Everyone lamenting the loss of Saad need to do one thing: Re-run the cap numbers with his AAV in the mix. Then come back and tell everyone how they'll ice a team in Oct truly primed to repeat. Saad wanted to get paid. Good for him. He priced himself off this team at this time. Enjoy Columbus.

You're assuming the offer sheet was going to be similar to the contract he signed with CBJ. I don't think that's the case, that's why CBJ came out and said right away we'll match any offer sheets. We didn't have the same cap space luxury.
- walleyeb1

One thing on a potential OS vs the actual Saad deal:

In order for the OS AAV to be the same $6M, the term would have been only 5 years. Using A $36M total contract value would have forced AAV to be $7.2M (36/5) and compensation (if not matched) would be reflected on the $7.2M figure.

There's a good explanation here:

http://www.silversevensen...eet-explained-rules-guide

Bottom line is $6M AAV for Saad at this time would have been prohibitive; making SB's task all the more difficult. SB did well to get the return he received.

>>The one thing the team will do in all of those scenarios is re-sign Marcus Kruger, who Quenneville believes is essential to any realistic shot at a Cup this year.<<<

Let that sink in...a "4th line/PK guy" @ about 2.5 mil per is deemed essential for another cup run.
- bogiedoc

You guys keep saying this but it doesn't make it any more true.

The truth is, he's a third line center. The Hawks don't really have a fourth line.

Or if you simply insist they're a fourth line, show me another "fourth line" that is routinely sent out against the best players in the league (when most fourth lines in the league have to be sheltered), and maintains offensive zone time like that line does.

Killing penalties matters. Every bit as much as the power play does.

Another thing you need to understand is that because of the above, Quenneville flat LOVES the guy, as does Scotty Bowman (at the very least).

The other thing that needs to sink in is this . . . he's only what, 25? He's done the job asked of him amazingly well, has improved year after year, but he can and probably will get better. He has some hands and playmaking ability and he is only just now really maturing physically.

So that's another way of looking at it that might prove helpful. You can scoff all you want, but this guy is: a) highly valuable to the Hawks and b) there are quite valid reasons for it.

>>The one thing the team will do in all of those scenarios is re-sign Marcus Kruger, who Quenneville believes is essential to any realistic shot at a Cup this year.<<<

Let that sink in...a "4th line/PK guy" @ about 2.5 mil per is deemed essential for another cup run.
- bogiedoc

Take a look at the centre position and you'll understand a bit more. Meaning the 'Hawks are quite thin there now. #16 can be 3C or 4C.

Then take a look at how his presence takes pressure off the big guys (19 & 81) on the PK and you'll like it more.

Then simply add his presence to the PK in general - beyond his helping the big guys - where he can anchor the forwards out there.

Then lastly, don't forget about his performance on the dot. 53.3% for the RS, over 55% in the SCF when it mattered most.

"A" 4th line/pk guy. Just any old run of the mill 4th line guy that will play some PK. I believe that's the point you're stressing here, isn't it? Technically, you're right - he does play on the "4th line" and he does play on the PK. But that's where you stop with your description of Kruger. And from that perspective, you're justified in your incredulity of the idea that Q deems him "essential to any realistic shot at a Cup this year".

But that is where your perspective is different than many of your fellow Hawks fans and supposedly the opinion of Q as well. While you're technically correct with your description of Kruger, it doesn't convey the reality of the role Kruger plays for the Hawks. His 4th line is used as a shutdown line and is so effective the Q plays the "4th line" against the opponents top line. The 4th line starts the majority of their shifts in the d-zone, often times against the opponent's top line - not typical for a typical 4th line, which is the point. Q uses Kruger's line differently that any old run of the mill 4th line that most other teams have.

Then there is Kruger's role on the PK. He wins draws, sells out to make plays, and has the quickness and anticipation to make him a great PKer. Not easily replaced and not something to be taken for granted.

So on the face of it, stating a 4th liner is essential for a Cup run sounds kind of ridiculous. But Kruger is a 4th liner in name only. In reality he plays a bigger role than generally ascribed to "a 4th line guy".
- EbonyRaptor

Ebony, I think Bogie missed all of JJ's comments/blogs with Kruger's HERO stats.

Kruger is really a 3C on any other team -- so $2.5M a year is about right for salary. Because, when looking at TOI, most teams have two scoring lines, a third line that acts as a checking line, and a fourth line that gets limited minutes to give the other guys a break.

