I hear this argument all the time that suspending players is depriving them of plying their trade and denying them a livelihood. There are other places to play hockey besides the NHL. They can play in the SEL, the KHL, and other leagues in Germany, Finland, and Switzerland. In most cases the salary will be less but they can still make a living. IMO this is a irrelevant argument.
- anmcdermid

So if you're a plumber or an electrician & are charged with an offence, not only do you complete the lawful sanctions but then have to go 'elsewhere' to be employed?

If you don't have to as a plumber or electrician, why should you as a hockey player?

So if you're a plumber or an electrician & are charged with an offence, not only do you complete the lawful sanctions but then have to go 'elsewhere' to be employed?

If you don't have to as a plumber or electrician, why should you as a hockey player?
- Aussiepenguin

Depending on the language in your cba (most plumbers and electricians are Union represented) possibly? However in the context of skilled labor the union is frequently strong enough to avoid language like that from getting in. I did one with a weak manufacturers Union where the employees had a propensity for being drunk and hung over and there was very strict off duty code of conduct language where they could be fired and deprived of their license. Long answer for "yes."

Depending on the language in your cba (most plumbers and electricians are Union represented) possibly? However in the context of skilled labor the union is frequently strong enough to avoid language like that from getting in. I did one with a weak manufacturers Union where the employees had a propensity for being drunk and hung over and there was very strict off duty code of conduct language where they could be fired and deprived of their license. Long answer for "yes."
- UCSB616

Not sure of the regulations for trades in your different states, but if an electrician in Cali gets done DUI & has a record, can't he still get another job in Cali (that's if his previous employer fired him)? He doesn't get banned from the whole USA??

This is what I'm saying for hockey players. You get fired by the Kings for DUI (depending on how good a player you are that probably won't happen if you have a reasonable cap hit ), you still should be able to play with SJ?

The wings won 3 cups in 6 years in 97, 98, and 2002. Ken Holland inherited a great team after 97, went on to repeat, then built another Stanley cup winning team who almost repeated 10 years later. All without ever having a first pick before 15.
- ezekial

No way comparing pre-salary cap is remotely fair. Holland has certainly done well in his position, but one SC victory post lockout doesn't make it a very even comparison. Lots of teams have wasted top picks too.

Kopitar
Carter
Gaborik
Doughty
Brown (when his head is out of his ass)
Muzzin

LA doesn't have a seabrook but that's pretty damn close.
- KINGS67

Dean didn't inherit that core. He assembled it. So what's your point?

Dean Lombardi

And actually Bowman didn't even draft or trade for Kane toews seabrook hjalmarsson Keith sharp, he was handed them.

Until he builds his own team, id say DL is the better GM
- KINGS67

I'm not sure I disagree. Dean built that team.

Major reporter is Friedman, McKenzie, Dreger, LeBrun, etc. The ones worth following on twitter because they are undeniably working with reliable sources. Much of it comes with the territory of their positions they inherit.
Since Bowman was with CHI for basically their entire rebuild, I fail to see how he isn't at least somewhat commendable for being part of the team's core. Wilson, McPhee, and Shero all had very good cores at one point with SJS, PIT, and WSH respectively and haven't had near the same amount of success. Bowman being well ahead of the curve on analytics is also hugely underrated as it is basically impossible to have a consistently competitive team without having strong team underlying numbers. CHI also has a solid future outlook which many GMs failed to maintain during their tenure with SC contenders.
- jfkst1

Correct.

Major reporter is Friedman, McKenzie, Dreger, LeBrun, etc. The ones worth following on twitter because they are undeniably working with reliable sources. Much of it comes with the territory of their positions they inherit.
Since Bowman was with CHI for basically their entire rebuild, I fail to see how he isn't at least somewhat commendable for being part of the team's core. Wilson, McPhee, and Shero all had very good cores at one point with SJS, PIT, and WSH respectively and haven't had near the same amount of success. Bowman being well ahead of the curve on analytics is also hugely underrated as it is basically impossible to have a consistently competitive team without having strong team underlying numbers. CHI also has a solid future outlook which many GMs failed to maintain during their tenure with SC contenders.
- jfkst1

He was Assistant GM in charge of the cap.

