the worst part is that you've got me somewhat "defending" benning's moves.

for that you will pay. maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow.... but you'll pay for that.
- RealityChecker

In the end, I'm confident that I will look less foolish then those who are defending every one of his moves or keep saying "it's not that bad"(you definitely don't fall into that category).

in my opinion, it comes down to role. bonino is a decent centre man but is taking time away from horvat.

horvat needs 2nd line minutes and bonino is not well suited for the third line.

the best part of this trade is the fact that willie will have no option but to give horvat more of an offensive role. (he said hopefully)
- RealityChecker

I don't understand the picks involved in this trade.

I'd just as soon keep Bonino with his cap hit, playing on what some would call a 3rd line and what others would just call one of our 3rd lines.

But the puck hasn't dropped yet, haven't seen the results of this trade.

As long as Sutter doesn't get a ntc and the extension is for 2 or 3 years, I will try to be optimistic regarding the possibilities.

My biggest issue is that we downgraded a draft pick and gave up Clendening(not that I'm high on him). And that Sutter will get a nice fat contract from JimBo that will pay him like a 2nd liner.

I'd rather just go up with WD and tell him to give Horvat more minutes and PP time and keep Bonino. Or trade Bonino for a pick or prospect at the TDL.
- Nucker101

i agree with that, except for the part about complaining about a contract that is yet to occur.

i just wanted a tank. i'm not going to complain that it's one year too late and it's not being done the way i would have done it. i've already b!tched about that and now it's time to move on.

it reminds me of the old joke:
a man offers a woman $1m to sleep with him. the woman agrees. the man then proceeds to pull out a $10 bill. he hands it to the woman. incredulously she screams, "ten dollars!?!?!? what type of woman do you take me for?"

the man replies, "we've already established what type of woman you are... now we're just negotiating price."

the team is tanking. we're just arguing about how long it will take.

I don't understand the picks involved in this trade.

I'd just as soon keep Bonino with his cap hit, playing on what some would call a 3rd line and what others would just call one of our 3rd lines.

But the puck hasn't dropped yet, haven't seen the results of this trade.

As long as Sutter doesn't get a ntc and the extension is for 2 or 3 years, I will try to be optimistic regarding the possibilities.



- hillbillydeluxe

Read a Pittsburgh article that compares the advanced stats. Bonino's invididual ES production is 1st line despite 3rd line minutes. While Sutter had 4th line production despite 2nd line minutes.

Sutter had more ice time than Bonino last year as well.

Read a Pittsburgh article that compares the advanced stats. Bonino's invididual ES production is 1st line despite 3rd line minutes. While Sutter had 4th line production despite 2nd line minutes.
- EastVan

Nerd! Watch the games!!!!

i agree with that, except for the part about complaining about a contract that is yet to occur.

i just wanted a tank. i'm not going to complain that it's one year too late and it's not being done the way i would have done it. i've already b!tched about that and now it's time to move on.

it reminds me of the old joke:
a man offers a woman $1m to sleep with him. the woman agrees. the man then proceeds to pull out a $10 bill. he hands it to the woman. incredulously she screams, "ten dollars!?!?!? what type of woman do you take me for?"

the man replies, "we've already established what type of woman you are... now we're just negotiating price."

the team is tanking. we're just arguing about how long it will take.
- RealityChecker

Exactly! That's the only legitimate discussion here. The rest is just pissing matches.

My biggest issue is that we downgraded a draft pick and gave up Clendening(not that I'm high on him). And that Sutter will get a nice fat contract from JimBo that will pay him like a 2nd liner.

I'd rather just go up with WD and tell him to give Horvat more minutes and PP time and keep Bonino. Or trade Bonino for a pick or prospect at the TDL.
- Nucker101

I dont hate the trade, but this is my issue as well. I know the difference in draft position isnt drastic but just seems unnessesary. I also dont understand the urgency of extending Sutter. I mean we all assumed Bonino was going to be around for a while, can you imagine if we extended him last summer after the trade? Let it play out for a while Jim...

Exactly! That's the only legitimate discussion here. The rest is just pissing matches.
- bloatedmosquito

The other argument is that if the tank will be worse or better with a GM who struggles with asset management. The Oilers have had plenty of top picks but struggled to make smart trades/signings and that's why they haven't improved.

Read a Pittsburgh article that compares the advanced stats. Bonino's invididual ES production is 1st line despite 3rd line minutes. While Sutter had 4th line production despite 2nd line minutes.
- EastVan

pretty sure Sutter was put out against the top lines of other teams. The fact that he's a plus player in that role tells me he's not bad at the role.

Sutter had more ice time than Bonino last year as well.
- Nucker101

Bonino was ordinary, Sutter was ordinary. Sutter is close to triple the cost and will likely be getting paid close to 4x the cost by next summer. That's not even mentioning throwing in Clandening, who as a 22 yr old D I believe still had room to grow.

Really don't see the angle here.

Nerd! Watch the games!!!!
- Nucker101

I did watch most of the games. Bonino started off well and ended well. But he had that cold streak as well as being totally ineffective on the second unit powerplay.

Pittsburgh considers Sutter a a 10-15 goal player and makes other his teammate possession numbers worse (cough cough Malkin). The 21 goals he scored was an outlier season.

