Here's how I see it. John McDonough has his day with the cup. Supposed to be a happy day. Do you think people want to talk about how exciting the cup run was or what's up with the Kane situation? THAT's the problem. Innocent or guilty doesn't matter. I'm sure everyone who has a day with the cup has had enough. If they can't trust Kane (or anybody else for that matter) they will move him when they can. If they do I hope they hold out for a good package and not just dump him for anything like the old man would have ordered them to do.
Here's how I see it. John McDonough has his day with the cup. Supposed to be a happy day. Do you think people want to talk about how exciting the cup run was or what's up with the Kane situation? THAT's the problem. Innocent or guilty doesn't matter. I'm sure everyone who has a day with the cup has had enough. If they can't trust Kane (or anybody else for that matter) they will move him when they can. If they do I hope they hold out for a good package and not just dump him for anything like the old man would have ordered them to do. - 6628
John McDonough doesnt get his day with the Cup without Kane.... I know I've had enough of Winning Cups, especially when Team Executives are "annoyed" by questions about a non-criminal activity
Location: Turning a new Leaf, CA Joined: 09.29.2010
Aug 25 @ 11:40 AM ET
Major reporter is Friedman, McKenzie, Dreger, LeBrun, etc. The ones worth following on twitter because they are undeniably working with reliable sources. Much of it comes with the territory of their positions they inherit.
Since Bowman was with CHI for basically their entire rebuild, I fail to see how he isn't at least somewhat commendable for being part of the team's core. Wilson, McPhee, and Shero all had very good cores at one point with SJS, PIT, and WSH respectively and haven't had near the same amount of success. Bowman being well ahead of the curve on analytics is also hugely underrated as it is basically impossible to have a consistently competitive team without having strong team underlying numbers. CHI also has a solid future outlook which many GMs failed to maintain during their tenure with SC contenders. - jfkst1
dreger
that guy is a complete mook or turd. all i see him doing is regurgitating stuff other people have already reported... he's always getting stuff wrong about the Nux or looks like he's making shiite up on the fly.... the other guys are credible... imo
I say this as someone who has dealt with alcoholics in all phases of my life and recently quite a bit in clinical settings . . . there are varying degrees. Some, like this kid, it's almost like an allergic reaction/complete physical transformation. Others more subtle, harder to notice.
Generally, the common denominators are regular drunkenness when drinking (duh), but alcoholics have a very hard to impossible time drinking without getting somewhat intoxicated. They have a hard time just stopping at 1-2. Some simply can't. Some can but it is literally a physical struggle, and generally, when they can do so, they will imbibe freely to the point of intoxication.
They will promise to cut down or quit, repeatedly, and never do it or maintain it.
Those are alcoholics. And yes, generally, over time, they will have consequences. Job loss, DUI, fights, divorces, etc. - John Jaeckel
Addiction is a truly devastating disease. Unless the addict seeks help to get clean they will inevitably destroy their life and possibly the lives of those closest to them.
If an addict refuses to change then the people in their lives need to separate themselves from the addict for their own well being. Plus, if the addict loses their support network they are one step closer to getting help (hopefully).
I can't speak to the depth of Kane's alcohol issues. But if Kane is an addict and there have been ongoing issues then the Blackhawks have to decide if it's time to create that separation from Kane.
I think it should also be noted that if Kane is an addict that is still not an excuse for his recent behaviour (if he is guilty). There is a big difference between being an addict and committing a heinous crime like rape.
Location: Turning a new Leaf, CA Joined: 09.29.2010
Aug 25 @ 11:49 AM ET
To further the point Hockey is "sports entertainment" and if a player does something to ruin the reputation of the franchise or league they will get banned. Why because they loose dollars. (people protest and stop watching)
The plumber gets fired and goes to another job and does work for people and they have no idea he was convicted or don't care.
One example is the Dixie Chicks bad mouthing the country they did not commit a crime but they ruined there reputation with country music fans and lost money.
So will Kane never play Hockey again? The question is will he ever make the amount of money he signed for again. He could end up in a Moscow men's league playing for vodka. - DestinBlackhawk
True. I still despise the Dixie Chicks. Bad mouthing toby keith isn't a good idea in my books. the guy is a patriot.
John McDonough doesnt get his day with the Cup without Kane.... I know I've had enough of Winning Cups, especially when Team Executives are "annoyed" by questions about a non-criminal activity - EnzoD
Kane put himself in a situation where his name is being dragged through the mud. Of course the Team's Executives are annoyed, or worse. And remember no matter what happens there will be some who view him as guilty, justified or otherwise. Kane is such an idiot for putting himself in this situation. McDonough has nothing to do with any of this, Kane is fully responsible for this dilemma, I just hope he didn't do what he's being accused of.
Location: The centre of the hockey universe Joined: 07.31.2006
Aug 25 @ 11:55 AM ET
No way in hell they terminate his contract. Why would they?