The reason the Hawks have had 3 Cups in 6 years is because they have three genuine scoring lines. Then the Hawks' checking line, by numerical default, is their 4th line.

A lot of us agree that it's really that simple to understand...

You guys keep saying this but it doesn't make it any more true.

The truth is, he's a third line center. The Hawks don't really have a fourth line.

Or if you simply insist they're a fourth line, show me another "fourth line" that is routinely sent out against the best players in the league (when most fourth lines in the league have to be sheltered), and maintains offensive zone time like that line does.

Killing penalties matters. Every bit as much as the power play does.

Another thing you need to understand is that because of the above, Quenneville flat LOVES the guy, as does Scotty Bowman (at the very least).

The other thing that needs to sink in is this . . . he's only what, 25? He's done the job asked of him amazingly well, has improved year after year, but he can and probably will get better. He has some hands and playmaking ability and he is only just now really maturing physically.

So that's another way of looking at it that might prove helpful. You can scoff all you want, but this guy is: a) highly valuable to the Hawks and b) there are quite valid reasons for it.
- John Jaeckel

He's meh. Just kidding, love Kooga!

I'm not sure how much better he gets offensively. On occasion he'll flash some high end skill that dazzles but it's a bit few and far between. If he did more often the Hawks definitely couldn't afford him.

I'm ok with what he is and think he'll be back for some of the reasons you've mentioned mostly because 16, 19, AA and 86??? make the Hawks pretty formidable down the middle.

Also, why'd you go with the pic of Drew Carey for your avi?

And another Hawk fan who forgets that they had sucked for decades until 7 years ago.
- djamon

Pretty sure he didn't forget. Pretty sure none of us forgot. Also damned sure there are many guys here who personally witnessed decades of mediocrity and years of flat out suck. So if you would please, forgive us for basking in the glory of THREE cups in SIX seasons in the hard salary cap era. Thanks. PS: The 'Hawks are going to be damned good for several seasons to come as well.

Rebuilds, if done properly, don't take from 4-7 years to contend. So it'll either be a lot quicker than that, or we'll still be spinning our wheels in 5 years.
- djamon

But the ones that take shorter, usually involve getting top picks.

My opinion, the leafs problem rebuilding is they never get that #1 or #2 pick. They are bad, just not bad enough.

Do you think they have game changers coming up? I don't know.

Edit: Never mind, see its been responded to. Day late and a dollar short again.

Trading Sharp earlier may have meant Oduya was still here but most likely didn't matter at all with Saad. Saad's agent had $6 mill in his pocket and no bridge deal allowed once that became reality. I agree Bowman did well to get what he did.

In my world Sharp should have moved earlier but he was a load to move as Johns needed to be included.
- Al

Agree with this. I don't care if Sharp was traded earlier, Sadd at 5 mil (reported what Hawks would have went to) is still too much.

I don't think 10 years from now, they'll still be debating who got the better of this trade............it'll be the Hawks.

He's meh. Just kidding, love Kooga!

I'm not sure how much better he gets offensively. On occasion he'll flash some high end skill that dazzles but it's a bit few and far between. If he did more often the Hawks definitely couldn't afford him.

I'm ok with what he is and think he'll be back for some of the reasons you've mentioned mostly because 16, 19, AA and 86??? make the Hawks pretty formidable down the middle.

Also, why'd you go with the pic of Drew Carey for your avi?
- HawkintheD

And without Kruger in that center mix there would be IMMENSE pressure on Toews to take draws in too many situations and kill penalties. Because you no longer have Vermette or Handzus around.

And without Kruger in that center mix there would be IMMENSE pressure on Toews to take draws in too many situations and kill penalties. Because you no longer have Vermette or Handzus around.
- John Jaeckel

I want Kruger back as much as anyone, but if Stan can't unload Bickell, maybe we see Danault in that role? There's obviously be some growing pains, but a guy's gotta start somewhere.

And if you don't think losing sucks, I don't remember which game it was against the Wild but I think the Hawks won an overtime game and the last person off the ice was Suter and as he was about to get off the ice he was watching the Hawks celebrate and I was wondering if he was looking at them and thinking maybe I should of signed with Chicago or what do we have to do to beat this team
- BetweenTheDots

I remember seeing that as well.

My thought was similar but was more of a "hey dumba$$, that could have been you!"

