Can't edit.. since HB is awesome and buggy as poop..

Hey... I think its asking way too much, but I HOPE he gets it. He had better than a decent season, he had a GOOD season last year, I'll admit it. Arguably a top 5 goalie last year on a God awful defensive team, could almost call it a great season. And of course, he had it on the most important year for a new deal, the final year of the contract.

I really don't consider it a jerk move, unless Washington offered him 4.5-5.5 mil and he said no. If they threw 3-4 mil at him, then hes in the right.

So, I read the 8 million request before the blog by the Washington writer here... So, my defending his request is now invalid. They offered 5.5 for 5 years, with likely bonuses... thats a more than fair deal. Greedy, bit of a douche now... and I LIKE it... (frank) their cap

"Simply put, Ray Shero is not nearly as good as Stan Bowman."

First, injuries are DRASTICALLY different between these two teams during this time period, especially for key players.

Second, Stan Bowman is benefiting from the players drafted / developed / traded for by former Blackhawks GM Dale Tallon.
- thevelvetfog1

Shut up, Shero was not even close to Bowman.

Speaking of Pierre, does anyone else wonder what the Pens roster would currently look like if Maguire took the GM job ?
- willi

The Shattuck-Saint Mary's Prep School All Stars

Shut up, Shero was not even close to Bowman.
- usethe1-2-2

Ok, whatever you say. Let's not look at any other information or variables when comparing these two GMs. While we're at it, let's analyze each forward's worth by their point totals alone and each defenseman's worth by their +/- alone. It's much easier to live in a 2 dimensional world. Less thinking.

Ok, whatever you say. Let's not look at any other information or variables when comparing these two GMs. While we're at it, let's analyze each forward's worth by their point totals alone and each defenseman's worth by their +/- alone. It's much easier to live in a 2 dimensional world. Less thinking.
- thevelvetfog1

Now there's some thinking I can get behind. Or is it non-thinking? Either way I like it!

not gonna argue about shero vs bowman... but compare the health of both teams over the years. that and yoews and kane are both just now hitting their respective mega deals. dont compare shero and bowman until that era starts.

neat data about college. but the data makes sense. both chl and college players... the stars will bust out young. mostly top picks I assume. this jives with the data about success percentage by round.

Shut up, Shero was not even close to Bowman.
- usethe1-2-2

bull.

Shut up, Shero was not even close to Bowman.
- usethe1-2-2

Here is the team Stan Bowman INHERITED upon being hired in 2009:

Jonathan Toews
Patrick Kane
Patrick Sharp
Duncan Keith
Dave Bolland
Dustin Byfuglien
Marian Hossa
Kris Versteeg
Brent Seabrook
Niklas Hjalmarsson
Troy Brouwer
Brent Sopel
Tomas Kopecky
Andrew Ladd
Brian Campbell
Ben Eager
John Madden
Bryan Bickell
Colin Fraser
Nick Boynton
Adam Burish
Jordan Hendry

Antti Niemi
Corey Crawford

That is a Stanley Cup worthy roster with MANY key players on cheap ELCs so it comes as no surprise that they won the Stanley Cup that year.

On the other hand, Ray Shero INHERITED one of, if the THE, worst team in the league in 2006 and a couple of short years later were playing in the Stanley Cup Finals and won it the following year. Since then they have had more points than any other team despite having more injuries than any other team. You give Shero a healthy Blackhawks roster (or even a healthy Pens roster) over those years and he is winning multiple Stanley Cups, too.

I'm so tired of the "Stan Bowman is God" trope when it was Dale Tallon who built that team and is 90% responsible for their current success.

Bowman has drafted Kruger and Shaw in the 5th round, Saad in the 2nd round, and Teravainen in the 1st round. Other than that, a bunch of busts. His overall trades are very average and include a bunch of stinkers. His overall track record is very average, just like most GMs, including Shero.

Here is the team Stan Bowman INHERITED upon being hired in 2009:

Jonathan Toews
Patrick Kane
Patrick Sharp
Duncan Keith
Dave Bolland
Dustin Byfuglien
Marian Hossa
Kris Versteeg
Brent Seabrook
Niklas Hjalmarsson
Troy Brouwer
Brent Sopel
Tomas Kopecky
Andrew Ladd
Brian Campbell
Ben Eager
John Madden
Bryan Bickell
Colin Fraser
Nick Boynton
Adam Burish
Jordan Hendry

Antti Niemi
Corey Crawford

That is a Stanley Cup worthy roster with MANY key players on cheap ELCs so it comes as no surprise that they won the Stanley Cup that year.

