Gudas is a wild card, especailly after his knee injury. Same goes for Medvedev. They could both be average to above-average top-6 players, they could both be interchangeable 6/7 guys.
- jmatchett383

True. My only point was that replacing Luke Schenn is not exactly like replacing Shea Weber.

- jmatchett383

So Gudas is not the equal of a 3rd pair dman?

really?
- BiggE

I'm not sure there's a major dropoff, TBH. Gudas was a top 4 guy for a playoff team in 2013-14, and despite the undeserved criticism Schenn gets, I don't see a huge gap between the two.

More worried about Gudas' knee and penchant for taking penalties than whether or not he can replace what Schenn brings. To me trading Luke Schenn boils down to how much will it cost to re-sign him & where he fits moving forward. If he's not a fit, might as well flip him for assets that could help down the road.

True. My only point was that replacing Luke Schenn is not exactly like replacing Shea Weber.
- BiggE

Oh, not at all. But not all physical "stay-at-home" 5/6 defensemen are the same.

see: Gauthier, Vandermeer, etc.

Edit: McAllister, Rathje

I'm not sure there's a major dropoff, TBH. Gudas was a top 4 guy for a playoff team in 2013-14, and despite the undeserved criticism Schenn gets, I don't see a huge gap between the two.

More worried about Gudas' knee and penchant for taking penalties than whether or not he can replace what Schenn brings. To me trading Luke Schenn boils down to how much will it cost to re-sign him & where he fits moving forward. If he's not a fit, might as well flip him for assets that could help down the road.
- Jsaquella

My main concern with Gudas is how he comes off of the knee injury. He was never fast to begin with and can't afford to lose a step.

My main concern with Gudas is how he comes off of the knee injury. He was never fast to begin with and can't afford to lose a step.
- jmatchett383

Can't argue with that, but if he can be the player he was before the injury, there is no doubt in my mind that he is at least as good as Luke Schenn.

Can't argue with that, but if he can be the player he was before the injury, there is no doubt in my mind that he is at least as good as Luke Schenn.
- BiggE

Let me start by stating that I am not a big Luke Schenn fan. I don't dislike the guy, but he's nothing special to me.

That said, he has a very underrated shot. It's not an overpowering shot, but it's fairly accurate and more than that, he's good at getting it through traffic. Not Chris Pronger-esque, but hsi shots seem to rarely get blocked up high. Gudas probably has the heavier shot, but I don't know if it's accurate and if he can get it through.

Obviously, the Flyers aren't looking for big offensive numbers from these two, but I'll give the edge to Schenn. Maybe not a $2M cap space edge, but an edge.

Alright. I'm going to go out on a limb and say they won't be in a playoff spot. The flyers got grossman for a guy rumored to be getting bought out. And yes grossman was traded to Whats likely to be the worst team in the league bravo
- Just5

He was still traded. There is going to be a number of factors that determine what Hextall will do at the deadline.

Can't argue with that, but if he can be the player he was before the injury, there is no doubt in my mind that he is at least as good as Luke Schenn.
- BiggE

Again my very first point was that we are small on the back end. Coburn was big albeit soft as charmin but had average net clearing ability, grossman despite his many flaws was excellent at moving bodies, schenn is good when he focuses at clearing the net. Trading all 3 you lose any physicality left on the back end. My argument was unless you have someone ie: morin ready to go are you really prepared to go small on the back end ? I can't see hextall holmgren being partial to us being dominated in front our net.

Alright. I'm going to go out on a limb and say they won't be in a playoff spot. The flyers got grossman for a guy rumored to be getting bought out. And yes grossman was traded to Whats likely to be the worst team in the league bravo
- Just5

I don't think Grossmann was the selling point. After all, it's not every day you get to add a future HOFer like Chris Pronger to your roster.

You made a statement sometime last year in the winter that the flyers would make the playoffs. Yeah there's some real doozies thrown around by all
- Just5

You're incorrect. I never stated or predicted that the Flyers would make the playoffs. Only that I thought they could contend for a playoff spot, and that I felt they had a team that can make the playoffs. I feel the same way about this year's team.