You guys keep saying this but it doesn't make it any more true.

The truth is, he's a third line center. The Hawks don't really have a fourth line.

Or if you simply insist they're a fourth line, show me another "fourth line" that is routinely sent out against the best players in the league (when most fourth lines in the league have to be sheltered), and maintains offensive zone time like that line does.

Killing penalties matters. Every bit as much as the power play does.

Another thing you need to understand is that because of the above, Quenneville flat LOVES the guy, as does Scotty Bowman (at the very least).

The other thing that needs to sink in is this . . . he's only what, 25? He's done the job asked of him amazingly well, has improved year after year, but he can and probably will get better. He has some hands and playmaking ability and he is only just now really maturing physically.

So that's another way of looking at it that might prove helpful. You can scoff all you want, but this guy is: a) highly valuable to the Hawks and b) there are quite valid reasons for it.
- John Jaeckel

I agree with you Kruger is a 3rd line center, I'd take him over Vermette and Richards in a heartbeat and the kids getting better at the dot and doesn't take stupid penalties like Bolland and others have. Role player who plays it very very well

I love the part that came back that is Dano. Anisimov on the other hand is going to have to earn my acceptance.
- Katana777

Would you have been upset if it was just Sadd for Dano? I wouldn't have been.

Just look at AA as a throw in like Morin and Tropp

Same Leaf fan wherever you go. Even after half a century of disappointment they somehow remain delusionally optimistic.
- paulr

A lot different than Hawks fans when they were terrible... non-existent.

And if you don't think losing sucks, I don't remember which game it was against the Wild but I think the Hawks won an overtime game and the last person off the ice was Suter and as he was about to get off the ice he was watching the Hawks celebrate and I was wondering if he was looking at them and thinking maybe I should of signed with Chicago or what do we have to do to beat this team
- BetweenTheDots

THIS. As a leader of his team, that's what he was likely contemplating. He and his agent knew at the time of his UFA signing 7/4/12 there was no way he was going to get $7.5M AAV from the 'Hawks over that term, even under the old CBA. No way in hell.

Suter and Parise appeared to be hell-bent signing together and with the Wild. Even if that were not the case, while his presence on the 'Hawks would have been very beneficial, I don't think the 'Hawks would have been able to afford the depth they actually enjoyed en route to the '13 cup. In fact, one of the reasons they got off to that hot start was the team was in-tact from '12.

A lot different than Hawks fans when they were terrible... non-existent.
- SolidGoldBricks

We were here. Just not at the games.

The Leafs bad situation now mimics the pre-2009 'Hawks in only one way: No Cups.

Prior to 9/26/07, there were over three decades of 'Hawks ownership doing everything they could to (frank) over the fan-base. Not too sure if that's been the way up there in TOR recently.

Agree with this. I don't care if Sharp was traded earlier, Sadd at 5 mil (reported what Hawks would have went to) is still too much.

I don't think 10 years from now, they'll still be debating who got the better of this trade............it'll be the Hawks.
- vabeachbear

To add: In the context each team had to operate within the confines of the salary cap at that time.

CLB giving Saad SIX million AAV July 2015 with their cap situation =/= CHI giving Saad SIX million AAV July 2015 with their cap situation.

But the ones that take shorter, usually involve getting top picks.

My opinion, the leafs problem rebuilding is they never get that #1 or #2 pick. They are bad, just not bad enough.

Do you think they have game changers coming up? I don't know.

Edit: Never mind, see its been responded to. Day late and a dollar short again.
- vabeachbear

Completely agree with this. I think Marner could be a game changer, but he's more likely to be a guy you'd like to have be your 2nd or 3rd best guy. I really think the Leafs need that first overall pick (or maybe 2nd) to get this rebuild moving any faster than 5ish years. I feel the same about Rielly. I think he's great, but you'd really like for him to be your #2 d-man of the future. Then you're looking at some elite level talent.

I expect either the Leafs will get that 1st or 2nd overall pick this year, or we're looking at a pretty long rebuild. You guys saw it with the Hawks... getting Kane and Toews really sped things along to becoming a contender. I don't think the Leafs are going to get those kind of guys, so it's going to take a while.

A lot different than Hawks fans when they were terrible... non-existent.
- SolidGoldBricks

True to a certain point, but most here do remember those years before the last 7.

What's really interesting about that memory is that's why some posters here are more skeptical than others, its also why some are more positive and trusting than others.