On the other hand, Ray Shero INHERITED one of, if the THE, worst team in the league in 2006 and a couple of short years later were playing in the Stanley Cup Finals and won it the following year. Since then they have had more points than any other team despite having more injuries than any other team. You give Shero a healthy Blackhawks roster (or even a healthy Pens roster) over those years and he is winning multiple Stanley Cups, too.

I'm so tired of the "Stan Bowman is God" trope when it was Dale Tallon who built that team and is 90% responsible for their current success.

Bowman has drafted Kruger and Shaw in the 5th round, Saad in the 2nd round, and Teravainen in the 1st round. Other than that, a bunch of busts. His overall trades are very average and include a bunch of stinkers. His overall track record is very average, just like most GMs, including Shero.
- thevelvetfog1

wait... shero got some stuff from patrick too....

I'm very proud of my Ziggy jersey!

even without the "inherited" argument its too tough to compare. injuries number one. many moves shero made were in response to injuries. contract status is another. I wont argue shero was better... or even as good as. I'd argue that comparing them is really impossible for now. lets ee how bowman handles the toews kane fll contract era

Shut up, Shero was not even close to Bowman.
- usethe1-2-2

A question for all.

Last season Kane went on LTIR at the end of season allowing them to sign Vermette with the cap space until playoffs started where there isn't a cap. Right of wrong (read that as legitimately injured - maybe NOT), would everyone be ok if our GM pulled a stunt like that?

A question for all.

Last season Kane went on LTIR at the end of season allowing them to sign Vermette with the cap space until playoffs started where there isn't a cap. Right of wrong (read that as legitimately injured - maybe NOT), would everyone be ok if our GM pulled a stunt like that?
- Aussiepenguin

I don't think they faked Kane's injury just to sign someone with the LTIR cap... now, are you saying would a GM try to extend the time on LTIR by a few days or a week to squeeze in an extra player? I damn sure hope they do.

I don't think they faked Kane's injury just to sign someone with the LTIR cap... now, are you saying would a GM try to extend the time on LTIR by a few days or a week to squeeze in an extra player? I damn sure hope they do.
- Guile

I have no doubt Kane was injured in 'some' way. I'm just saying that if they needed him before the playoffs started Vermette wouldn't have been signed. How much 'cheating' by a GM is acceptable? I truly believe Bowman knew this season there would be a huge decline & not be as competitive, so it was all in last season.

But in saying that it's the NHL so integrity isn't a word used often if at all especially by the powers that be (Bettman), so they probably liked the move & encourage that type of mentality!

I have no doubt Kane was injured in 'some' way. I'm just saying that if they needed him before the playoffs started Vermette wouldn't have been signed. How much 'cheating' by a GM is acceptable? I truly believe Bowman knew this season there would be a huge decline & not be as competitive, so it was all in last season.

But in saying that it's the NHL so integrity isn't a word used often if at all especially by the powers that be (Bettman), so they probably liked the move & encourage that type of mentality!
- Aussiepenguin

I don't know... his injury came out... it was what, a 6-8 week or so injury? That put it ended right at or a bit after the deadline... Luck of the draw in a bad circumstance... you'd think we'd have had that for us a bunch of times in the last few seasons too >_<

I have no doubt Kane was injured in 'some' way. I'm just saying that if they needed him before the playoffs started Vermette wouldn't have been signed. How much 'cheating' by a GM is acceptable? I truly believe Bowman knew this season there would be a huge decline & not be as competitive, so it was all in last season.

But in saying that it's the NHL so integrity isn't a word used often if at all especially by the powers that be (Bettman), so they probably liked the move & encourage that type of mentality!
- Aussiepenguin

I expect, not hope, but expect, our gm to do everything and anything to help the team within the rules... even bending them to the point right before they break

I don't know... his injury came out... it was what, a 6-8 week or so injury? That put it ended right at or a bit after the deadline... Luck of the draw in a bad circumstance... you'd think we'd have had that for us a bunch of times in the last few seasons too >_<
- Guile

dupers injury allowed us to spend a 1st on perron!

still not sure if it ends up worth it or not.