The credit for building the core goes to Mike Smith, Rick Dudley and Marshall Johnston and later Dale Tallon. Period.

First to rely on it heavily in decision making for personnel decisions. I don't see how Murray could even be a remote consideration given what you already stated; he has zero SC wins as a GM and he also has inherited a nice core when he ascended into the GM position. I think almost all would identify Bowman as the best and it's hard to deny the results.
- jfkst1

It's your opinion, and probably not accurate, because most people who aren't arguing this point strenuously on a message board recognize the obvious: Bowman inherited the best core of young, quality players assembled probably in a couple of decades (since the Oilers).

Glad the Hawks missed on Ehrhoff. Skinner isn't coming to Chicago. The Crawford deal to WPG? For Pavelec? *sigh*.

Bickell is NOT a solid 2-way player. No one is trading for Kane while this mess is going on.
- TTtime

If that were to happen, it would not be straight up. WPG would include a very highly rated prospect (or two). No one I believe has said or implied it would be straight up, but whatever.

Every player brought in has good underlying numbers in possession and/or production. That might correspond to film study and manifest on the ice, but the link with the data is clear.
There's no doubt that Bowman inherited a great situation when he assumed GM duties. However, to ignore the overwhelming disparity between his accomplishments and every other GMs during his tenure is supremely dismissive. They are the only dynasty in the modern era.
- jfkst1

His "accomplishments" have 85-90% to do with what he inherited. But it's broken record time and you aren't listening.

Was it Howard Berger?
- ClarksonDavid

No, and I'm not saying who it was.

With training camp opening on Sept. 18, when are the mandatory physicals. (Bickell)

Too many posts for me today. I'm out for a while.

His "accomplishments" have 85-90% to do with what he inherited. But it's broken record time and you aren't listening.
- John Jaeckel

More that I'm not agreeing as the results are in accordance with my position. Only GM that even is remotely comparable is Lombardi.

With training camp opening on Sept. 18, when are the mandatory physicals. (Bickell)
- walter34

If I'm not mistaken camp opens with physicals and conditioning tests.

What's your point? Bicks is fine...and he'll pass any test given to him.

If they traded Kane now the new team would be on the hook for 77 mil correct OR 9.6 mil per year for 8 years correct? and if he is traded next year it would be a 7 year 63.5 mil contract or 9 mil per season. even thought his Cap hit is 10.5. I thought the 1st couple years he gets 13.5 mil per season and 7 Mil bonus on 7/1?

No way comparing pre-salary cap is remotely fair. Holland has certainly done well in his position, but one SC victory post lockout doesn't make it a very even comparison. Lots of teams have wasted top picks too.
- jfkst1

So you think Stan is better? I certainly don't. What has Stan even really done, you can barely say he's built a SC winning team, at least with Kenny one of them was mostly all his guys. Yea sure top picks are wasted, that doesn't mean you aren't way more likely to get a top tier talent in the top 15. Many people view Holland as the top GM in the league, sure he's had a couple unlucky FA signings of late but overall the dude knows how to run a team with homegrown talent.

I guess the problem I have.....is show me where anyone here thinks they will get equal value?
Fans from other teams are coming here to gloat about the position the team is in. And I do not believe they could get equal value considering the situation. But posters such as yourself throwing out ridiculous trade scenarios(like above) are no more likely to happen then us swapping Kane for Stamkos!
- camfor

I'm not "throwing out " ridiculous trade scenarios " or "gloating" .... I specifically said " no one on chicago's side would make that trade" ... And gloating... Dude you guys have three cups and a star player with substance abuse issues.... I feel bad for Chicago fans that they might not get the chance to defend their cup.... And I especially feel bad for Kane ... It's a sickness and it needs to be dealt with as we can all appreciate Kane's talents for years to come.. I also made the point in my original post that I would only speak from a pens fan perspective .... There are 28 other teams in the league