They won't get full hockey value in a trade, but they'll get at least 1 very good piece and probably more. They won't terminate and let him walk for nothing except cap space. - Interloper
To state the obvious, everything hinges on what happens with the legal case.
It will be interesting to see what happens between now and training camp - I'm guessing that if nothing happens (i.e., no charges laid), he will be allowed to participate in training camp.
Addiction is a truly devastating disease. Unless the addict seeks help to get clean they will inevitably destroy their life and possibly the lives of those closest to them.
If an addict refuses to change then the people in their lives need to separate themselves from the addict for their own well being. Plus, if the addict loses their support network they are one step closer to getting help (hopefully).
I can't speak to the depth of Kane's alcohol issues. But if Kane is an addict and there have been ongoing issues then the Blackhawks have to decide if it's time to create that separation from Kane. - DarthKane
I've been thinking a great deal about this for as long as the news of this first came out. I know the Hawks have stood by Kane in the past, and they may decide that now is the time to move on, regardless of the outcome of the allegations. However, in the event charges are never filed, or a settlement occurs, I hope that the focus really becomes that this young man needs help, and I pray that Patrick has finally hit a point where he sees it and acknowledges it. While I would be understanding if the team decided to move on, I would hope for a best scenario where 1) PK admits a need for help, 2)Hawks sit him out a season or more to get that help and 3)the Hawks show that the quick and easy road (moving on without him) is not always the best answer.
I get the whole, it's a sport, money, had his chances, not fair to teammates, not fair to the girl (if he's convicted, then that's totally a different story) arguments you can make, and suspect a lot of you will disagree with me, but this is my hope. I love watching and playing hockey as much as anyone, but when it comes to life, it is way too short, and the focus and care that could be demonstrated (and has been in regards to Kane) would set a great example to the league, and it's players. Alcohol addiction is a demon I don't want to see my worst enemy have to endure on any day. I've lived with it in my family, and my heart breaks for PK, and anyone who suffers with this demon. It's easy to say it's a choice, but for any family that has seen their loved one die, and have read their journals during their rehab, you realize differently.
I've been thinking a great deal about this for as long as the news of this first came out. I know the Hawks have stood by Kane in the past, and they may decide that now is the time to move on, regardless of the outcome of the allegations. However, in the event charges are never filed, or a settlement occurs, I hope that the focus really becomes that this young man needs help, and I pray that Patrick has finally hit a point where he sees it and acknowledges it. While I would be understanding if the team decided to move on, I would hope for a best scenario where 1) PK admits a need for help, 2)Hawks sit him out a season or more to get that help and 3)the Hawks show that the quick and easy road (moving on without him) is not always the best answer.
I get the whole, it's a sport, money, had his chances, not fair to teammates, not fair to the girl (if he's convicted, then that's totally a different story) arguments you can make, and suspect a lot of you will disagree with me, but this is my hope. I love watching and playing hockey as much as anyone, but when it comes to life, it is way too short, and the focus and care that could be demonstrated (and has been in regards to Kane) would set a great example to the league, and it's players. Alcohol addiction is a demon I don't want to see my worst enemy have to endure on any day. I've lived with it in my family, and my heart breaks for PK, and anyone who suffers with this demon. It's easy to say it's a choice, but for any family that has seen their loved one die, and have read their journals during their rehab, you realize differently. - resqmed99
If Kane has addiction issues then we all hope he gets help. But the issue is the Hawks truly believing that Kane wants help and wants to change his ways. Addicts will tell you they are willing to change to get out of any trouble they are currently in. Unfortunately it's not as easy as 'Kane says he wants help so things will get better'. Based on Kane's long term behaviour the Blackhawks need to decide if he's truly ready for recovery (and help him accordingly) or separate themselves from him. It won't be an easy decision for the club, I'm sure they want to believe Kane, but for anyone who has experienced an addict's history of broken promises you know that wanting to believe just isn't enough.
There's a bigger picture here than innocence versus guilt. Not such a sharp line. Athletes are targets in some ways, based on their money, their celebrity, their youth and inexperience. All athletes, and especially stars, need to conduct themselves with a certain level of care, skepticism. That's the price they pay for their huge salaries. Is that fair...who cares...we could argue either side, but fair doesnt matter, it is simply reality. Athletes like Kane are taught to use a condom and to take the condom with them when they leave. crazy world.
Even if Kane is 100% innocent of rape or anything close to rape, he is 100% guilty of not following the special rules that athletes like him are required to follow. The mere fact that he is in this pickle is an indictment of his acceptance of the responsibility and his ability to manage his image. The Blackhawks have made a $70+ million salary investment in his hockey ability. But their investment in him as the face (w Toews) of the franchise is worth more than that. Chevy and other advertisers have made huge investments in him. With those investments (and the cash in his pocket) come the responsibility for Kane to manage his image, avoid situations like this.
