Players don't win championships, organizations do.
- Jerry Krause
- Cmonalready

And soon after, Jerry was gone.
So was MJ.
And nary a title sniffed since.

What was it you were saying?

Not sure what you mean by this.

I don't think there's been any admission, or even suggestion, of Kane having an alcohol abuse problem for which he would enter the NHL's program.

Am I missing something here?
- Atomic Wedgie

Hyperbole?

And soon after, Jerry was gone.
So was MJ.
And nary a title sniffed since.

What was it you were saying?
- savvyone-1

Jerry was right about this, but ironically, not in his particular case.

Some perspective from conversations with casual fans -- ie folks not posting on hockey blogs or reading every word printed about the Blackhawks or Parrick Kane and only getting news on the morning non-sports radio, FWIW. Talking to these (female) folks they got angry at the mere suggestion of trading Kane and looked at me like I was the village idiot. They believe that nothing will come of the current charges and are more than okay with him continuing to be a Hawks. In fact they expect it. Not putting it out there as anything more than some anecdotal info. But I haven't found a casual fan that thinks the Hawks organization should even consider moving Kane. That would all change of course if he's found guilty.

Interesting to me because I'm on here all the time and tend to be obsessed with reading everything I can on my favorite team. A little bit of perspective is a good thing.

Jerry was right about this, but ironically, not in his particular case.
- DirkGraham

So if he wasn't right, then he was wrong? Right?

I know this is a popular meme (organization trumps all, parts don't matter).
However, I would say it's been proved false more often than true. At least inasmuch as I can tell from the sporting world -- it's typically 1 or 2 key players that matter. Yes the organization must also be right but without those players, nothing in terms of ultimate prize is won.

Pippen w/o Jordan?
Hawks w/o Hull?

Only way I see this working is if an EQUAL replacement gets plugged in.
Take away Favre, plug in Rodgers.

No?

You must have been in a fog for about 7 years. Kaner has had multiple problems with the suds. Hanging out with his cousins and getting no meaningfully advise from his dad only made things worse. . Most people having a drinking problem have a hard time admitting that they have a problem so you are truly missing something my friend.
- spanky

I'm not missing anything, you little rascal.

I get the concern here that he has a problem.

What I haven't seen is any indication whatsoever from him that he has a problem.

So I'm a little perplexed about fans here talking about him entering rehab.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it.

I get what you're saying....but during this track record you speak of how has the actual hockey team performed, how has Kane performed along the way, or essentially how badly have his off ice issues impacted the organization's business on the ice? I think the powers that be can't ignore the answers to those questions, because winning championships in this extremely rare position(dynasty) the Hawks happen to be in trumps everything else. No way to do that in this remaining window(particularly meaning Hossa and Keith and their levels of play) if we trade Kane. Simply no way.
- SimpleJack

I really enjoy your posts, but I completely disagree with your premise that the dynasty can't continue without Kane. Even if the Hawks dealt Kane to WPG for Byfuglien and their top prospect, or a good young player contributing now, the Hawks would be in a similar position. While we would have lost Kane's scoring, clutch play and help on the PP, a lot of that would be replaced by Buff who would drastically help our PP, turn our D core into the league's best, and add his clutch play to our mix. Great teams find ways to win, and different people show up to score important goals...this has been the history of the Hawks during the run since 2009! TT is going to be a lot better, and Dano and Panarin are both going to be explosive players. I believe we have the offence to compensate for Kane, and with any deal for Kane we should get better defensively (as well as much more Cap compliant).

Again, thanks for all your contributions here.

I'm not missing anything, you little rascal.

I get the concern here that he has a problem.

What I haven't seen is any indication whatsoever from him that he has a problem.

So I'm a little perplexed about fans here talking about him entering rehab.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it.
- Atomic Wedgie

ha.

I would think, unless they get a deal they can't refuse, trading Patrick Kane would be a disaster of epic proportions. I for one, would be very pissed if they did deal him unless he was criminally charged and convicted.
- hawkfan79

If he's charged and convicted they won't be trading him.

So if he wasn't right, then he was wrong? Right?

I know this is a popular meme (organization trumps all, parts don't matter).
However, I would say it's been proved false more often than true. At least inasmuch as I can tell from the sporting world -- it's typically 1 or 2 key players that matter. Yes the organization must also be right but without those players, nothing in terms of ultimate prize is won.

Pippen w/o Jordan?
Hawks w/o Hull?

Only way I see this working is if an EQUAL replacement gets plugged in.
Take away Favre, plug in Rodgers.