It's your opinion, and probably not accurate, because most people who aren't arguing this point strenuously on a message board recognize the obvious: Bowman inherited the best core of young, quality players assembled probably in a couple of decades (since the Oilers).
- John Jaeckel

Very true he did inherit it but Stan being here set off a chain of events that would change this franchise forever, his dad Scotty coming over here and Savard getting fired 4 games into the season and the outstanding Coach Q taking over.

Picking Hjalmarrson over Niemi, Keith to his lifetime contract. Trading Campbell when he was untradeable, Saad in the 2nd round, TT late in the first round, 2 more cups, if you look at Pittsbirgh you could say they were a mirror image of us but made the wrong decisions which cost them, look at Boston and LA they're falling and falling fast but yet here we sit with what I think was a brilliant move getting AA and Dano, even Daley, Panarin. This GM has done so much with his hands tied but gets minimal credit. Tallon gets so much credit yet he almost destroyed this team and successive Cup runs with the restricted offer sheet mega blunder

Is he the best gm, I don't know he's not the worst gm, all I know is based on his moves and not buying into other people's opinions of who the core players are he's holding up 3 Stanley Cup Rings and last I checked that's the most in a salary cap era so I guess that would make him the best gm

So you think Stan is better? I certainly don't. What has Stan even really done, you can barely say he's built a SC winning team, at least with Kenny one of them was mostly all his guys. Yea sure top picks are wasted, that doesn't mean you aren't way more likely to get a top tier talent in the top 15. Many people view Holland as the top GM in the league, sure he's had a couple unlucky FA signings of late but overall the dude knows how to run a team with homegrown talent.
- ezekial

You underestimate Scotty's value. He was an intricate part of the Wings organization. Wings know hockey no doubt but Scotty I believe is one of those individuals who can see it, and when I mean see it, he can see what it takes to be the best or to beat the best

It may be many things, but it isn't "naivety", the Hawks were trusting an ADULT to act the part he agreed to. They were wrong, that's all. Again, Kane's talent and propensity in the clutch make him "believable"...and also remember, the Hawks were not unanimous on giving Kane his extension. What would you have done? I know I would likely have signed him with specific language in his contract...and that's exactly what the Hawks did.
- MexicoHawk

I would have done my due diligence, to call Kane an adult that's a reach, and if these incidents occurred 2012 that was only two years from when he signed his mega deal, so you are saying Kane signed a contract with an out clause? I know that's what I would of done without a doubt. So that's great the Hawks will be able to just walk away from the contract. Problem solved we won't even have to trade Bickell, Shaw or Versteeg be able to sign Kruger fantastic

Let me make a few remarks about all of the speculation and comments being made. First, a great thanks to JJ for being so talented and credible in the first place to HAVE SOURCES, these are people who wouldn't divulge private information to just anyone on the net...they do so to JJ because they know he is a very good ambassador for not only the Blackhawks, but for Hockey in general!

Now, as to JJ's rumours, I will say this once again, based on the amount of scenarios bantered about inside the offices of NHL GMs you could throw DARTS at the board and hit a discussed scenario! NHL GMs HAVE TO go over scenario after scenario to stay ahead of all that CAN happen at random when you are dealing with a team of 21+ human beings...sh$t happens.

The Canes are looking to move Jeff Skinner's contract, the Hawks are looking to move Bryan Bickell's contract...have they talked? MOST LIKELY YES, and indeed I can confirm that they have. Is a deal imminent between them? NO, there is simply too much up in the air for the Hawks right now. They need to either make a decision about Patrick Kane, or have a decision made for them before they do anything. But with LESS THAN A MONTH to the start of training camp, things are URGENT for the Hawks and they have feelers out EVERYWHERE in the hopes that they can get something done soon. Watch for it, as soon as something concrete is announced in the Kane matter the Hawks will make a move soon after. Right now, besides WPG and CAR, which JJ reported, the Hawks are STILL in contact with PHO, NJ and FLA about Bickell...those discussions a month earlier haven't just "gone away", anything is possible when it comes to Bryan Bickell and every line of conversation is being kept open!

