Ok I will play. Stan puts Seabrook into the package with Sharp and whoever else he really wants to dump.

What does Stan expect or demand back in return?
- RickJ

One answer. NOT the Stanley Cup.

Anyone interested...here's some conversation in Edmonton concerning Seabs and the Hawks situation, plus an interview with Kuc...if interested.

http://www.630ched.com/oilers-now/

Exactly, like he would never trade Saad...

What you need to understand Al is that while trading Seabrook might be one of his last options, ITS STILL AN OPTION because something has to give. You don't want to give Sharp, Bickell and Versteeg for a 6 pack of beer? Then you need to become creative, just like he was with Brandon Saad! Bowman has passed on decent deals for Sharp and Versteeg, this much I know, WHY???
- MexicoHawk

I just want to go on the record that I don't care if Stan trades Sharp, Bickell and Versteeg for a 6 pack of Schlitz, Hamm's, or Falstaff!

As long is it gets Krugs and JO resigned and Seabs extended. Least of Stans worry's should be what return for those 3 is, because at the end of the day, its Salary Cap that he's getting back in the trade.

So that is what this thread is. Lovely.

I don't care what kind of unrealized, cost controlled bullpoop potential a guy has, Brent Seabrook has scored huge goals, made huge plays, stepped into the box in a huge situation and regrouped our captain. ALL his work has directly lead to 3 Cups. His character, leadership, ability to bring it when it matters most IS NOT even CLOSE to being realized if he is traded for a players(s) who has never done it before. FEW players in the current NHL have the pedigree and accomplishments as Brent Seabrook. FEW...so some AHL prospect is even more dubious.

There are TONS of teams out there with "Cost controlled Potential" and they ALL SUCK. Only the teams with proven warriors like Seabook skate the Cup.

I get it...lets just recreate the late 1990s again...lets get rid of the real character of the club, while adding Russians. That will work well.

So this is what our GM is up to? Just going down the pecking order until he finds someone that another team is "willing" to take? Shoot, just shop Kane if that's what it's all about. Cap problem solved. Probably can get some good prospects who are way cheaper than Kane and wow...maybe even scored a big goal in PeeWee Major one year.

This idea needs to go the fook away.
- kwolf68

I agree, let's all just duck our heads into the sand instead! NO ONE on the Hawks wants to trade Brent Seabrook! But they didn't want to trade Brandon Saad either, so why did they, he was 22??? Answer that and you have an answer for considering trading players like Crawford and Seabrook!

On top of that, we don't have a single idea what kind of terms Seabrook's agent is asking the Hawks for! Trading Crawford away next year is a given if the Hawks resign Seabrook, but if its for $7.5 or north, it will be Crawford AND...you have to keep your mind open to all possibilities if you want to get the best possible return for the Hawks, which is exactly what Bowman is doing!

My guess Sharp did not want to go to Dallas.
- roenick

My guess is it was a BS rumor. If Dallas needed a player like Sharp and failed on him why have they not addressed it since? Further, that team is in desperate straights for Defense, no real need for a winger like Sharp.

Where is this much ballyhooed Dallas (snort) deal for Sharp? They wanted to give us all kinds of goodies 3 weeks ago (allegedly)...did they add that elusive top 6 winger yet? NO? Ok good...call Dallas back and say we'll do the deal and we don't even want that much. Unless of course the Dallas rumor was hogwash.
- kwolf68

Have you seen how much their paying for goalies right now?

Not sure Sharp would be in their future right now unless they moved one of their goalies.

Commissioner under Article 26, including:

- fines of $1M-$5M (which count against the cap)
- forfeiture of draft picks (# and type at the discretion of the Commissioner)
- forfeiture of games
- suspension of team employees (including GMs)
- voiding of player contracts IF the player was complicit in the circumvention.


Most likely they would start to wave players until someone grabbed the player off waviers
- DestinBlackhawk

It's a little harsher than I thought it was, thanks

If as you say SB is playing "possum" if you will and he "wins" this little game by giving up sea room and sharp for the sake of cap space... Tell me again what he won?
- fvineze

I don't know within what bounds you are judging this...I am saying that if he deals say Seabrook and Sharp for a return as good as Anisimov and Dano for Saad, that is what he will do!