No?
- savvyone-1

I agree you need your parts. No argument. I'm just saying I think this team could move on and remain strong if PK had to depart. They still have enough of a core intact to do so. And, I presumed a strong return for Kane if he left, which you suggest as well.

So if he wasn't right, then he was wrong? Right?

I know this is a popular meme (organization trumps all, parts don't matter).
However, I would say it's been proved false more often than true. At least inasmuch as I can tell from the sporting world -- it's typically 1 or 2 key players that matter. Yes the organization must also be right but without those players, nothing in terms of ultimate prize is won.

Pippen w/o Jordan?
Hawks w/o Hull?

Only way I see this working is if an EQUAL replacement gets plugged in.
Take away Favre, plug in Rodgers.

No?
- savvyone-1

I'd argue that in the salary cap NHL era, the actions of the Chicago Blackhawks are the solid gold model of how to do it.

Although I'd probably argue that you have more than 1 or 2 key players.

Get 3-5, lock them up for life, and then get other guys to fill roles. You can always get guys to fill roles.

How upset were you when you lost Bolland? He seemed like a pretty key role player. Many thought that you wouldn't be able to replace him. How did that work out for you?

How about Campbell?

So if he wasn't right, then he was wrong? Right?

I know this is a popular meme (organization trumps all, parts don't matter).
However, I would say it's been proved false more often than true. At least inasmuch as I can tell from the sporting world -- it's typically 1 or 2 key players that matter. Yes the organization must also be right but without those players, nothing in terms of ultimate prize is won.

Pippen w/o Jordan?
Hawks w/o Hull?

Only way I see this working is if an EQUAL replacement gets plugged in.
Take away Favre, plug in Rodgers.

No?
- savvyone-1

As a Bears fan I still can't fathom this. It hurts.

I'd argue that in the salary cap NHL era, the actions of the Chicago Blackhawks are the solid gold model of how to do it.

Although I'd probably argue that you have more than 1 or 2 key players.

Get 3-5, lock them up for life, and then get other guys to fill roles. You can always get guys to fill roles.

How upset were you when you lost Bolland? He seemed like a pretty key role player. Many thought that you wouldn't be able to replace him. How did that work out for you?

How about Campbell?
- Atomic Wedgie

I think we're more in agreement than disagreement. Not saying they CANNOT win another Cup w/o Kane -- but I think it will be awfully tough to do so and will depend on the outcome if he is guilty (and supsended, with cap hit coming off?), not guilty and traded -- need to plug in a piece or pieces that make it work.

Let's reverse this -- and say it was Toews being traded.
Do Hawks win replacing him?

Really, my question is: who is Michael Jordan and who is Scotty Pippen?
And don't forget, we saw Jordan, w/o Pippen (and w/o the "right" supporting cast) and that Jordan did not win much of anything.

This!
- HawkintheD

I'm not really religious but these are all interesting things to hope and pray for.

Your statement says it all really. Bolland and Campbell were off loaded due to the Cap not becasue they were repeatedly shaming themselves and the team in the press...if Kane does in fact end up being traded. If it was Dezy, Shaw or Krugs and this was the latest apparent transgression in a formidable line of them would you care as much? Just curious.

I think what's sad is you hoping to stick it to anyone who's thoughts vary from yours like what any of us say here really matters.

The Hawks will make their decision independent of what any of us think. In the meantime, I'll support the guys who apparently get it...like 2, 4, 7, 11, 16, 19, 33, 50, 57, 65, 86...ok 5 too.

So what you are saying is you are supporting 88 even though he has not been charged with anything,,,VERY SAD

Without Patrick Kane, the Blackhawks would have 0 cups in last 6 years instead of 3.
If he's not guilty, this trade talk is absolute ludicrous.


- eyewtkas

So very true!!!

If they had traded him in the summer of 2012, you are certain the return would not have been enough to help them win Cups 2 and/or 3?

I don't know that, neither do you.

This seems to assume either that the Hawks would just leave Kane by the road somewhere or that the return would be Ulf Dahlen. Neither is likely the case.

