James Tanner: PLUS/MINUS: Richards, Kessel & Vermette
Plus, tons more!
- James_Tanner

Good blog James. I admire your willingness to take a stance on things and then take the heat when people invariably disagree.

One note...You mentioned several times that expansion will cause the Cap to rise. But I'm pretty sure that expansion fees are not included in HRR, so they won't affect the Cap.

sure, you have to give up something to try and get something. Shattenkirk was a rookie when he was moved, but a small puck moving Dman (which they felt they had a better one in Barrie in the system) was a surplus of theirs

They didn't have a EJ in the system, A big Top 4 dman who can lug a lot of minute and play a simple sound game. Hes not a true number 1, but hes a good number 2 and does the Job for the Avs.

I dont see any issues with this trade. Dont think Shattenkirk would be putting up the numbers he would be doing if he was the Number 1 man on the Avs right now surrounded by Hejda and Liles for those first couple seasons
- DDM-Coga

This was a bad trade. The Avs traded for EJ's ceiling, not his current production.

Good blog James. I admire your willingness to take a stance on things and then take the heat when people invariably disagree.

One note...You mentioned several times that expansion will cause the Cap to rise. But I'm pretty sure that expansion fees are not included in HRR, so they won't affect the Cap.
- djamon

The expansion fees won't but adding two more revenue generating teams will.

This was a bad trade. The Avs traded for EJ's ceiling, not his current production.
- djamon

I dont think so, it works out for both clubs. Stewart was a guy who being shopped at an all time high and was on the outs w/ management for his lack of commitment and party ways. They might have jumped the gun on Shattenkirk moving him in his rookie season but I'm sure they felt like they could survive since they had multiple dmen like him in the pipeline. EJ is a solid Dman, nothing flashy about him but any time would love to have him

Like I said, Shattenkirk is a great dman but he gets to play with Petro/Jay-Bo and until lately Jackman to start his career.

He would been destroyed being the number 1 with Foote, Hejda, and Liles as his Top 4 partners

So you'd rather have Chris Stewart over Eric Johnson?? The Roy thing is strictly you're opinion. Whether your fancy stats tell you otherwise the avs were first in the west last year and had 92 points this year in the incredibly tough central. Who's to say it's the avs fighting with ROR and not ROR fighting with avs? ROR trade was a pretty good haul.

You're just stuck in conventional thinking
- kessellover69

I highly doubt that I am. Also, pretty sure they gave up Shattenkirk for EJ didnt they?

The expansion fees won't but adding two more revenue generating teams will.
- Hunkulese

But with 46 more players to share costs.

I assume there will be downward presure on the cap based on expansion teams having below average revenue; at least to start

The expansion fees won't but adding two more revenue generating teams will.
- Hunkulese

Unless the assumption is that these 2 teams will generate so much more revenue than the average current NHL team does I don't see their presence raising the Cap "significantly" as was mentioned. If anything, adding 2 teams dilutes the effect each team's individual contribution will be to the overall HRR.

Good blog James. I admire your willingness to take a stance on things and then take the heat when people invariably disagree.

One note...You mentioned several times that expansion will cause the Cap to rise. But I'm pretty sure that expansion fees are not included in HRR, so they won't affect the Cap.
- djamon

Yeah but with two new and (one assumes) profitable teams, would it not? Also more jobs etc.

Damn dude! I'm a big fan of your columns for the entertainment they provide. But this is completely spot on. You are the first person I've read who completely, 100% gets the situation the Kings have put themselves in. Well done!!!!
- yzermaneely

Appreciate it.

What inconsistency? He's literally one of the most consistent NHL players of the last five years. This is exactly the non-sense that prompted me to write that post.

And he is the one of the fastest players in the league. He isn't out of shape, I call BS>
- James_Tanner

You can't always compare speed to being in shape. Kessel was genetically born with superior speed. I have friends that are incredibly fast runners and very out of shape. They can beat most people I know in a 50yrd dash but will get pummeled after that 50yrds. Kessel is not conditioned, just look at him when he gets off after a shift - he can barely breath. He disappears shifts and games at a time - and scores in bunches.
He plays zero defense and that has to do with both laziness and bad conditioning.

Yeah, Kessel is definitely not in shape and you really have no clue what you are talking about if you think he is......most Leaf fans know he is not - even though he is incredibly fast. Once he loses that step, he is finished.
Hopefully someone in the Pens organization can have him change his living style - eat better, take better care of himself and work out!

As for consistency, the poster your were responding too was right on the money. Yes he consistently puts up good stats when it's all said and done but he is not a consistent point producer game to game. He scores in bunches and disappears in bunches too. It was felt way more so on the Leafs because without him going, they were in big trouble. On Pittsburgh, it won't be felt as much because they have other great options.

I dont think so, it works out for both clubs. Stewart was a guy who being shopped at an all time high and was on the outs w/ management for his lack of commitment and party ways. They might have jumped the gun on Shattenkirk moving him in his rookie season but I'm sure they felt like they could survive since they had multiple dmen like him in the pipeline. EJ is a solid Dman, nothing flashy about him but any time would love to have him

Like I said, Shattenkirk is a great dman but he gets to play with Petro/Jay-Bo and until lately Jackman to start his career.

He would been destroyed being the number 1 with Foote, Hejda, and Liles as his Top 4 partners
- DDM-Coga

I'm not saying they should have necessarily been criticized for the trade, but it was a bad one nonetheless. The Avs are just lucky Stewart didn't turn out the way many thought he would.

Good blog James. I admire your willingness to take a stance on things and then take the heat when people invariably disagree.

One note...You mentioned several times that expansion will cause the Cap to rise. But I'm pretty sure that expansion fees are not included in HRR, so they won't affect the Cap.
- djamon

50 more players in the NHL might have an effect.

