale Tallon's subsequent promotion and job shift and backdoor departure with done timely and looking like Tallon choosing to expand his horizons and challenges.
And the way you evaluated the new Hawk and moves...
I know commenting here that this is audence knows the team and reasonong, but the entire US and Canada needed to hear that Blackhawks were a team that can't pay the younger improving players like Saad BEFORE the player actually reaches that plateau.
With what seems to be the death of the bridge deal, teams are going to continue to walk that Evander Kane/Ryan O'Rielly/Tyler Myers (and Rick DiPietro/Alexei Yashin/even Frolik 2nd RFA deal) tightrope...
now IF a team is SURE this IS the guy, you pay Subban, and I am sure right now, the Bluejackets are feeling ok with signing Ryan Johansen...but I wonder what they think after looking at the stats and results on their new highest paid player, Brandon Saad?
I wish them success.
We can place the names Nathan MacKinnon,Seth Jones, Nikita Kucherov, Nugent-Hopkins,Filip Forsberg,Johnny Gaudreau, Aleksander Barkov, Morgan Rielly, Hampus Lindholm, Tyson Barrie, Alex Killorn, Ryan Strome, Trey Krug,Jaden Schwartz,and even the Wings "back-up' Petr Mrazek, and event though these teams are not already attached to a duo of ten million dollars young stars,
these type decisions start to be ones where the management and evaluation better be very close to correct because the are signings you them sculpt your roster around, and poor results could have you as a team in years of rebuilds after you decide "that didn't work out.."
So, I think,Al, you described it very well.
With parity (and all here have to see that right now there is a really strong thick group of good teams with most of the rest just a few pieces from "good") there are always gonna be teams that will attempt a random RFA SIGNING, and afterward more than one other team that will be more than willing to throw a solid NHLer and solid prospect at a team to acquire their latest not finished up and coming star and paying him because they don't have the Cap constraints the winning clubs might.
And as much as it bothers me as a fan to see "our players" sent packing, it would seem the league will benefit long term.
- wiz1901

Thanks for the nice words Wiz, and the same to all the others that mentioned they enjoyed listening.

No. There will not be. And someone was dumb enough to try something like that what would the damages be? Season ticket holder aggrieved because the team isn't winning as many games? Nope. You will still get your 41 home games plus preseason games.

Also "class action lawsuits?" Why would there be more than one? Are there multiple groups of fans damaged in the same way by something the team did? Or are they all suing Patrick Kane? If they are his $$ would be gone pretty quick.

People need to knock it off with the legal analysis.
- UCSB616

pretty sure that was a sarcastic remark...

pretty sure that was a sarcastic remark...
- fattybeef

Yes....

pretty sure that was a sarcastic remark...
- fattybeef

That awkward moment when your sarcasm is so advanced that people actually think you’re stupid.

That awkward moment when your sarcasm is so advanced that people actually think you’re stupid.
- walleyeb1

You may well be right, but that does not change the fact that they cheated and they were absolutely guilty of deflating footballs.
- Hawkeyes1

But there was no hard evidence and "fact" that they did. The whole reason the judge overturned the ruling was because Goodell acted as judge, jury and executioner without having concrete evidence that their was cheating. Goodell made his punishment on the thought that Brady had an idea the balls were deflated, but in actuality, there was no evidence linking them.

I know the trades of Raanta and Nilsoon are not big moves. But with goalies more then anything else you have to play them and see how they do. What they can do in practice is not the same as a game. Its like a closer in baseball. Somebody can have great stuff but just does no have the head as a Closer. Raanta and Nilsson (protypically size) showed enough last year where their had to be some teams that thought they could grow into starting goalies. How many solid starting goalies are playing 15-20? that leaves 15-10 that are searching for one. If we traded either haggerty or Liam now what could we even get a 7th rounder? I feel like Raanta and nilsson should have brought back 3/4 round quality. If we traded Tanner Kero for a 25 year old 6-5 goalie that came off great season in the KHL would you say Bowman did well? What about Luke Johnson for a 2nd year 26 year old goalie that put up .935 in 20 games last year at $750K. that is basically what we did. I feel like bowman my over value his assets and Never gets it (other then Bollig) and then ends up taking what ever he can get.

You are not doing anything at work anyways , so watch this for 20 minutes .


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYkHeCfo8fo

I know the trades of Raanta and Nilsoon are not big moves. But with goalies more then anything else you have to play them and see how they do. What they can do in practice is not the same as a game. Its like a closer in baseball. Somebody can have great stuff but just does no have the head as a Closer. Raanta and Nilsson (protypically size) showed enough last year where their had to be some teams that thought they could grow into starting goalies. How many solid starting goalies are playing 15-20? that leaves 15-10 that are searching for one. If we traded either haggerty or Liam now what could we even get a 7th rounder? I feel like Raanta and nilsson should have brought back 3/4 round quality. If we traded Tanner Kero for a 25 year old 6-5 goalie that came off great season in the KHL would you say Bowman did well? What about Luke Johnson for a 2nd year 26 year old goalie that put up .935 in 20 games last year at $750K. that is basically what we did. I feel like bowman my over value his assets and Never gets it (other then Bollig) and then ends up taking what ever he can get.
- kmw4631

Sometimes overvaluing is an issue but more so here is that players are held onto too long. That's a consequence of having a loaded team but at times a GM has to be proactive and trade a year early rather than waiting until he has no other choice. By no other choice I mean waiver/contract issues etc., or it becomes obvious to all the youngster isn't going to be able to play for Q.