I know for certain that WPG is prepared to deal with the Hawks on TWO different scenarios, one of which would include Bryan Bickell, and they don't really want him, so do the math on what would have to be included. As for the 2nd scenario, it involves Patrick Kane. WPG is one of those destinations that would accept Patrick Kane under the RIGHT circumstances, and they understand that a deal for Kane would likely mean he would miss part of the season! Someone asked yesterday "why would WPG be interested in CC when they have a good NHL prospect in waiting?" Really? You need to even ask this question? Why would Kevin Cheveldayoff still be interested in acquiring more Blackhawk players (like Andrew Ladd and Big Buff)? Gee, I don't know, maybe its because THEY KNOW HOW TO WIN AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL, and have been taught by the best coach in hockey? Have Ladd and Buff worked out well in WPG? What would acquiring Corey Crawford (and at the same time moving Pavelec) say to WPG fans? Maybe that we believe we can WIN NOW and Crawford knows a thing or two about winning Stanley Cups? No! The Jets have a 22 year old prospect who is the 2nd coming of Glen Hall...no issues there!

Even Bryan Bickell brings size, physicality, solid 2 way play, and toughness that any team can benefit from...add to the fact that Bickell has been on the roster for THREE Stanley Cups, and was a Conn Smythe finalist for one of them, and he's an ATTRACTIVE player! Certainly he has physical issues and his salary is high, but money can be taken back and there's only 2 years left on his deal, not like FOUR years on Skinner's massive deal!

JJ and I have had some discussions about this, and we both understand that the Hawks are in a tough spot right now, and as the defending Cup champions (and 3 in 6 years) they aren't going to receive any favours from anyone. Patrick Kane's actions (on the verge of his new massive deal set to kick in) were EXACTLY WHAT THE HAWKS DIDN'T NEED! And that statement goes far beyond just the speculation of whether he will be allowed to play or not! Right now, Bowman is going through scenarios where Kane will still be a Hawk but will have to miss part or all of the season, and whether his Cap hit can be removed or not. He is also going through a scenario where he will be ordered to TRADE Kane...and he is going through a scenario where Kane's contract is simply voided and he's released outright, because he can't play in the NHL (at least for a while). Do any of you actually think that Stan Bowman doesn't already have enough on his plate???

What some of you are incredibly still in denial over is the FACT that Kane could be not only suspended by the team or league, but could end up in JAIL! But it goes far, far beyond this discussion alone. Kane is now DAMAGED goods, regardless of how this all plays out. Before this mess, Kane was a young, talented player that showed up during crunch time...one of the most valuable commodities in the league and a player so good, that a few indiscretions could be overlooked. But now, he's a loose cannon and dangerous goods, because he is proving that he's not only dangerous to himself, but to others as well and NO TEAM will accept that without a STRICT and PUBLIC transformation! Kane is going to have to come public with his issues, go through some kind of "accepted" help program and be committed publicly to changing his life around! And believe me, this scenario is necessary in Chicago as well, if the Hawks decide to keep him!

Right now I am certain the Hawks are OPEN to both keeping and trading Kane away. Whether he stays or not will depend upon how the situation with the Police/Law turns out and how Kane decides to handle this. Because regardless of the perceived motives of the young woman involved, this is ALL on Patrick Kane. There have been TWO other incidents with Kane since 2012 that have not made the light of day, but that the Hawks are well aware of. How do you think Rocky and John feel about Kane in this precise moment with their GM already in dire straits with trying to fit a competitive team under the salary cap and two of their best players and perhaps best prospect already traded away??? Thrilled? Happy? Forgiving? Or perhaps angry and frustrated?