You just can't make these absolute statements.
- John Jaeckel

JJ: maybe the first time ever I am disagreeing with you. IMO, they don't win any of the 3 cups without Kane and the last thing I want to see is this guy gone unless its proven that he DID rape the girl

I would say higher than top 10 closer to top 6 but I think this club fit him better than any other situation in the NHL.
- Al

How about top 4 no less

I really enjoy your posts, but I completely disagree with your premise that the dynasty can't continue without Kane. Even if the Hawks dealt Kane to WPG for Byfuglien and their top prospect, or a good young player contributing now, the Hawks would be in a similar position. While we would have lost Kane's scoring, clutch play and help on the PP, a lot of that would be replaced by Buff who would drastically help our PP, turn our D core into the league's best, and add his clutch play to our mix. Great teams find ways to win, and different people show up to score important goals...this has been the history of the Hawks during the run since 2009! TT is going to be a lot better, and Dano and Panarin are both going to be explosive players. I believe we have the offence to compensate for Kane, and with any deal for Kane we should get better defensively (as well as much more Cap compliant).

Again, thanks for all your contributions here.
- MexicoHawk

C'mon Mex, I love Buff, but who's going to make up the goals and assists of Kane's

I think we're more in agreement than disagreement. Not saying they CANNOT win another Cup w/o Kane -- but I think it will be awfully tough to do so and will depend on the outcome if he is guilty (and supsended, with cap hit coming off?), not guilty and traded -- need to plug in a piece or pieces that make it work.

Let's reverse this -- and say it was Toews being traded.
Do Hawks win replacing him?

Really, my question is: who is Michael Jordan and who is Scotty Pippen?
And don't forget, we saw Jordan, w/o Pippen (and w/o the "right" supporting cast) and that Jordan did not win much of anything.
- savvyone-1

As an outsider, I'd easily say that your Toews is more important than your Kane. My opinion. But by their position alone, I'll always maintain a centre is more important than a winger.

This whole thing is probably going to be very uncomfortable for your organization, if nothing changes before training camp. Legally, I don't think you can tell Kane to stay home if no charges are laid. But it's surely a distraction the Blackhawks don't want.

With this and the Mike Richards case, the NHL has some sticky business ahead. Cap hits are going to be a big issue. Richards' case is probably easier for the NHL to deal with, as long as they have a ruling by opening night.

This whole Kane thing? Who knows when it gets sorted out.

The holier than thou crowd have spoken, Get the Drunk Rapist out of town. The sooner the better. Can't tarnish McD's classy brand. Funny how most whine about all these Kane transgressions... The cabbie insident was a joke, did he put the guy in the hospital or just slap him up side the head a few times like a young idiot.. Was it him or was it his cousin. A drunk weekend in Wisconsin. Any charges from the police that weekend... NO. And it didn't stop them from signing him to a giant long term deal. Now this charge! Is it true? We don't know. Did she say NO in the middle of the act, we don't know. But it's to much drama so get rid of him. Screw Kane, he ruined our summer! He's been a little punk for years... No waiting to see if Parerin or Dano can somehow take his place. Trade him now..... NOOOOO, don't make rash decisions ... You have to back him until there is an indictment, if there even is one. Then you saints can throw him to the wolves....because for all we know he went home with a woman who whispered in his ear all night (frank) me silly, until he bit her shoulder and then she might have said stop... Did he, we don't know!!!
- moots

wut.

As a Bears fan I still can't fathom this. It hurts.
- HawkintheD

Absolutely brutal. I would say "unfair" but its not like that. Those bumholes up in GB are just smart and good at running an NFL franchise.

Those running the show here just haven't been good.

So what you are saying is you are supporting 88 even though he has not been charged with anything,,,VERY SAD
- Maggie

What's sad is you have a grown man on the verge of being paid $10.5 mil / year and is the face of the franchise who can't figure out how to keep his mug out of the press in a negative way.

My guess is if he didn't mean as much to the franchise he wouldn't have your support either regardless of whether he's been charged with anything.

What's sad is you have a grown man on the verge of being paid $10.5 mil / year and is the face of the franchise who can't figure out how to keep his mug out of the press in a negative way.

My guess is if he didn't mean as much to the franchise he wouldn't have your support either regardless of whether he's been charged with anything.
- HawkintheD

But Hawk, unless you have a direct line to Hamburg police you don't really know if he did anything, including being set up for a payoff, right?

Absolutely brutal. I would say "unfair" but its not like that. Those bumholes up in GB are just smart and good at running an NFL franchise.

Those running the show here just haven't been good.
- BlazinMike

Too true Mike. Just sucks that in our lifetimes they haven't been able to identify a guy you'd say has generational talent once. McMahon was ok but not really what I'm talking about.

But Hawk, unless you have a direct line to Hamburg police you don't really know if he did anything, including being set up for a payoff, right?
- Maggie

Correct, nobody knows if he did anything. But everybody should know that he should be smarter than to get himself in that situation.