Through multiple examples, he has shown that investing in his image is a risky investment for the Hawks and advertisers. Forget about pure hockey. Pure hockey, he was worth a $70m contract last year, and is still worth $70m today. Open your mind to the rest. If you were running Chevy's advertising, would you continue to invest in Kane's image, continue to take that risk? If you're the Blackhawks, do you continue to promote Kane as the face of your franchise?
That's the "business decision" to which JJ and Mex are alluding. You and I are only interested in Kane as a hockey talent. I'd hate to lose the fun I have watching him. But to the Hawks, his hockey ability is only a part of the overall picture. And it is a FACT that he's personally responsible for making himself a risky investment for the Hawks going forward. - Cmonalready
I agree to some extent. And yes you are somewhat correct when you claim that I am looking at it at mostly a hockey point of view. I am because that is the game I love. All I have to say about it on the outside of hockey is how bad did it turn out in LA for kobe. Pittsburgh for big Ben, once again LA for doughty.
IMO Kane is free to rent a cabana at a upscale dance club, have some drinks with friends/associates and mingle with whoever he chooses to. I would imagine there were MANY people trying to hang with a celebrity. Skybar is a young persons club, a place to meet people, to hook up. He probably stayed too long, soaking up the attention, to let go and party. Apparently he was smart enough to (preplan) and be driven home, not drive himself. There has been no mention of anyone of his friends going back to his house, only two nameless women, unless I missed something. Obviously he has a weakness when it comes to females, there is history there and he is not the first guy with that issue. What happened after they got back to his house is speculation, so I won't go there.
The real issue (hocky-wise) is no matter what happens from now on, he has damaged his "brand", the Blackhawks and the NHL's. My MIL said she would have problems wearing his jersey again, is that the same perception league wide? Ask yourself if you would wear a #88. For now he is still my favorite player on the ice, I have 3 of his jerseys and a couple shirts, it would be a real shame if I no longer can wear them with pride.
I'm not going to comment on motives or the possibility of wrong doing other than this, in my adult life I have brought home a lady that I met at a bar on several occasions. Each time we both knew why we were going, no matter how many drinks we had.
I say this as someone who has dealt with alcoholics in all phases of my life and recently quite a bit in clinical settings . . . there are varying degrees. Some, like this kid, it's almost like an allergic reaction/complete physical transformation. Others more subtle, harder to notice.
Generally, the common denominators are regular drunkenness when drinking (duh), but alcoholics have a very hard to impossible time drinking without getting somewhat intoxicated. They have a hard time just stopping at 1-2. Some simply can't. Some can but it is literally a physical struggle, and generally, when they can do so, they will imbibe freely to the point of intoxication.
They will promise to cut down or quit, repeatedly, and never do it or maintain it.
Those are alcoholics. And yes, generally, over time, they will have consequences. Job loss, DUI, fights, divorces, etc. - John Jaeckel
As far as alcoholics...I have know many who are mainly functional. I also have known some that no matter that they drink everyday they never build up a tolerance. One person was a 3 beer guy, after the 3rd he was gone...Some people it would take a 12 pack to be as smashed he would get.
In the opposite regard ...A recent example of someone who built up a great tolerance
is Darryl Sydor, who was caught recently driving his kid to a hockey game and had a 3.0 blood alcohol level....That's coma territory, or near death, but this guy was able to drive to some degree.
Not only the mental issues involved but everyone's body chemistry is different and some can appear not drunk while consuming a lot while others never build up a tolerance.
Here's how I see it. John McDonough has his day with the cup. Supposed to be a happy day. Do you think people want to talk about how exciting the cup run was or what's up with the Kane situation? THAT's the problem. Innocent or guilty doesn't matter. I'm sure everyone who has a day with the cup has had enough. If they can't trust Kane (or anybody else for that matter) they will move him when they can. If they do I hope they hold out for a good package and not just dump him for anything like the old man would have ordered them to do. - 6628
Like Bill Wirtz did with Belfour...I don't see that happening.
I am not saying they should trade Kane. There is a scenario out there where he stays and it's great for him and the team.
I AM saying I believe they may have to make a business decision that some fans just won't accept. - John Jaeckel
Once again, sorry JJ. I need to stop checking back to this page until this goes away. Reading your writing and comment section is basically my escape from work (and a lot of after work) for years now, and this is just beyond frustrating to read about every day at this point. I am looking at it as a hockey fan maybe too much, but blowing up a dynasty is the last thing I want to see. Going back to average, possibly not seeing playoff hockey, and sinking away from the title of cup contenders is not something I'm excited about going back to this soon. As much as this hurts the brand, I'm sure sinking back to mediocrity will hurt as well. Once again, your writing is amazing and I thank you for it. Sorry I snapped.