I don't know... his injury came out... it was what, a 6-8 week or so injury? That put it ended right at or a bit after the deadline... Luck of the draw in a bad circumstance... you'd think we'd have had that for us a bunch of times in the last few seasons too >_<
- Guile

He wasn't supposed to play until the 2nd round of the playoffs. They definitely milked the injury

I expect, not hope, but expect, our gm to do everything and anything to help the team within the rules... even bending them to the point right before they break
- ChrisMS

In that case would you keep Voynov on the books & play him if you could?

Interesting interview on TSN with Franson. He was more candid than a lot of players are when doing interviews. He gives a good perspective on how slow this UFA has been compared to others.

http://www.tsn.ca/franson...ely-destinations-1.334032

I don't know... his injury came out... it was what, a 6-8 week or so injury? That put it ended right at or a bit after the deadline... Luck of the draw in a bad circumstance... you'd think we'd have had that for us a bunch of times in the last few seasons too >_<
- Guile

No we do the opposite - get an injury keep him off LTIR & go with 5D!!

In that case would you keep Voynov on the books & play him if you could?
- Aussiepenguin

ooohhhh touche

I would take that on a case by case basis.... is voynov paying his dept to society? Is he in a program for offenders? anger management or substance abuse treatment if that was involved... usually is. and basically give him a no strikes your out warning. community service would have to be invloved...

I would if he followed those guidelines

I don't know... his injury came out... it was what, a 6-8 week or so injury? That put it ended right at or a bit after the deadline... Luck of the draw in a bad circumstance... you'd think we'd have had that for us a bunch of times in the last few seasons too >_<
- Guile

The only reason the Pens were able to load up on rentals in 2013 was because of the LTIR they accumulated throughout the season.

Here is the team Stan Bowman INHERITED upon being hired in 2009:

Jonathan Toews
Patrick Kane
Patrick Sharp
Duncan Keith
Dave Bolland
Dustin Byfuglien
Marian Hossa
Kris Versteeg
Brent Seabrook
Niklas Hjalmarsson
Troy Brouwer
Brent Sopel
Tomas Kopecky
Andrew Ladd
Brian Campbell
Ben Eager
John Madden
Bryan Bickell
Colin Fraser
Nick Boynton
Adam Burish
Jordan Hendry

Antti Niemi
Corey Crawford

That is a Stanley Cup worthy roster with MANY key players on cheap ELCs so it comes as no surprise that they won the Stanley Cup that year.

On the other hand, Ray Shero INHERITED one of, if the THE, worst team in the league in 2006 and a couple of short years later were playing in the Stanley Cup Finals and won it the following year. Since then they have had more points than any other team despite having more injuries than any other team. You give Shero a healthy Blackhawks roster (or even a healthy Pens roster) over those years and he is winning multiple Stanley Cups, too.

I'm so tired of the "Stan Bowman is God" trope when it was Dale Tallon who built that team and is 90% responsible for their current success.

Bowman has drafted Kruger and Shaw in the 5th round, Saad in the 2nd round, and Teravainen in the 1st round. Other than that, a bunch of busts. His overall trades are very average and include a bunch of stinkers. His overall track record is very average, just like most GMs, including Shero.
- thevelvetfog1

Wait, you mean the team that Bowman was assistant GM and Director of Hockey ops since 2001 he inherited...

Wait, you mean the team that Bowman was assistant GM and Director of Hockey ops since 2001 he inherited...

- usethe1-2-2

You can argue both Bowman and Shero inherited stacked teams, but Bowman showed an ability to reload the roster and Shero showed zero aptitude for roster construction that wasn't handed to him by his predecessor. I hope he runs NJD into the ground too.

You can argue both Bowman and Shero inherited stacked teams, but Bowman showed an ability to reload the roster and Shero showed zero aptitude for roster construction that wasn't handed to him by his predecessor. I hope he runs NJD into the ground too.
- jfkst1

shero did a wonderful job navigating injuries and was an above average to good gm. to suggest otherwise ignores so many facts its inane. keep on hatin!

and... um... shero inherited what? crosby... and? ryan malone? a rookie MAF? ziggy palfy? bowman inherited good luck and did well with it. shero inherited bad luck and did pretty damn good.

Wait, you mean the team that Bowman was assistant GM and Director of Hockey ops since 2001 he inherited...

- usethe1-2-2

you still havent justified the injury and contract situation to justify your statement...