Im pretty excited for next year. I really like the direction the team is going. We have a top notch coach and the team really looks poised to take advatage of his system.

Our defence though inexperienced are all puck movers (Scuds aside before every jumps down my throat). And the best part is we have what looks to be the best top nine we have had since maybe 93! The puck should be moved quicly and efficiently out of our zone before any team is able to establish their forecheck. Each line should have a scoring threat on it.

Kunitz Crosby Hornqvist <-- I dont think Kunitz has lost anything, I think he was injured/sick. And to those bringing up the pervious year, he was injured after slamming into the post right after the Olympics.

Plotnikov Malkin Kessel <-- Plotnikov doesnt need to do anything except go strong to the net on this line. Plot playing on the 2nd line strengthens our 3rd line.

Perron Sutter Dupuis <-- This looks good, lots of speed from Sutter and Duper and some pazzaz and finish from Perron.

Personally I hope we dont sign anymore players and fill the final spots on the 4th line with WBS guys and Bennett. I want to see a line of kids and just turn them loose, tell them to have fun.

Defense I'd like to see

Letang Maata <-- obviously
Pouliot Lovejoy <-- I think Pouliot should be paired with a veteran, he needs to be able to take chances to grow his game and Lovejoy is a smart dman, he will know where he needs to be to cover for Pouliot.
Cole Dumoulin <-- These are two big guys who can skate, Id like to see how they look together.


Barring injuries, I think we are back on top in the East.
- stackthepads

I'm completely with you except for the line "we have a top notch coach."

Johnston was guilty of the same things Bylsma was guilty of: favoring veterans, shuffling lines indiscriminately or not at all, not making adjustments, and using a system that got figured out.

I'm hoping to see more flexibility from him this year. I can chalk last year up to a new coach coaching a revolving door of players who were all in their first year in the system.

Meh. I think we are fine on the physicality side. We arent going to come anywhere close to being able to stand up to the physicality that CBJ or WSH is going to bring so I say why try. Just go the complete opposite direction, for every big body they have we have a fast skilled one.

Pouliot I think you are right, he needs alot of work on his defensive game, but that will come. This is why he needs to be paired with a verteran like Lovejoy.

I dont hate Sutter like you so Im fine with the third line, I dont think Fehr is an upgrade (no point in arguing this, you and I just dont agree)
Stempniak I like if he's on a similar contract to what he had last year. But Im okay going with a Rust, Sheary, Wilson, Sundqvist on the 4th, I think that youthful exuberance could go a long way in lightening up the room.
- stackthepads

Pouliot and Lovejoy has the potential to be a nightmare. Just sayin...

I'm fine with giving our young guys a shot on the 4th line, but I hate giving up so much size and strength to other teams in our division. I just can't look past that knowing how the game is being played now. Big bodied teams will really take advantage of this roster (especially our D). This will be a fact if the roster remains the same.

Pouliot and Lovejoy has the potential to be a nightmare. Just sayin...

I'm fine with giving our young guys a shot on the 4th line, but I hate giving up so much size and strength to other teams in our division. I just can't look past that knowing how the game is being played now. Big bodied teams will really take advantage of this roster (especially our D). This will be a fact if the roster remains the same.
- madmike71

NYR, TBL, and CHI were all much smaller than the average NHL roster last year. ANA and WSH were the only big physical teams that seemed to achieve good results with their roster. I'm not worried about size or physicality at all. But Maatta, Pouliot, and Cole are all playing in roles beyond what they ever have. I also think the two anchors (Scuderi and Sutter) are going to be major problems in season. Kunitz and Dupuis are two other concerns depending on how they play.

Im pretty excited for next year. I really like the direction the team is going. We have a top notch coach and the team really looks poised to take advatage of his system.

Our defence though inexperienced are all puck movers (Scuds aside before every jumps down my throat). And the best part is we have what looks to be the best top nine we have had since maybe 93! The puck should be moved quicly and efficiently out of our zone before any team is able to establish their forecheck. Each line should have a scoring threat on it.

Kunitz Crosby Hornqvist <-- I dont think Kunitz has lost anything, I think he was injured/sick. And to those bringing up the pervious year, he was injured after slamming into the post right after the Olympics.

Plotnikov Malkin Kessel <-- Plotnikov doesnt need to do anything except go strong to the net on this line. Plot playing on the 2nd line strengthens our 3rd line.

Perron Sutter Dupuis <-- This looks good, lots of speed from Sutter and Duper and some pazzaz and finish from Perron.

Personally I hope we dont sign anymore players and fill the final spots on the 4th line with WBS guys and Bennett. I want to see a line of kids and just turn them loose, tell them to have fun.