Again my very first point was that we are small on the back end. Coburn was big albeit soft as charmin but had average net clearing ability, grossman despite his many flaws was excellent at moving bodies, schenn is good when he focuses at clearing the net. Trading all 3 you lose any physicality left on the back end. My argument was unless you have someone ie: morin ready to go are you really prepared to go small on the back end ? I can't see hextall holmgren being partial to us being dominated in front our net.
- Tfaehner

and gudas is not a schenn replacement. He's a 6/7 (as of now) whose going to add physicality to our back end especially against bigger teams like the capitals

Again my very first point was that we are small on the back end. Coburn was big albeit soft as charmin but had average net clearing ability, grossman despite his many flaws was excellent at moving bodies, schenn is good when he focuses at clearing the net. Trading all 3 you lose any physicality left on the back end. My argument was unless you have someone ie: morin ready to go are you really prepared to go small on the back end ? I can't see hextall holmgren being partial to us being dominated in front our net.
- Tfaehner

Can you please remind me of who was Chicago's punishing, net-clearing stay-at-home physical defenseman? Was it Kimmo Timonen?

My main concern with Gudas is how he comes off of the knee injury. He was never fast to begin with and can't afford to lose a step.
- jmatchett383

I agree, Gudas is going to have to prove to me that he can more than a 3rd pair defenseman. Schenn although inconsistent, at times plays at a much higher level than one would expect from a 3rd pair defenseman.

My main concern with Gudas is how he comes off of the knee injury. He was never fast to begin with and can't afford to lose a step.
- jmatchett383

Definitely a valid concern, although I'm not so sure I'd call Gudas slow. He wasn't fast, but he wasn't like Rathje out there, either.

Let me start by stating that I am not a big Luke Schenn fan. I don't dislike the guy, but he's nothing special to me.

That said, he has a very underrated shot. It's not an overpowering shot, but it's fairly accurate and more than that, he's good at getting it through traffic. Not Chris Pronger-esque, but hsi shots seem to rarely get blocked up high. Gudas probably has the heavier shot, but I don't know if it's accurate and if he can get it through.

Obviously, the Flyers aren't looking for big offensive numbers from these two, but I'll give the edge to Schenn. Maybe not a $2M cap space edge, but an edge.
- jmatchett383

Fair enough, but your last sentence is the key, IMO. 3.6 million vs a bit under 1 million makes it clear to me that if you are looking at some point to move one, it should be Schenn

Definitely a valid concern, although I'm not so sure I'd call Gudas slow. He wasn't fast, but he wasn't like Rathje out there, either.
- Jsaquella

Compared to Rathje, everyone looks like Pavel Bure out there.

and gudas is not a schenn replacement. He's a 6/7 (as of now) whose going to add physicality to our back end especially against bigger teams like the capitals
- Tfaehner

Gudas averaged the third most minutes per game on a 101 point playoff team. Let's not just call him a 6-7 because we don't know much about him.

Can you please remind me of who was Chicago's punishing, net-clearing stay-at-home physical defenseman? Was it Kimmo Timonen?
- jmatchett383

Seabrooke.

Compared to Rathje, everyone looks like Pavel Bure out there.
- jmatchett383

By the time Rathje was done, he was slower than a broken down Zamboni

Again my very first point was that we are small on the back end. Coburn was big albeit soft as charmin but had average net clearing ability, grossman despite his many flaws was excellent at moving bodies, schenn is good when he focuses at clearing the net. Trading all 3 you lose any physicality left on the back end. My argument was unless you have someone ie: morin ready to go are you really prepared to go small on the back end ? I can't see hextall holmgren being partial to us being dominated in front our net.
- Tfaehner

What 2 or 3 guys were providing all that muscle and physicality for Chicago? I do think you need one guy who can give you that element, but, IMO, one is enough.

Edit: JMatch beat me to it

Gudas averaged the third most minutes per game on a 101 point playoff team. Let's not just call him a 6-7 because we don't know much about him.
- Jsaquella

Gudas averaged the third most minutes per game on a 101 point playoff team. Let's not just call him a 6-7 because we don't know much about him.
- Jsaquella

The 11/12 Norfolk Admirals?

The 11/12 Norfolk Admirals?
- jmatchett383

The 2013-14 Tampa Bay Lightning. He averaged 19:08 per game. Only Victor Hedman and Matt Carle averaged more among defensemen

Seabrooke.
- MJL

As I said before, you do need one guy that can provide some muscle. But unlike Grossmann and L Schenn, Seabrooke actually has hockey sense and skill. This is why I like Morin, he has all the size and snarl you need, plus decent wheels, some skill and, from what I've seen, decent hockey sense too.