At least we have a legitimate reason to make Horvat the second line center.

The other argument is that if the tank will be worse or better with a GM who struggles with asset management. The Oilers have had plenty of top picks but struggled to make smart trades/signings and that's why they haven't improved.
- Nucker101

i think this is the opposite of benning. seems like he's got a handle on the complementary pieces (sbisa is not included in this discussion) but will need the high end picks that come with a true tank.

the oilers had top end but no struggled to insulate/build around them.

in any event, this is a 5 year process (give or take a couple of years).

i've said it before and it's no real revelation but the rebuild depends on the draft. from an early view point, i like benning's drafting (but who knows thus far).

all the other stuff, will be forgotten. those ancillary issues will only be a factor if he doesn't hit on enough picks.

Carol Schram: Vancouver Canucks Trade Bonino, Clendening to Pittsburgh for Brandon Sutter
Jim Benning shocked us out of our summer slumber on Tuesday when he traded Nick Bonino and Adam Clendening to the Pittsburgh Penguins for Brandon Sutter and an exchange of draft picks.
- Carol Schram

Decent trade for both teams. Bonino is a streaky forward who is at times a defensive liability from what I've seen. Also dreadful at face offs. Sutter is an above average 3rd line centre. If you are expecting Sutter to be more than a very good 3rd line centre you will be let down, but he's a good guy and great in that role. Bonino is versatile but not as many tools in the tool box as Sutter. Good move for both teams though it hurts Van to give up more picks.

pretty sure Sutter was put out against the top lines of other teams. The fact that he's a plus player in that role tells me he's not bad at the role.
- Mungo

Sutter was given a lot of defensive zone starts, but Crosby/Malkin/Kunitz/Hornqvist/Perron/Comeau all played against better competition.

Bonino was ordinary, Sutter was ordinary. Sutter is close to triple the cost and will likely be getting paid close to 4x the cost by next summer. That's not even mentioning throwing in Clandening, who as a 22 yr old D I believe still had room to grow.

Really don't see the angle here.
- AlexF

And moving down 10 spots in the draft.

I think the Pens did well in this trade because they were against the cap and turned 1 player into 3 around the same price. However Sutter was the guy that really stepped his game up a level in the playoffs. He just not a very physical player and I think that why he wasn't as liked in PGH. Very solid player and person.

I did watch most of the games. Bonino started off well and ended well. But he had that cold streak as well as being totally ineffective on the second unit powerplay.

Pittsburgh considers Sutter a a 10-15 goal player and makes other his teammate possession numbers worse (cough cough Malkin). The 21 goals he scored was an outlier season.

At least we have a legitimate reason to make Horvat the second line center.
- EastVan

I was being sarcastic, I totally agree. We bought high on Sutter just like with Bonino.

Ahhh yes nothing more inspirational than a guy who got shot in the face multiple times, telling you that things will get better.

Ripieces 2Pac
- I-own_da-Northwest

fixed!

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040-i-1410

Benning and Sutter sound bites on this page...

i think this is the opposite of benning. seems like he's got a handle on the complementary pieces (sbisa is not included in this discussion) but will need the high end picks that come with a true tank.

the oilers had top end but no struggled to insulate/build around them.

in any event, this is a 5 year process (give or take a couple of years).

i've said it before and it's no real revelation but the rebuild depends on the draft. from an early view point, i like benning's drafting (but who knows thus far).

all the other stuff, will be forgotten. those ancillary issues will only be a factor if he doesn't hit on enough picks.
- RealityChecker

He does seem to really value role player,s but the problem is that he pays a premium both asset/cap wise to acquire them.

I was being sarcastic, I totally agree. We bought high on Sutter just like with Bonino.
- Nucker101

the biggest asset that was wasted (for lack of a better term) was bonino's salary.

i don't care about his playing ability b/c i think it can be easily replaced. what couldn't be replaced was his awesome cap hit for 2 seasons.

i think that contract had more value than what was received especially in a tight cap world.

you say it like you were the first or only one. the rumours for sutter have been around for years.

also, people have been crying/wishing for lucic since his rookie year.

having said that, sutter is nothing special and lucic is going to be a colossal blunder if it ever comes to fruition.

but other than that, you're on to something.
- RealityChecker

I was the first one . deal with it


So before you would laugh at me for my wild trade propsals and now you are saying they are not my proposals

Sounds to me like you just like whinning

He does seem to really value role player,s but the problem is that he pays a premium both asset/cap wise to acquire them.
- Nucker101

Looks to me like Van is trying to build a young core. Bonino was caught in no mans land. Not the kind of guy you can build a second or third line around, but has some skill. Sutter can be a very effective third line centre. Not sure why you guys are all so upset. I think it's a good move for both teams.

the biggest asset that was wasted (for lack of a better term) was bonino's salary.

i don't care about his playing ability b/c i think it can be easily replaced. what couldn't be replaced was his awesome cap hit for 2 seasons.

i think that contract had more value than what was received especially in a tight cap world.
- RealityChecker

I think Bonino's contract is overrated, he's going to be wanting a HUGE bump in salary, whereas Sutter is only going to get a slight bump (ok, now I'm reaching, work with me here) and supposedly can do more than Bonino can.

Yeah, ok, I can't even try and defend this one...