Defense I'd like to see

Letang Maata <-- obviously
Pouliot Lovejoy <-- I think Pouliot should be paired with a veteran, he needs to be able to take chances to grow his game and Lovejoy is a smart dman, he will know where he needs to be to cover for Pouliot.
Cole Dumoulin <-- These are two big guys who can skate, Id like to see how they look together.


Barring injuries, I think we are back on top in the East.
- stackthepads

Love the positivity, especially from a guy who had jumped on the trade Malkin bandwagon. Good to have you back ten feet away from the cliff's edge. It's much more relaxing over here

I also think the two anchors (Scuderi and Sutter) are going to be major problems in season.
- jfkst1

Yep, those 21 goals really weighed the Penguins down last year.

Yep, those 21 goals really weighed the Penguins down last year.



- hardnosed

He scored 5 more goals than the average third line center and was below average in every other category. I just don't know how you can keep defending him because he hit the 20 goal mark. Kunitz had 17 goals....was he good last year?

Yep, those 21 goals really weighed the Penguins down last year.



- hardnosed

We'll see how he does this year when he has improved line mates. I predict the 3rd line will still be very average or below average yet again, for the third year in a row.

Yep, those 21 goals really weighed the Penguins down last year.



- hardnosed

im usually right there with you man, but i still cant get on board with thinking that sutter is a good fit for this team.

total garbage player? no. people resort to hyperbole. but for this team, in that spot? i dont know. maybe im being too much of a traditionalist, but i just dont think he excels at what this team needs from that role.

i will agree that yes, his 20 goals are nice when the team slumps. but realistically, if this team as its currently set up needs to rely on the third line center for goals, they will be in trouble regardless.

NYR, TBL, and CHI were all much smaller than the average NHL roster last year. ANA and WSH were the only big physical teams that seemed to achieve good results with their roster.
- jfkst1

Three of the top 5 teams in average weight made the playoffs (Ducks, Jets, Capitals) and three of the bottom 5 teams in average weight made the playoffs (Rangers, Chicago, Calgary). Tampa actually had a higher average weight than the Penguins, and they're a tall team for what that's worth.

But averages are meaningless of course, there's plenty of heavier players who don't play with physicality, and there's plenty of smaller players who play with physicality.

And those "small" teams had a good number of big players - Chicago had Bickell, Seabrook is huge, Hjarmalsson is big, Keith isn't small, Hossa is a hoss, and Sharp and Toews are both plenty big.

In Tampa, Killorn is a big dude, Boyle is monstrous, and the entire D was gigantic except for Matt Carle.

The Penguins don't have any forward the size of Nash, Hayes, or Kreider. Girardi and McDonagh aren't huge, but they're bigger than any Penguins' defensemen besides Cole.

I think toughness and size is a legitimate issue for the Penguins. Once again, as with every single season, how is this team going to beat the trap? Who is going to go and get the puck when it's needed?

He scored 5 more goals than the average third line center and was below average in every other category. I just don't know how you can keep defending him because he hit the 20 goal mark. Kunitz had 17 goals....was he good last year?
- YouMeAndDupuis9

It wasn't *just* the goals. His goal suppression numbers were fantastic, especially considering his usage.

And he's clutch.

In a season without many bright spots, Sutter scoring 21 with no help should have been celebrated, not maligned. But people had already made up their minds last offseason.

im usually right there with you man, but i still cant get on board with thinking that sutter is a good fit for this team.

total garbage player? no. people resort to hyperbole. but for this team, in that spot? i dont know. maybe im being too much of a traditionalist, but i just dont think he excels at what this team needs from that role.

i will agree that yes, his 20 goals are nice when the team slumps. but realistically, if this team as its currently set up needs to rely on the third line center for goals, they will be in trouble regardless.
- stayinthefnnet

What would be a good fit for the team? What kind of center? Issue is, you get someone better than Sutter at scoring goals, and you're talking about Staal pt. II, which would be great to find on an ELC but too expensive if you're talking about going out and getting somebody like him (or him).

Then if you go and get a defensive specialist, they're no help in terms of amplifying the scoring depth. And like I said in another post, Sutter's GA/60 was outstanding. So you're not even paying a defensive center to keep the puck out of the net, you're paying him just to "suppress" a weak perimeter shot 1 more time out of 10 than Sutter already does.

Three of the top 5 teams in average weight made the playoffs (Ducks, Jets, Capitals) and three of the bottom 5 teams in average weight made the playoffs (Rangers, Chicago, Calgary). Tampa actually had a higher average weight than the Penguins, and they're a tall team for what that's worth.

But averages are meaningless of course, there's plenty of heavier players who don't play with physicality, and there's plenty of smaller players who play with physicality.

And those "small" teams had a good number of big players - Chicago had Bickell, Seabrook is huge, Hjarmalsson is big, Keith isn't small, Hossa is a hoss, and Sharp and Toews are both plenty big.