I agree, let's all just duck our heads into the sand instead! NO ONE on the Hawks wants to trade Brent Seabrook! But they didn't want to trade Brandon Saad either, so why did they, he was 22??? Answer that and you have an answer for considering trading players like Crawford and Seabrook!

On top of that, we don't have a single idea what kind of terms Seabrook's agent is asking the Hawks for! Trading Crawford away next year is a given if the Hawks resign Seabrook, but if its for $7.5 or north, it will be Crawford AND...you have to keep your mind open to all possibilities if you want to get the best possible return for the Hawks, which is exactly what Bowman is doing!
- MexicoHawk

Seabrook > Saad. Saad needed to be signed now and wanted too much bank. Sorry, he's a winger who just scored 52 points playing with 19 and 81 while Mark Stone who scored more than him playing with much less outpaced him. Seabrook is a top pair D-man who brings intangibles that Cup teams MUST HAVE to win. Everyone is good in the NHL and there are numerous teams with the talent to skate the Cup. In fact, I will say right now that Chicago is NOT the most talented team, but they have something special happening and that something special is a core group of guys LEAD by Brent Seabrook. B. Saad did NOT fit that mold (and I was pissed off about that trade, but it's a trade that the Hawks can work over).

Seabrook's asking price is conjecture. No point in using that to debate an argument.

If it was an issue we would have heard from it by now instead of it being, "well damn, I can't trade those 10 guys, let me try to move the next guy on the list" tomfoolery.

No I am not going to be open minded on certain players....After Jonathan Toews, Brent Seabrook is that guy. How many centers are "more talented" than Toews? Probably a couple...I wouldn't trade him for A SINGLE CENTER in the NHL. NOT ONE. I feel pretty much the same way about #7. And it transcends his overall skill, it's the other dynamics that he does that have greatly contributed to Three Cups.

It's a little harsher than I thought it was, thanks
- BetweenTheDots

I THINK that's why they have not announced the deal of Kruger and JO until the have space. They are in a bit of a bind now but announce them and then cant make space then Stan has some trouble.

Nobody really wants to trade Seabrook, to me, 1000 to 1 it would even happen. Just people bored cause there is nothing to discuss.

For me its pretty easy you just;

Trade Sharp, Bickell, and Versteeg for whatever you can get.

Resign Kruger and JO

Extend Seabs at the convention;

Repeat next year.

Its not that difficult
- vabeachbear

Yes, quite possibly, but neither you nor I know what kind of terms Seabrook's agent is discussing with Bowman...there's a number that would make trading Seabrook absolutely necessary, or it will just keep repeating this summer and 2010 over and over and over...

I agree, let's all just duck our heads into the sand instead! NO ONE on the Hawks wants to trade Brent Seabrook! But they didn't want to trade Brandon Saad either, so why did they, he was 22??? Answer that and you have an answer for considering trading players like Crawford and Seabrook!

On top of that, we don't have a single idea what kind of terms Seabrook's agent is asking the Hawks for! Trading Crawford away next year is a given if the Hawks resign Seabrook, but if its for $7.5 or north, it will be Crawford AND...you have to keep your mind open to all possibilities if you want to get the best possible return for the Hawks, which is exactly what Bowman is doing!
- MexicoHawk

You know, I havent looked closely at the numbers, but seems to me there's few players looking at salary increases next year other than Seabs. If the Hawks do trade Sharp and Bicks (I'm still hopeful), and Steeg is off the payroll next year whether they trade him now or not, I'm not sure they need to choose one or the other between Seabs and Craw. Maybe they can fit both. Seabs is at $5.8 cap number now. If he gets $7.5m next year, thats only $1.7 to find room for. Steeg is $1m of that. even a little cap increase fits the rest.

I'm likely missing another player that needs a raise next year. I'll look tonight. Just feels like they have a smaller problem next year, and maybe trading Saad this year takes away the need to choose Seabs or Craw next year.