IMO Kane is free to rent a cabana at a upscale dance club, have some drinks with friends/associates and mingle with whoever he chooses to. I would imagine there were MANY people trying to hang with a celebrity. Skybar is a young persons club, a place to meet people, to hook up. He probably stayed too long, soaking up the attention, to let go and party. Apparently he was smart enough to (preplan) and be driven home, not drive himself. There has been no mention of anyone of his friends going back to his house, only two nameless women, unless I missed something. Obviously he has a weakness when it comes to females, there is history there and he is not the first guy with that issue. What happened after they got back to his house is speculation, so I won't go there.
The real issue (hocky-wise) is no matter what happens from now on, he has damaged his "brand", the Blackhawks and the NHL's. My MIL said she would have problems wearing his jersey again, is that the same perception league wide? Ask yourself if you would wear a #88. For now he is still my favorite player on the ice, I have 3 of his jerseys and a couple shirts, it would be a real shame if I no longer can wear them with pride.
I'm not going to comment on motives or the possibility of wrong doing other than this, in my adult life I have brought home a lady that I met at a bar on several occasions. Each time we both knew why we were going, no matter how many drinks we had. - Cup-Bearer
A friend of mine I hung out with and worked with back in Buffalo has been living in Chicago for the past handful of years. He has had HUGE pride in Kane with him being from our hometown and all.
I messaged him as this stuff broke and he said he quickly threw out his Kane shirt.
If I had anything Kane, I wouldn't wear it either (I only have 2 jerseys, received as gifts, both are blank still FWIW).
Location: The centre of the hockey universe Joined: 07.31.2006
Aug 25 @ 12:33 PM ET
Alot of interesting opinions here.
IMO Kane is free to rent a cabana at a upscale dance club, have some drinks with friends/associates and mingle with whoever he chooses to. I would imagine there were MANY people trying to hang with a celebrity. Skybar is a young persons club, a place to meet people, to hook up. He probably stayed too long, soaking up the attention, to let go and party. Apparently he was smart enough to (preplan) and be driven home, not drive himself. There has been no mention of anyone of his friends going back to his house, only two nameless women, unless I missed something. Obviously he has a weakness when it comes to females, there is history there and he is not the first guy with that issue. What happened after they got back to his house is speculation, so I won't go there.
. - Cup-Bearer
There was a male friend of Kane's according to reports.
"According to published reports, Kane and friends went to SkyBar, a Buffalo nightclub, on the evening of Saturday, Aug. 1. There he met several women and proceeded to have drinks with them. By early Sunday, Aug. 2, Kane allegedly invited the women to a “private party” at his home in Hamburg. Kane then had his private driver take him, along with a male friend and the two women, to Kane’s home where one of the women asserts that Kane followed her into a room and overpowered her. He then allegedly raped her and caused other injuries, including bite marks on her shoulders and a noticeable scratch or scratches on her leg."
"According to published reports, Kane and friends went to SkyBar, a Buffalo nightclub, on the evening of Saturday, Aug. 1. There he met several women and proceeded to have drinks with them. By early Sunday, Aug. 2, Kane allegedly invited the women to a “private party” at his home in Hamburg. Kane then had his private driver take him, along with a male friend and the two women, to Kane’s home where one of the women asserts that Kane followed her into a room and overpowered her. He then allegedly raped her and caused other injuries, including bite marks on her shoulders and a noticeable scratch or scratches on her leg." - Atomic Wedgie
mark Girodano at 6 year and 6.75 mil makes me feel like getting Seabs done at 7 year and 6 mil could very well happen IMO. I do like the fact we are bringing in younger wings. DANO-20, TT-21, PANARIN-23. We need to start bringing some youth to the D. Beyond young, I also want to see guys that are top 4 pontenital not bottom 3 d men. Runblad and TVR celings are both bottom pairing guys IMO. I thought Johns could have been a top 4 guy, and possible Pokka, Forsling, Snuggard. No idea about Gusttaffson or Press or Jardine.
The Hawks may reach a point with #88 where the 2 major issues have to be separated, the on ice from the off ice , hawks brass should and will support Patrick thru a difficult time. Do everything possible to assist him but that may mean he will not be on the ice for the hawks while issues are handled and a return to the ice can be the goal. JJ you are correct, the only person that can help an addict is the addict. I want to believe that once a hawk always a hawk but good health and clarity are paramount when recovering.
I'm sure they want to believe Kane, but for anyone who has experienced an addict's history of broken promises you know that wanting to believe just isn't enough. - DarthKane
Totally agree. Been/continue to be burned by this. That's why I hope that he moves forward and acknowledges the need for help, and does it. That would be the biggest story, and win, of his life.
I know I've had enough of Winning Cups, especially when Team Executives are "annoyed" by questions about a non-criminal activity 
