name one other number one D in the league who is effective that needs a all star partner to be good.. name one.

not one who has one.. one who needs one
- Dozzer

Isn't this kind of hard to find without pairing them with a Mike Kostka or Gunnarson?

Yep.
- Atomic Wedgie

Murphy was legitimately bad here, he was Jim Korn bad. A player that needed to get out to another team.

With every passing day, I think the possibility of young kids getting cups of coffee with the Leafs this year is dwindling.

You look at the off-season moves - one year deals to plug holes, signing journeymen to $1 contracts.

P.A. Parenteau? Why?

I don't hate the Mattias signing.

But bringing back Winnick?

Matt Hunwick?

I think the Leafs are the Leafs, and the Marlies are the Marlies, and never the 'twain shall meet.
- Atomic Wedgie

Parenteau was a good pick up. I bet he gets the leafs the best return at the deadline

weak argument

he is paid to be the guy who makes people better.. not to need someone to make him look good

seriously.. i laugh at that particular argument its so weak
- Dozzer

So Phaneuf didn't make Kostka, Gunnarson, and a few other guys so dog poop (and out of the league) I can't even remember look good?

Hmmmmmm....

Murphy was legitimately bad here, he was Jim Korn bad. A player that needed to get out to another team.
- LeafMan

Compared to even a year ago at this time, this is another team. The entire everything has been overhauled

I really hope so. But it's hard to see that at this point
- TheThrill

which is perfect. Nobody expects anything from him

So Phaneuf didn't make Kostka, Gunnarson, and a few other guys so dog poop (and out of the league) I can't even remember look good?

Hmmmmmm....
- Atomic Wedgie

Made Franson look good enough to fetch a 1st rounder.

But this is a weak argument Wedge. Better bail on it now

Parenteau was a good pick up. I bet he gets the leafs the best return at the deadline
- senstroll

I'm betting Polak will get a second or a combo of picks, D are more sought after at the TD.

If you can trade him for assets, sure.

I want to see Percy, Granberg or Loov get a chance this year.
- LeafMan

Think Percy will for sure

everything you just said takes the team in the direction i want them to go in this year.
- Dozzer

So we agree then. Phaneuf on the second pairing instead of they first is a terrible idea, unless the intention is tanking.

The leafs best D will be (in order)

Gardiner
Rielly
who cares

Once the Carlyle stink if completely off Gardiner, he will smell better and shine
- senstroll

The Leafs will finish 40 points behind the 2nd last team if Gard's is our best...Rielly is already twice as good...not sure how you have him behind Gardiner.

The Leafs will finish 40 points behind the 2nd last team if Gard's is our best...Rielly is already twice as good...not sure how you have him behind Gardiner.
- Garnie

Dr. Garnie


anagram for Gardiner

coincidence? I think not

The Leafs will finish 40 points behind the 2nd last team if Gard's is our best...Rielly is already twice as good...not sure how you have him behind Gardiner.
- Garnie

Gardiner is just maddening to watch. He's a terrific skater - pretty good hands, absolutely no idea how to play hockey.

My theory is that growing up, he was such a good skater he never had to learn fundamentals. He could always just skate his way out of trouble.

Sadly, that doesn't work in the NHL.

Just ask Alexandre Daigle.

Dr. Garnie


anagram for Gardiner

coincidence? I think not
- TheThrill

please anybody but Gardiner

Gardiner is just maddening to watch. He's a terrific skater - pretty good hands, absolutely no idea how to play hockey.

My theory is that growing up, he was such a good skater he never had to learn fundamentals. He could always just skate his way out of trouble.

Sadly, that doesn't work in the NHL.

Just ask Alexandre Daigle.
- Atomic Wedgie

ok skater...hands are not that great...as I've said..put Kessel on D and he would look twice Gardiner

Parenteau was a good pick up. I bet he gets the leafs the best return at the deadline
- senstroll

My only concern is now no one will trade for one of the Leafs rental players out of spite.

This will be organized by:
The NHL
Fakepartofme
DoubleDown
Iggy
Ron Wilson
Feschuk
Simmons
Kerry Frasor
Garf
The President
Vantel
The Hockey News
TSN
My Friend Nathan
Clarke MacArthur
and Scooby

Dr. Garnie


anagram for Gardiner

coincidence? I think not
- TheThrill

Do you think Gardiner is a good defenceman?

Just curious..lots of people do.

Do you think Gardiner is a good defenceman?

Just curious..lots of people do.
- Garnie

If they bring back the rover, he would rule!

edit: Now I got that great Zeppelin riff from the Rover in my head.

Made Franson look good enough to fetch a 1st rounder.

But this is a weak argument Wedge. Better bail on it now
- TheThrill

Franson made his own bed...great release/shot - good reach -...terrible skater..Dion didn't help his cause at all IMO.

Murphy was legitimately bad here, he was Jim Korn bad. A player that needed to get out to another team.
- LeafMan

The funny thing is, I was one of the worst critics.

My brother and I used to go to the games, and whenever Murphy got the puck (mostly behind our net), we would scream at the top of our lungs:

"Larry Alert! Larry Alert! Larry Alert!"

I feel shame.

The Leafs will finish 40 points behind the 2nd last team if Gard's is our best...Rielly is already twice as good...not sure how you have him behind Gardiner.
- Garnie

thats easy.. I watch the games..look at the stats and am unbiased

Do you think Gardiner is a good defenceman?

Just curious..lots of people do.
- Garnie

Nah, not really.

I think he looks confused most of the time

Nah, not really.

I think he looks confused most of the time
- TheThrill

It's the funny thing about him, though:

You watch him play, and you think "this guy could be a great player, if he ever puts it together."

But with every game I see him in, my confidence that he will one day put it together dwindles.

Franson made his own bed...great release/shot - good reach -...terrible skater..Dion didn't help his cause at all IMO.
- Garnie

Really?

Why doesn't he have a job now then?

Could it be because teams saw how he actually was as a player when he couldn't be propped up by Phaneuf?

Also, as a side note, can you explain how Aulie, Holzer and Kostka can all somehow play well enough alongside Phaneuf to merit top pair minutes at one point or another, but went to other teams and are now floundering in the AHL?

My only concern is now no one will trade for one of the Leafs rental players out of spite.

This will be organized by:
The NHL
Fakepartofme
DoubleDown
Iggy
Ron Wilson
Feschuk
Simmons
Kerry Frasor
Garf
The President
Vantel
The Hockey News
TSN
My Friend Nathan
Clarke MacArthur
and Scooby
- walshyleafsfan

oh well, then the contracts expire.
no biggie