I think you saw what I am referring to this summer with Boston who anticipated never being able to resign those they dealt.

That's not the same as here with young players but u can see the point.

Bowman dealt Clendenning a bit earlier...Others like Pirri, Morin, Hayes, Stanton and others were held onto until there was no other real choice. For the most part the Hawks haven't lost out on dealing a young star but the return is a lot less when everyone can see the for sale around the neck of players.

I don't fault him for Raanta becasue the Hawks needed him for insurance in this year's postseason.

Sometimes overvaluing is an issue but more so here is that players are held onto too long. That's a consequence of having a loaded team but at times a GM has to be proactive and trade a year early rather than waiting until he has no other choice. By no other choice I mean waiver/contract issues etc., or it becomes obvious to all the youngster isn't going to be able to play for Q.

I think you saw what I am referring to this summer with Boston who anticipated never being able to resign those they dealt.

That's not the same as here with young players but u can see the point.

Bowman dealt Clendenning a bit earlier...Others like Pirri, Morin, Hayes, Stanton and others were held onto until there was no other real choice. For the most part the Hawks haven't lost out on dealing a young star but the return is a lot less when everyone can see the for sale around the neck of players.

I don't fault him for Raanta becasue the Hawks needed him for insurance in this year's postseason.
- Al

How's that saying go again? "Better to trade them a year earlier than a year later"

That awkward moment when your sarcasm is so advanced that people actually think you’re stupid.
- walleyeb1

I didn't read the entire context. I'm sorry. There's been plenty of legal eagles saying similar stuff though over the past few weeks. Since my sarcasm reader was off I apologize for the condescension in my post.

Being a "trust but verify" kind of guy, I've been following MexicoHawk's posts (interesting and informative) and the amateur detective work trying to uncover who he is. The concensus seems to be Brad Palmer, a 1st round draft choice of Minnesota in the 1980 draft who played in two seasons with Minnesota and then one with Boston.

The part that's confusing to me is MexicoHawk stated in a post he was called up and played in a few games in the 79-80 season but he didn't really count it as a full year. Rather, he counted the 80-81 season as his first year, which was the year the North Stars went to the Finals and lost to the Islanders in five games.

Wouldn't it be impossible to be called up during the 79-80 season since he wasn't drafted until June 1980?

The stats show Brad Palmer played part of the 80-81 season with Victoria in the WHL (juniors) and then 20+ games with Minnesota and then the playoffs.

Not trying to stir the pot here, just pointing out some information that doesn't seem to jive.

But there was no hard evidence and "fact" that they did. The whole reason the judge overturned the ruling was because Goodell acted as judge, jury and executioner without having concrete evidence that their was cheating. Goodell made his punishment on the thought that Brady had an idea the balls were deflated, but in actuality, there was no evidence linking them.
- Hank3Henshaw

False. Read the judges report. A federal judge does not weigh evidence where there is a collective bargaining agreement that states a case of this nature goes to an arbitrator, it is out of his realm of jurisdiction. What he can determine however, is if that arbitration is carried out in a faithful and fair manner which in this case he determined (rightfully imo) was not. And that is reflected in the judges comments which had nothing to do with evidence on Brady or lack thereof.

Also, are you saying you think Brady did not deflate the balls?

I didn't read the entire context. I'm sorry. There's been plenty of legal eagles saying similar stuff though over the past few weeks. Since my sarcasm reader was off I apologize for the condescension in my post.
- UCSB616

We are all good!

False. Read the judges report. A federal judge does not weigh evidence where there is a collective bargaining agreement that states a case of this nature goes to an arbitrator, it is out of his realm of jurisdiction. What he can determine however, is if that arbitration is carried out in a faithful and fair manner which in this case he determined (rightfully imo) was not. And that is reflected in the judges comments which had nothing to do with evidence on Brady or lack thereof.

Also, are you saying you think Brady did not deflate the balls?
- Hawkeyes1

I really don't know if the Patriots did it. I know stuff like this happens in sports, both past and present. Baseball with corked bats, pitchers doctoring balls, pin tar, steroids, etc. Hockey has had guys change the curve of their sticks more than the legal limit. But in the few above examples, all that stuff is proven that the person did it. People will do whatever to get a competitive edge, so, I wouldn't put it past them.

Does anyone know the answer to this question:

If Kane is suspended prior to training camp AND the Blackhawks get cap relief while he is suspended, when can they use that cap space to sign Kruger? Immediately or once the season starts?

False. Read the judges report. A federal judge does not weigh evidence where there is a collective bargaining agreement that states a case of this nature goes to an arbitrator, it is out of his realm of jurisdiction. What he can determine however, is if that arbitration is carried out in a faithful and fair manner which in this case he determined (rightfully imo) was not. And that is reflected in the judges comments which had nothing to do with evidence on Brady or lack thereof.

Also, are you saying you think Brady did not deflate the balls?
- Hawkeyes1

you are obviously not a brady fan?
i dont believe for a second that brady deflated any balls.

That awkward moment when your sarcasm is so advanced that people actually think you’re stupid.
- walleyeb1

you are obviously not a brady fan?
i dont believe for a second that brady deflated any balls.
- honeybunny

Please explain why the ballboy was nicknamed the 'deflator'

Please explain this string of texts between the two Patriot ballboys

"McNally: Tom sucks…im going make that next ball a (frank)in balloon

Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done…"