Mind boggling. What the hell is this guy doing?
- kwolf68

That is exactly the question to ask...either you come up with he's greedy and is possibly making a mistake OR he knows what he is doing!

Yes, quite possibly, but neither you nor I know what kind of terms Seabrook's agent is discussing with Bowman...there's a number that would make trading Seabrook absolutely necessary, or it will just keep repeating this summer and 2010 over and over and over...
- MexicoHawk

Don't you think this is going to be the case anyway? I just think everyone should be used to this now, and if they aren't, better get used to it.

With Kane and Toews contracts, I just don't get how you aren't going to have to do this every year.

To your point about Seabs cost going forward, I guess I'm in the camp that if it is a number that they never could pay, I'd still keep him this year and try and win one last cup with him.

I don't know within what bounds you are judging this...I am saying that if he deals say Seabrook and Sharp for a return as good as Anisimov and Dano for Saad, that is what he will do!
- MexicoHawk

I get it, and I totally agree with you. SB must be prepared to do near anything IF it will improve the team and address the cap. Here is where I nuance that...

SB needs to seriously consider just walking away from Bickell, Versteeg, and maybe even Sharp long before considering trading Seabrook and Sharp unless the trade is absolutely guaranteed to be in his favor. Given what Seabrook and even Sharp mean and contribute to this team, I don't believe there is anyone on the Edmonton team that makes the loss of those contributions palatable (except mcdavid).

You know, I havent looked closely at the numbers, but seems to me there's few players looking at salary increases next year other than Seabs. If the Hawks do trade Sharp and Bicks (I'm still hopeful), and Steeg is off the payroll next year whether they trade him now or not, I'm not sure they need to choose one or the other between Seabs and Craw. Maybe they can fit both. Seabs is at $5.8 cap number now. If he gets $7.5m next year, thats only $1.7 to find room for. Steeg is $1m of that. even a little cap increase fits the rest.

I'm likely missing another player that needs a raise next year. I'll look tonight. Just feels like they have a smaller problem next year, and maybe trading Saad this year takes away the need to choose Seabs or Craw next year.
- Cmonalready

Well, I just double checked. Seabs and Shaw are the only players needing raises next year.

I agree, let's all just duck our heads into the sand instead! NO ONE on the Hawks wants to trade Brent Seabrook! But they didn't want to trade Brandon Saad either, so why did they, he was 22??? Answer that and you have an answer for considering trading players like Crawford and Seabrook!

On top of that, we don't have a single idea what kind of terms Seabrook's agent is asking the Hawks for! Trading Crawford away next year is a given if the Hawks resign Seabrook, but if its for $7.5 or north, it will be Crawford AND...you have to keep your mind open to all possibilities if you want to get the best possible return for the Hawks, which is exactly what Bowman is doing!
- MexicoHawk

Yes, very good but Seabs payday isn't increasing six times over. Saad's payday went from just under a million to $6mil.

Seabs would be going from what $5.9 to $7.5...maybe $8mil. It's still only an increase of $2.1 vs $5mil with Saad.

Yes, quite possibly, but neither you nor I know what kind of terms Seabrook's agent is discussing with Bowman...there's a number that would make trading Seabrook absolutely necessary, or it will just keep repeating this summer and 2010 over and over and over...
- MexicoHawk

With the Salary Cap potential to stay the same or decline in the future and the twins 21 mill in contracts the summer of 2010 could go one for some time regardless.

I know I was not worried about 88 and 19 contracts as I felt the cap would go up but now I'm a bit concerned.

Ok I will play. Stan puts Seabrook into the package with Sharp and whoever else he really wants to dump.

What does Stan expect or demand back in return?
- RickJ

Screw putting Sharp in with Seabrook - it EDM wants Seabs, they take Bickell with him and give us Nurse and Draisaitl.

Ok I will play. Stan puts Seabrook into the package with Sharp and whoever else he really wants to dump.