In Tampa, Killorn is a big dude, Boyle is monstrous, and the entire D was gigantic except for Matt Carle.

The Penguins don't have any forward the size of Nash, Hayes, or Kreider. Girardi and McDonagh aren't huge, but they're bigger than any Penguins' defensemen besides Cole.

I think toughness and size is a legitimate issue for the Penguins. Once again, as with every single season, how is this team going to beat the trap? Who is going to go and get the puck when it's needed?
- hardnosed

granted, this could apply to a lot of people, and in a way its unfair to only apply it to him, but NOT sutter.

and that is something that i want my third line center to be able to do

Love the positivity, especially from a guy who had jumped on the trade Malkin bandwagon. Good to have you back ten feet away from the cliff's edge. It's much more relaxing over here
- Victoro311

Well in my defense of the trading Malkin, even in my most outrageous dreams I didnt see us getting a player of Kessels calibre, especially not for what we gave up.

Really Kessel was a gift, we happened to be in the right spot at the right time, Toronto wanted to deal Kessel more than they wanted to get a proper return and it sounds like we were the only team interested that he would go to.

granted, this could apply to a lot of people, and in a way its unfair to only apply it to him, but NOT sutter.

and that is something that i want my third line center to be able to do
- stayinthefnnet

It's not going to be the center in this system, he's going to be the last forward out of the zone the majority of the time because of their 200' of defensive coverage responsibility.

What would be a good fit for the team? What kind of center? Issue is, you get someone better than Sutter at scoring goals, and you're talking about Staal pt. II, which would be great to find on an ELC but too expensive if you're talking about going out and getting somebody like him (or him).

Then if you go and get a defensive specialist, they're no help in terms of amplifying the scoring depth. And like I said in another post, Sutter's GA/60 was outstanding. So you're not even paying a defensive center to keep the puck out of the net, you're paying him just to "suppress" a weak perimeter shot 1 more time out of 10 than Sutter already does.
- hardnosed

i get where youre coming from with sutter actually being somewhat decent at defense. i understand that he is a finesse player who bases his defense on keeping you to the outside and using good stickwork to break things up. paul martin did that on defense for years and was quite well even if he never hit a thing on ice in his life.

but yes. i agree that there isnt necessarily a better fit out there right now. now that they have brought in outside help for the wings, i dont think its a move sutter at all cost mentality. i wanted him moved in a package to bring someone in. i dont think this team benefits from moving him for a second or a prospect and trying to force sundqvist into the role.

but in my ideal world, it is a jordan staal part 2 type guy. the salaries wouldnt work and they dont have the assets to get him, but martin hanzal stands out as the pie in the sky type fit other than staal himself.

granted, this could apply to a lot of people, and in a way its unfair to only apply it to him, but NOT sutter.

and that is something that i want my third line center to be able to do
- stayinthefnnet

Exactly, that's why I want another player other than Sutter. He get's dominated in 50/50 battles. His lack of strength and physicality is obvious in most games.

It wasn't *just* the goals. His goal suppression numbers were fantastic, especially considering his usage.

And he's clutch.

In a season without many bright spots, Sutter scoring 21 with no help should have been celebrated, not maligned. But people had already made up their minds last offseason.
- hardnosed

I actually didn't make up my mind until I read an article from Pensburgh this season showing his alarming numbers relative to other depth centers. Then I started looking into myself on various sites and concluded that he is among one of the more overrated players in the league.

EDIT: Then someone directed me to this site as RW didn't like him either.

Three of the top 5 teams in average weight made the playoffs (Ducks, Jets, Capitals) and three of the bottom 5 teams in average weight made the playoffs (Rangers, Chicago, Calgary). Tampa actually had a higher average weight than the Penguins, and they're a tall team for what that's worth.

But averages are meaningless of course, there's plenty of heavier players who don't play with physicality, and there's plenty of smaller players who play with physicality.

And those "small" teams had a good number of big players - Chicago had Bickell, Seabrook is huge, Hjarmalsson is big, Keith isn't small, Hossa is a hoss, and Sharp and Toews are both plenty big.

In Tampa, Killorn is a big dude, Boyle is monstrous, and the entire D was gigantic except for Matt Carle.

The Penguins don't have any forward the size of Nash, Hayes, or Kreider. Girardi and McDonagh aren't huge, but they're bigger than any Penguins' defensemen besides Cole.

I think toughness and size is a legitimate issue for the Penguins. Once again, as with every single season, how is this team going to beat the trap? Who is going to go and get the puck when it's needed?
- hardnosed

I don't know what their final postseason rosters ranked as, but I am going off of this list:
http://mirtle.blogspot.ca...by-height-weight-and.html

BTW, weight has a very positive relationship with hits and height is largely insignificant so that's what I am basing my "size" factor on. Your favorite player is 6-3 and only weighs 190. Which probably explains some of his ineffectiveness in the boards.