Completely agree with this. I think Marner could be a game changer, but he's more likely to be a guy you'd like to have be your 2nd or 3rd best guy. I really think the Leafs need that first overall pick (or maybe 2nd) to get this rebuild moving any faster than 5ish years. I feel the same about Rielly. I think he's great, but you'd really like for him to be your #2 d-man of the future. Then you're looking at some elite level talent.

I expect either the Leafs will get that 1st or 2nd overall pick this year, or we're looking at a pretty long rebuild. You guys saw it with the Hawks... getting Kane and Toews really sped things along to becoming a contender. I don't think the Leafs are going to get those kind of guys, so it's going to take a while.
- SolidGoldBricks

I'll add, you have to be a little lucky and make sure you get that top pick in a good year.

Not everyone has the deal the with Bettman like the Oilers got where you keep getting that pick over and over again til you get it right.

We were here. Just not at the games.

The Leafs bad situation now mimics the pre-2009 'Hawks in only one way: No Cups.

Prior to 9/26/07, there were over three decades of 'Hawks ownership doing everything they could to (frank) over the fan-base. Not too sure if that's been the way up there in TOR recently.
- blackhawk24

I know, I was just clowning.

The Leafs ownership is definitely not treating the fans as poorly as Hawks' ownership did prior to this stretch. I don't know that any fan base has been (franked) with that bad. I do think that the Leafs' execs, for a long time, haven't cared enough that they put a good team on the ice. They still make a ton of money, regardless. From a business standpoint, why try to fix the product if people keep buying it?

I think in that way, this time in Toronto mimics the end of the last decade in Chicago: ownership, management, the folks in the high rises, are finally realizing it's time to try to put their best foot forward from a hockey perspective.

I don't know if this rebuild is going to work, but the reason Leafs' fans are so optimistic right now is because for the first time, it seems like drastic changes are being made and there is actually a plan going forward. We feel like we can trust the group making the decisions (which may be a mistake, but it's nice to feel that way for once).

I am sure this is similar to how it all felt when Bowman started making the Hawks into the best team of the decade.

Not to sway things from Hawks-talk too much, the JVR rumor doesn't make sense to me, unless the Hawks were willing to give up some top-level prospects. I know the Hawks have some great prospects, but do they really have ENOUGH of them to be giving some up for a guy like JVR? He's one of my favorite players, and I actually think he'd be great in Chicago, but I don't know that there's a trade that makes sense here.

THIS. As a leader of his team, that's what he was likely contemplating. He and his agent knew at the time of his UFA signing 7/4/12 there was no way he was going to get $7.5M AAV from the 'Hawks over that term, even under the old CBA. No way in hell.

Suter and Parise appeared to be hell-bent signing together and with the Wild. Even if that were not the case, while his presence on the 'Hawks would have been very beneficial, I don't think the 'Hawks would have been able to afford the depth they actually enjoyed en route to the '13 cup. In fact, one of the reasons they got off to that hot start was the team was in-tact from '12.
- blackhawk24

Oh for sure we would of been in salary cap hell but I do wonder what he was thinking about watching them celebrate, it's got to be frustrating but hey he got what he wanted.

I'll add, you have to be a little lucky and make sure you get that top pick in a good year.

Not everyone has the deal the with Bettman like the Oilers got where you keep getting that pick over and over again til you get it right.
- vabeachbear

truth about the Oilers, and completely agree about luck. It's not every draft you get a guy like Toews at 3rd (that draft was insane), and some years you can end up with Yakupov as the hands-down first. Not to say Yak is bad, just that he isn't a right-out-of-the-box franchise-changing player.

I don't think Calgary has really gotten a true, game-changing player, but they've gotten a lot of solid guys over several years, and are starting to come together as a good team with a lot of great pieces. I think that's the way rebuilds are going to have to happen more and more in this NHL. Taking a long time to collect a lot of pieces that are going to form into your squad. If you get lucky, a guy or two will speed up the process by being those elite level talents.

Ekblad, for instance, gave Florida a big step forward last season.

>>The one thing the team will do in all of those scenarios is re-sign Marcus Kruger, who Quenneville believes is essential to any realistic shot at a Cup this year.<<<

Let that sink in...a "4th line/PK guy" @ about 2.5 mil per is deemed essential for another cup run.
- bogiedoc

Not many teams have won the cup without him over the past few years.