How many players remain effective all the way up until 38? Like 25% of all players?
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Guerin was a far superior player to Dupes. He had 1 last hurrah and was great. The following yr he was done by April. Not nearly effective. Bringing him back for another yr was a mistake.

Remove gm1 last yr and look at Dupes stats, they're nothing amazing. The dude is 36 and hasn't played a full season in 3 yrs now. I think he struggles.
- sammy87

yeah but they haven't been "gahh i'm so old and i'm breaking down" type injuries. He's had a torn ACL and a blood clot. if he had like... constant back problems or a nagging knee injury, then i'd be worried. but it's just been weird stuff.

yeah but they haven't been "gahh i'm so old and i'm breaking down" type injuries. He's had a torn ACL and a blood clot. if he had like... constant back problems or a nagging knee injury, then i'd be worried. but it's just been weird stuff.
- poopmouth

Who knows how well his knee would have held up. Just not sure why Dupes always gets a pass for a top 6 guy here. Fact is he was 29 and on the 4th line when they won a cup. The fact that he was been a 1st line player and locked up till he's 38 IS the problem with the Pens.

Agree. I've been indifferent on Kuni coming back. I think he can still be an effective 3rd liner. However, the thing that worries me is his hands. Most older players eventually lose their touch, and to me, that was the most alarming issue. He mangled a bunch of chances last year.
- madmike71

It was shocking to see how many chances he missed last season.

Who knows how well his knee would have held up. Just not sure why Dupes always gets a pass for a top 6 guy here. Fact is he was 29 and on the 4th line when they won a cup. The fact that he was been a 1st line player and locked up till he's 38 IS the problem with the Pens.
- sammy87

oh i'm most definitely not giving him a top 6 pass. If he is a top 6, then something will have gone wrong.

I think he'll be a hell of a 3rd liner.

Who knows how well his knee would have held up. Just not sure why Dupes always gets a pass for a top 6 guy here. Fact is he was 29 and on the 4th line when they won a cup. The fact that he was been a 1st line player and locked up till he's 38 IS the problem with the Pens.
- sammy87

I think he might end up being one of those guys that has a body give up before the mind does. There are players that can change their game effectively to nurse certain types of problems but the poop Dupes has had just isn't possible to negotiate with. Some freak injury will take him down otherwise I really think he will still be effective no matter where you put him due to his close minded doggedness to play the game.

I've bounced back and fourth on trading Kunitz or not. I never wanted to just get rid of him because we don't need to. My advocation for sending Kunitz out came from if he was part of a package for a younger winger of similar cap hit like Oshie or to make room to sign someone slightly cheaper that could be a lateral move like Fehr, or someone more expensive but could be an improvement like Frolik. I don't see a trade happening anymore and with Matthias off the board, if I'm trying to sign Fehr I'd be looking to make space for him by moving Sutter and have him take 3C rather than move Kunitz and have him play top 9 LW.

So right now, I'd keep Kunitz. His hands looked awful last year and I see his declined shooting percentage as a result from shwiffing on great scoring opportunities rather than not having the legs to get to the areas due to foot fractures and iron deficiencies, although I'm sure that played a part. Since there's not a real option to replace him and we can handle his overpaid cap hit for now, I say we keep this great top 9 forward depth we have in tact and take this year to evaluate whether Kunitz is still worth it or if he's something we need to dump to make room for Perron, Maatta, and possibly Bennett and Dumoulin extensions next season.

I've bounced back and fourth on trading Kunitz or not. I never wanted to just get rid of him because we don't need to. My advocation for sending Kunitz out came from if he was part of a package for a younger winger of similar cap hit like Oshie or to make room to sign someone slightly cheaper that could be a lateral move like Fehr, or someone more expensive but could be an improvement like Frolik. I don't see a trade happening anymore and with Matthias off the board, if I'm trying to sign Fehr I'd be looking to make space for him by moving Sutter and have him take 3C rather than move Kunitz and have him play top 9 LW.

So right now, I'd keep Kunitz. His hands looked awful last year and I see his declined shooting percentage as a result from shwiffing on great scoring opportunities rather than not having the legs to get to the areas due to foot fractures and iron deficiencies, although I'm sure that played a part. Since there's not a real option to replace him and we can handle his overpaid cap hit for now, I say we keep this great top 9 forward depth we have in tact and take this year to evaluate whether Kunitz is still worth it or if he's something we need to dump to make room for Perron, Maatta, and possibly Bennett and Dumoulin extensions next season.
- Victoro311

I just dont see what the return on a 36 yr old who completely fell apart last season would be. His cap isn't terrible and the Pens really have nothing to replace him with. I think he is more valuable on the team than the late round pick/salary dump. Freeing up salary doesn't really solve any issues, there isn't much available that is a better option.

I just dont see what the return on a 36 yr old who completely fell apart last season would be. His cap isn't terrible and the Pens really have nothing to replace him with. I think he is more valuable on the team than the late round pick/salary dump. Freeing up salary doesn't really solve any issues, there isn't much available that is a better option.
- sammy87

That's what I'm saying. His cap isn't a problem this season unless we're trying to sign Franson which I don't think we are. It may, however, be a problem next season when we have to resign a young top 2 defenseman, a top 6 winger, and whatever other moves we want to make. If Kunitz bounces back this year and ups his value, we may be wise to dump him for whatever the best possible package we get regardless of how small or large that may be to get some cap relief. As always, moving Scuderi would go a long way towards not having to do that.

check out the start of the 2nd paragraph......honest mistake or prophecy of continued failure?