What does Stan expect or demand back in return?
- RickJ

An Anisimov and Dano-like return for Saad. If he can't, he won't do it. He has already talked to teams about Crawford, but Corey is still here...why? Because what they are offering back helps the other team more than it does the Hawks...or didn't you read my original comments on this issue?

If Seabroook is traded and it aint Seabrook for McDavid then SB should be canned.
- fvineze

and to the other guy who mentioned nurse and draisaitl, same goes..

I just want to go on the record that I don't care if Stan trades Sharp, Bickell and Versteeg for a 6 pack of Schlitz, Hamm's, or Falstaff!

As long is it gets Krugs and JO resigned and Seabs extended. Least of Stans worry's should be what return for those 3 is, because at the end of the day, its Salary Cap that he's getting back in the trade.
- vabeachbear

Exactly, there are large elements of those thoughts that I agree with, but the point is clearly Stan Bowman DOESN'T agree or at least 2 of them would be gone by now...so the questions become, what is Stan Bowman doing, and do you have faith in his abilities or not?

Screw putting Sharp in with Seabrook - it EDM wants Seabs, they take Bickell with him and give us Nurse and Draisaitl.
- EbonyRaptor

The Oilers will be in trouble with the salary cap sooner than they think. Once McDavid completes his ELC he will ask for the moon and get it. And then all of those $6M deals with Hall, Eberle, RNH and Sekera will force their hand. And that will be before they even become a real good team with Cup possibilities.

Exactly, like he would never trade Saad...

What you need to understand Al is that while trading Seabrook might be one of his last options, ITS STILL AN OPTION because something has to give. You don't want to give Sharp, Bickell and Versteeg for a 6 pack of beer? Then you need to become creative, just like he was with Brandon Saad! Bowman has passed on decent deals for Sharp and Versteeg, this much I know, WHY???
- MexicoHawk

I don't want to slam you but your remarks indicate you have no clue how business is done in the NHL. ...I never said Saad couldn't be traded, and it was not the preferred choice but he had to be traded under the circumstances, otherwise Bowman would have gotten only draft picks in return. Bowman had no leverage with an offer sheet scare...And he has no leverage now and really can't/won't try to create any.

Bowman has two players that are a load to trade, in essence they have little value and where your logic defies hockey or business sense is...

You don't make matters worse by tearing a club apart to trade a Seabrook away for a package of young players....This is still a Cup contending team..It will be marketed that way and people will fill the stands night after night as the register keeps humming....There will be no rebuilding here while so many players are in their prime or have not yet reached it.

Bowman doesn't need to risk tearing the team apart to create value for two players that have little...

The fact is Sharp was never worth a 1st rounder and a choice prospect +...Otherwise he would be gone so that is strike one and either was Bickell strike 2...And Bowman isn't going to strike out and cripple a team only to avoid giving Sharp and Bickell away. If he has to add to their package think IceHogs in the last year of their ELC.

Who cares at this point about Sharp and Bickell's value? They kept both players through last summer to have a better chance to win the Cup and did so...Nothing else to prove.

Now it is time to shed the salary of a 33 yr old player coming off a poor season, and one who has shown throughout his AHL and NHL careers to be very inconsistent.

Every big name player still under contract has a no trade or no movement clause...The only ones that will be traded are Sharp and or Bickell.

If Crawford's or Seabrook's or Kane's or anyone else's agent makes a call to McKenzie, Dreger or a Hawks beat writer or anyone in the media and tells them they were asked to present a list of teams...
Than I will be first in line to say your scenario could happen to some extent.

Until then no more keystrokes from me on this stuff.

One answer. NOT the Stanley Cup.
- kwolf68

Again, that's just an opinion...and I get your resistance to trading Seabrook (I don't want to see him gone either), but if his agent is asking for $7.5 million or north for his next deal (???) then the Hawks simply cannot afford it. Even trading Crawford next season for just picks wouldn't be enough space moving forward! Bowman is looking at ways to getting out of this cap hell without losing a chance to win another Cup now...this is why he has to be so "inventive" and creative to make it happen.