Three of the top 5 teams in average weight made the playoffs (Ducks, Jets, Capitals) and three of the bottom 5 teams in average weight made the playoffs (Rangers, Chicago, Calgary). Tampa actually had a higher average weight than the Penguins, and they're a tall team for what that's worth.

But averages are meaningless of course, there's plenty of heavier players who don't play with physicality, and there's plenty of smaller players who play with physicality.

And those "small" teams had a good number of big players - Chicago had Bickell, Seabrook is huge, Hjarmalsson is big, Keith isn't small, Hossa is a hoss, and Sharp and Toews are both plenty big.

In Tampa, Killorn is a big dude, Boyle is monstrous, and the entire D was gigantic except for Matt Carle.

The Penguins don't have any forward the size of Nash, Hayes, or Kreider. Girardi and McDonagh aren't huge, but they're bigger than any Penguins' defensemen besides Cole.

I think toughness and size is a legitimate issue for the Penguins. Once again, as with every single season, how is this team going to beat the trap? Who is going to go and get the puck when it's needed?
- hardnosed

It seems to me when we start trying to play the tough game is when we start getting into trouble. Who is going to get the puck is kind of a weird question, I have never seen Crosby, Malkin, Hornqvist, Dupuis, Kunitz shy away from getting to the puck.
Getting a couple big guys isnt going to make much a difference against a team of giants like WSH, CBJ, ANA, LA I would rather our players realize that they cant compete with the physicality of those teams so they cant get drawn into playing that type of game.

EDIT: Then someone directed me to this site as RW didn't like him either.
- jfkst1

Perfect phrasing.

It seems to me when we start trying to play the tough game is when we start getting into trouble. Who is going to get the puck is kind of a weird question, I have never seen Crosby, Malkin, Hornqvist, Dupuis, Kunitz shy away from getting to the puck.
Getting a couple big guys isnt going to make much a difference against a team of giants like WSH, CBJ, ANA, LA I would rather our players realize that they cant compete with the physicality of those teams so they cant get drawn into playing that type of game.
- stackthepads

When I talk of physicality, I'm not talking about hitting and beating up the other team. I'm talking about using leverage and positioning. Being able to absorb hits and keep the puck. Most importantly... Getting to the net while teams interfere and hold. I can't be the only one that sees our team getting frequently boxed out.....especially in tight playoff games when penalties are no longer a consideration.

Perfect phrasing.
- hardnosed

What's wrong with someone doing their research and concluding that they don't like a player on their team?

i get where youre coming from with sutter actually being somewhat decent at defense. i understand that he is a finesse player who bases his defense on keeping you to the outside and using good stickwork to break things up. paul martin did that on defense for years and was quite well even if he never hit a thing on ice in his life.
- stayinthefnnet

Thanks for saying that, you get it. Paul Martin hasn't had impressive possession numbers for the past three years, likely for a similar reason - he'll give you the perimeter shot but won't give up the juicy stuff because they're playing conservatively.

I also would rather have an in-your-face, unbreakable beast of a 3rd line center. But there's just not many out there, and there's more than one way to skin a cat. Sutter's method isn't endearing to fans - it's barely noticeable.

Bottom line is, when Sutter's on the ice either even strength or shorthanded, the other team doesn't score very many goals.

That's enough for me in terms of a defensive specialist, not sure what else can be reasonably asked for.

When I talk of physicality, I'm not talking about hitting and beating up the other team. I'm talking about using leverage and positioning. Being able to absorb hits and keep the puck. Most importantly... Getting to the net while teams interfere and hold. I can't be the only one that sees our team getting frequently boxed out.....especially in tight playoff games when penalties are no longer a consideration.
- madmike71

We arent built to lean on teams, we are built to overwhelm teams with speed and skill. I really didnt see getting boxed out as the problem so much as the opponents double teaming Crosby. We were so injured last year that we had no ability to generate offense, our defense couldnt move the puck, Malkin was injured and his line was terrible, all the Rangers had to do was stop Crosby.

If we are healthy this year we are going to be a nightmare to play against. Kessel adds so much to our team it is rediculous. The way I see it the successful teams in the NHL either go all out on speed/skill or all out on size, we've chosen speed/skill.

I don't know what their final postseason rosters ranked as, but I am going off of this list:
http://mirtle.blogspot.ca...by-height-weight-and.html

BTW, weight has a very positive relationship with hits and height is largely insignificant so that's what I am basing my "size" factor on. Your favorite player is 6-3 and only weighs 190. Which probably explains some of his ineffectiveness in the boards.
- jfkst1

Yep, same chart I was going off of.

I only mentioned height briefly in reference to Tampa. And while height might not mean much in terms of hitting, it means a ton in terms of positioning and stick work.

And Sutter is far from my favorite player.