It wasnt just Kunitz last year. The whole team went in a scoring funk. They were the second lowest scoring team, Arizona being the worst, in the last few months of the season. I think Kunitz will start the year with Crosby and will be fine.

That's what I'm saying. His cap isn't a problem this season unless we're trying to sign Franson which I don't think we are. It may, however, be a problem next season when we have to resign a young top 2 defenseman, a top 6 winger, and whatever other moves we want to make. If Kunitz bounces back this year and ups his value, we may be wise to dump him for whatever the best possible package we get regardless of how small or large that may be to get some cap relief. As always, moving Scuderi would go a long way towards not having to do that.
- Victoro311

I personally want Rutherford to re-sign both Maatta and Perron this offseason before it becomes a problem. Both will probably end up having career years and then the Pens won't be able to afford both.

I just dont see what the return on a 36 yr old who completely fell apart last season would be. His cap isn't terrible and the Pens really have nothing to replace him with. I think he is more valuable on the team than the late round pick/salary dump. Freeing up salary doesn't really solve any issues, there isn't much available that is a better option.
- sammy87

The question that the article tries to answer is "why did he play so bad last season?"

So there is definitely hope that his bad stats last year were flukey, and not age related. We shall see.

That's what I'm saying. His cap isn't a problem this season unless we're trying to sign Franson which I don't think we are. It may, however, be a problem next season when we have to resign a young top 2 defenseman, a top 6 winger, and whatever other moves we want to make. If Kunitz bounces back this year and ups his value, we may be wise to dump him for whatever the best possible package we get regardless of how small or large that may be to get some cap relief. As always, moving Scuderi would go a long way towards not having to do that.
- Victoro311

That's where hopefully a couple of the young forwards step up this year - Sundqvist moving into the 3m 3C spot gives us some needed room to breath (just don't exhale)!

I personally want Rutherford to re-sign both Maatta and Perron this offseason before it becomes a problem. Both will probably end up having career years and then the Pens won't be able to afford both.
- jfkst1

God I hope Maatta doesn't have his career year next year! Save that for his prime

So right now, I'd keep Kunitz. His hands looked awful last year and I see his declined shooting percentage as a result from shwiffing on great scoring opportunities rather than not having the legs to get to the areas due to foot fractures and iron deficiencies, although I'm sure that played a part. Since there's not a real option to replace him and we can handle his overpaid cap hit for now, I say we keep this great top 9 forward depth we have in tact and take this year to evaluate whether Kunitz is still worth it or if he's something we need to dump to make room for Perron, Maatta, and possibly Bennett and Dumoulin extensions next season.
- Victoro311

Agree with the bolded. He had Blake Comeau-post wrist injury system. He was still getting open, but he couldnt finish (or even get the puck on net most of the time).

Part of me is nervous about what will happen if Perron and Maatta have very good seasons. Obviously, that would be great for this year, but we can't afford Perron near $5M AND Maatta near $5M.

God I hope Maatta doesn't have his career year next year! Save that for his prime
- Victoro311

After losing Martin and Erhoff the Pens are going to need a career year out of him. His career however has only really been one season (and a bit) though...

Agree with the bolded. He had Blake Comeau-post wrist injury system. He was still getting open, but he couldnt finish (or even get the puck on net most of the time).

Part of me is nervous about what will happen if Perron and Maatta have very good seasons. Obviously, that would be great for this year, but we can't afford Perron near $5M AND Maatta near $5M.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Perron makes me nervous because I love his game when he's firing on all cylinders but he's been stupidly streaky his whole career so even if next year merits a 5 mil cap hit, I doubt he'll perform to that level year in and year out. But I'd be loathed to let him walk for nothing after giving up a first for him.

After losing Martin and Erhoff the Pens are going to need a career year out of him. His career however has only really been one season (and a bit) though...
- MattStrat

Pens D will be interesting this yr.....hopefully the Pens can put up 4 + goals a game, if not it will be a long season.

After losing Martin and Erhoff the Pens are going to need a career year out of him. His career however has only really been one season (and a bit) though...
- MattStrat

Throw an Olympic Games Bronze medal into that 'career'.

Perron makes me nervous because I love his game when he's firing on all cylinders but he's been stupidly streaky his whole career so even if next year merits a 5 mil cap hit, I doubt he'll perform to that level year in and year out. But I'd be loathed to let him walk for nothing after giving up a first for him.
- Victoro311

If Perron just has a meh yr, it would be nice to say thanks but were going to try this young stud from WB out next yr and be on their way.....but they can't. Perron's agent holds all the cards.

Pens D will be interesting this yr.....hopefully the Pens can put up 4 + goals a game, if not it will be a long season.
- sammy87

Yeah...Im pretty concerned about the D. Martin was very steady and reliable back there. He was also a very calm influence on everyone. His first pass, skating, spacing and stick work were great.

Sign Maatta 5 yr/ 20 mil. Doooo iitttt

At the end of the day... Kunitz has 2 years left in his contract with a cap hit of 3.85... If he can play in the top 6 that's great... If not, he's more than capable of doin 3rd line duty for the remaining of his contract... I've got no problem with a 3rd line of Kunitz, Sutter, Bennett

If Perron just has a meh yr, it would be nice to say thanks but were going to try this young stud from WB out next yr and be on their way.....but they can't. Perron's agent holds all the cards.
- sammy87

Perron either needs to be re-signed or traded for a 1st round pick/prospect. Anything other than that is a complete failure considering the Pens gave up the #16 pick in a great draft for him.