Understand the following, this is the "best scenario" for the Hawks with Kane. If Kane manages to avoid any legal charges against him and the Hawks decide to keep him after he agrees to come public with his problem(s) and pledges to change his lifestyle around, the Hawks are ONE more incident with Kane away from NOT BEING ABLE TO TRADE HIM FOR ANY VALUE, ever again! By keeping Kane they would be backing themselves into a corner that doesn't feature a way out...and this is the best scenario to boot. Is that the smart move?

Finally, if the Hawks do move Kane will they get equal value back for him? Of course not, there isn't another Patrick Kane out there! However, at this point, if Kane avoids criminal charges he STILL possesses significant value to a market that needs to win now...and those teams and owners EXIST! And as such, they have to give up value to get value. So to those who think that by trading Kane that the "Cup Days are over" in Chicago, think again. The heart and soul of this team has always been Jonathan Toews and the coaching of Joel Quenneville. As long as the Hawks add contributing pieces in any deal for Kane, they can still compete at the highest level. If the Hawks could trade Kane, for example, for Dustin Byfuglien and a TOP Jets prospect, how badly off would they be? A D core of Keith, Seabrook, Hammer, Buff, Daley and ANYBODY ELSE would be DOMINATING! And because Bowman has done so well in acquiring and developing the likes of Teravainen, Dano and Panarin, how badly off would our offence be when Q's system of offence is based upon forechecking, turnovers, and quick DZone breakouts? So if you choose to spout only "doom and gloom" over a possible Kane trade its only because you choose to...the Hawks can still win without Patrick Kane, but ONLY if there's value for trading him...and potentially there soon could be! And by keeping Kane, the Hawks risk NEVER again being able to trade him for any value...so again, which is the smart move?
- MexicoHawk

I think it's very clear that the bigger risk would be trading him and hoping to be just as good/dynasty worthy. Not keeping him because he might potentially have another off ice issue. Tough call, but given the Hawks unique spot as a dynasty with Kane being the co-face of their resurgence, I think it's clear what the right choice is assuming he isnt charged, publicly apologizes and admits to his mistakes. The brand will sustain as long as Kane does what he does and the Hawks keep winning. It's time to be in the business of winning more Cups, the window is only open for so long (Keith, Hossa..).

Chevy didn't bring in Ladd and Buff, they were already here, he did acquire Frolic but has since let him walk. Crawford is a good not great goalie who has been fortunate playing on a great team. When you have two top rated prospects in Hellybuck and Comrie you don't want to bring in a Chris Osgood type stanley cup winner who is signed for a ton of money long term and in the process give up Ehlers ( who people on here are guessing ) Of course Hawks fans would love this, Jets would not!!!
- Ross77

We went 5-0 against you, we are heading in the right direction without Crawford

Winnipeg went what against who??

Last time I checked, Winnipeg won the first three games against the Hawks last year, and the Hawks won the last two.

And by last count, the Hawks won 16 playoff games and how many did Winnipeg win?? Oh yeah, that's right - 0!!!!!

You make me laugh!!!!!!

I'm sure any settlement agreement would stipulate that she won't testify and would have a non disclosure agreement. I don't see the DA moving forward without her testimony. Just a guess but that's the way I see this ending. Unless she's insistant that it goes to trial. Which she may well be, that wouldn't prevent her from pursuing a civil case as well.
- walleyeb1

I can tell you unequivocally that she DOES NOT want this to go to trial.

If you ever sat in on one of these cases, or worked for an attorney finding information and witnesses against an accuser, you would know what I am talking about.

Women who choose to go to trial in rape cases are shocked at the witnesses that come forward from her past. It leaves them crying and ashamed in front of their families and friends. A defense attorney with the successful background like Kane's would tear this woman apart - and I am sure the attorney her family retained is telling her the exact same thing.