The 2013-14 Tampa Bay Lightning. He averaged 19:08 per game. Only Victor Hedman and Matt Carle averaged more among defensemen
- Jsaquella

(It was a joke)

As I said before, you do need one guy that can provide some muscle. But unlike Grossmann and L Schenn, Seabrooke actually has hockey sense and skill. This is why I like Morin, he has all the size and snarl you need, plus decent wheels, some skill and, from what I've seen, decent hockey sense too.
- BiggE

I would disagree that Grossmann didn't have hockey sense. He was very good at reading and anticipating plays defensively. He just lacked the wheels.

Schenn handles the puck well and makes a decent first pass for a stay at home defender. His issue is inconsistency, and is caught flat footed and puck watching too often.

I personally don't feel that Coburn was good enough to fetch both a 1st round pick and a top 4 defenseman in return. If Yzerman felt that Gudas was top 4 quality, I doubt the Flyers would've gotten Gudas as part of the return. What I find most humorous is that Gudas is a top 4 based on icetime played, while the same source labels MacDonald a 3rd pair defenseman.

I personally don't feel that Coburn was good enough to fetch both a 1st round pick and a top 4 defenseman in return. If Yzerman felt that Gudas was top 4 quality, I doubt the Flyers would've gotten Gudas as part of the return. What I find most humorous is that Gudas is a top 4 based on icetime played, while the same source labels MacDonald a 3rd pair defenseman.
- MJL

I think we need some "context" on ice time. Being a top-3 defenseman in terms of ice time is different based on strength of the blue line. Being a top-4 defenseman on the Flyers or Oilers is not the same as being a top-4 on the Lightning or Blackhawks.

Actually, I have called MacDonald a 4-5 defenseman, which isn't a third pair defenseman.

Also, not calling Gudas a top 4 defenseman, I'm simply saying that labeling him as a 6-7 out of not knowing much about him is wrong. Also, saying he played the third most minutes on a playoff team isn't the same as saying he's a top 4 defenseman.

For a guy that spends countless hours arguing semantics, I would have thought mjl would recognize those differences. Of course that would mean he would have no room to run his yap for hours on end.

c'est la vie

I think we need some "context" on ice time. Being a top-3 defenseman in terms of ice time is different based on strength of the blue line. Being a top-4 defenseman on the Flyers or Oilers is not the same as being a top-4 on the Lightning or Blackhawks.
- jmatchett383

Exactly

Actually, I have called MacDonald a 4-5 defenseman, which isn't a third pair defenseman.

Also, not calling Gudas a top 4 defenseman, I'm simply saying that labeling him as a 6-7 out of not knowing much about him is wrong. Also, saying he played the third most minutes on a playoff team isn't the same as saying he's a top 4 defenseman.

For a guy that spends countless hours arguing semantics, I would have thought mjl would recognize those differences. Of course that would mean he would have no room to run his yap for hours on end.

c'est la vie
- Jsaquella

New blog

There is no semantics argument Jsaquella. When you associate the #5 when labeling a defensman, you're labeling him a 3rd pair defenseman. Whether it's in full or in part, by including a 4 with it, you're still calling him a 3rd pair defenseman. The issue is consistency. The statistic of icetime was introduced to make a rebutal to Gudas being labeled a 3rd pair defenseman. Yet MacDonald who has averaged 20+ minutes per game a season for about 6 seasons now, is a 3rd pair defenseman. There is an inconsistency there.

Hey look, he's going to try and get me to argue semantics...

If he can't understand what I'm saying, I'm not wasting my time

As I said before, you do need one guy that can provide some muscle. But unlike Grossmann and L Schenn, Seabrooke actually has hockey sense and skill. This is why I like Morin, he has all the size and snarl you need, plus decent wheels, some skill and, from what I've seen, decent hockey sense too.
- BiggE

First of all I didn't say punishing I said guys who can clear the net.

Second my argument was if morin can play third pairing minutes I'm okay dealing schenn without hesitation but we need to have the first before the second.

Third yes seabrook was their main guy but keith is also excellent in the dirty areas and cleaned the porch. Oduya is about schultz level with it and schultz would be our number 1 of schenn gudas os dealt. That's scary to think verse some these teams. I haven't watched enough runblad or roszival to know their prowess. Remember called anaheim size and speed the toughest thing they had to deal with imagine facing them with schultz as your top porch clearer

Actually, I have called MacDonald a 4-5 defenseman, which isn't a third pair defenseman.

Also, not calling Gudas a top 4 defenseman, I'm simply saying that labeling him as a 6-7 out of not knowing much about him is wrong. Also, saying he played the third most minutes on a playoff team isn't the same as saying he's a top 4 defenseman.

For a guy that spends countless hours arguing semantics, I would have thought mjl would recognize those differences. Of course that would mean he would have no room to run his yap for hours on end.

c'est la vie
- Jsaquella

As a guy who just moved back to southern new jersey from tampa and having watched plenty of lightning games just to get my hockey fix I can tell you the fan base does not miss him. Outside highlight reel hits he was about as loveable to them as rinaldo was to us. But idk I've only seen like 40 50 lightning game live and lived around the fan base for 5 years.

And thank you MJL coburn would not fetch a top flight defenseman plus 1st and 3rd rounders.

As a guy who just moved back to southern new jersey from tampa and having watched plenty of lightning games just to get my hockey fix I can tell you the fan base does not miss him. Outside highlight reel hits he was about as loveable to them as rinaldo was to us. But idk I've only seen like 40 50 lightning game live and lived around the fan base for 5 years.

And thank you MJL coburn would not fetch a top flight defenseman plus 1st and 3rd rounders.


- Tfaehner

I don't think anyone called Gudas a "top flight" defenseman. If the comparison is Luke Schenn, then it's not exactly comparing him to a top flight defenseman.

If you have seen a lot of him, great. I've only seen 10-12 of his games, so I'm only going off numbers. I know he played a good chunk of minutes for a pretty good team in 2013-14, just like I also know he's pretty undisciplined in terms of taking penalties.

As far as how he plays as a Flyer, guess we'll have to see. Maybe he'll pull a Steve Mason. Maybe he'll be a complete waste. I'm just not going to put him in a bin as no better than a 6-7 defenseman until I see more of him. I do think at best he'll be little more than a 3rd pair guy, but if he can be solid at that, that's not a bad thing to have for under $1mm

www.phillyvoice.com/fed-u..._content=072015_FedUpFans

What an idiot.