The Avs weren't a good team the year before, they were a team that got lucky, went against the odds of probability and had success despite being brutally out-possessed. They weren't good.

This isn't meant as a shot against the Avs who I have nothing personally against, but 100% they are becoming known for making terrible decisions.

Also, I don't think plus minus means anything.

ROR is worth every penny.
- James_Tanner

You don't "get lucky" over an 82 game season. That's just asinine.

And they are only "100% becoming known for making terrible decisions" in the camp of people who think Paul Stastny (how did that work out for you, St. Louis) and ROR are the only good thing to come out of Colorado since The Banquet Beer.

And it's really funny how people like you only seem to think plus/minus doesn't mean anything if the player they are trumpeting is a minus. If you are asking for almost $8mil/per either you better have a decent plus/minus or be named, "Ovechkin".

O'Reilly, to this point, hasn't proven he is actually worth much more than your average 20-goal scorer. The *potential* may be there but to state he is, "worth every penny" of the Buffalo contract implies that you can divine the future or know something the rest of us don't (the first being impossible and the second, based on the drivel you just posted, being improbable).

Great article until you got to the Oilers. Yawn. Heard this all before; sorry if after a decade of this, some need to see it to believe it. And that defense really isn't that good at all. Reinhart was bad in the NHL this past year, as was Schultz. Nurse is talented but green, and Sekera is good but overpaid. That's an average at best defense. Many teams are better in D. Just because average is better than they've had doesn't make it "fantastic."

You can't always compare speed to being in shape. Kessel was genetically born with superior speed. I have friends that are incredibly fast runners and very out of shape. They can beat most people I know in a 50yrd dash but will get pummeled after that 50yrds. Kessel is not conditioned, just look at him when he gets off after a shift - he can barely breath. He disappears shifts and games at a time - and scores in bunches.
He plays zero defense and that has to do with both laziness and bad conditioning.

Yeah, Kessel is definitely not in shape and you really have no clue what you are talking about if you think he is......most Leaf fans know he is not - even though he is incredibly fast. Once he loses that step, he is finished.
Hopefully someone in the Pens organization can have him change his living style - eat better, take better care of himself and work out!

As for consistency, the poster your were responding too was right on the money. Yes he consistently puts up good stats when it's all said and done but he is not a consistent point producer game to game. He scores in bunches and disappears in bunches too. It was felt way more so on the Leafs because without him going, they were in big trouble. On Pittsburgh, it won't be felt as much because they have other great options.
- Cooshie

Then why did he finish 3rd best fitness on the Leafs last September?

Perehaps it's people reading Steve Simmons who has no clue.

I'm not saying they should have necessarily been criticized for the trade, but it was a bad one nonetheless. The Avs are just lucky Stewart didn't turn out the way many thought he would.
- djamon

Like I said, Stewart was sold at his highest, 30some games of really solid up to his potential. But apparently after a few seasons of him showing glimpse of his potential and not taking training seriously, always partying and causing headaches for the management. They shipped him out. If you watched him enough you would have realized that the guy just is a frustrating inconsistent player and probably will never put it all together

HE was traded when he was, as the story goes, the Avs were going on a huge slide going to the allstar weekend and were read the riot act from coaching staff. Stewart just went to Vegas, got in a little trouble, and that was the end of that.

They also got the 11th overall pick (Siemens) so yeah that doesn't help with the value (injuries has held him back the past 2 seasons) but if they had Hamilton (9th) or Brodin (10th) instead of him, well then it would been how brilliant that trade was. When you have high draft picks in a trade, its always a gamble,

Couldn't agree more about the Kessel and Oilers stuff. Pens got a hell of a deal when you consider he's most comparable to Kane and Kessel's cap hit is almost 4 million less. Didn't they make all that fuss about Kessel showing up to camp out of shape only to have him finish top 3 on the team in the fitness testing?
- Hunkulese[/quote]

Yes. And the Toronto media chose not to report it. It screwed with their "Kessel is Fat" horsebleep they were feeding their audience.

Then why did he finish 3rd best fitness on the Leafs last September?

Perehaps it's people reading Steve Simmons who has no clue.
- RogerRoeper

Did he admit he only skated 10 times during the off season?

Then why did he finish 3rd best fitness on the Leafs last September?

Perehaps it's people reading Steve Simmons who has no clue.
- RogerRoeper

Steve Simmons is a quack!!
Kessel being out of shape has nothing to do with that quacks observations.

Kessel's teammates have talked about what a genetic freak he is....born with everything an athlete could possibly want. His bad lifestyle will catch up to him though. Kessel publicly admitted to how little off-season working out he did. Just look at him, he does not take care of himself. You must have seen him as often as me hunched over on the bench barely being able to breath after tons of shifts.

I wish him the best, he was the only thing really worth watching on the Leafs the last 5yrs.

50 more players in the NHL might have an effect.
- StargateSG1

On the Cap? How so?

James, Avs fans can admit that the organization hasn't been the model franchise the past few years, but saying they are the worst is so crazy. They are still in the bottom of the league based on some of the stuff they have done in the past, but its only been 2 years that the Kroenke has finally opened his wallet and is now pouring assets into the team.

Before it was 7 some years of cheaping out and just keeping the team afloat, not really building up any sort of farm team or prospects since that costs money for personal in a proper scouting department, development coaches, etc. he was busy putting his assets into buying Football Arsenal and trying to figure out a way to get the St Louis Rams to LA. But now he has invested interest in the Avs again so Daddy Warbucks seems to want to turn things around

So the worst ran team and worst coach stuff is really just opinion based spite

The magnificent offensive wonder that is Jake Gardiner was last in on ice GF/60 of any regular Leaf defensemen. That's right, behind Roman Polak.

This is despite him being sheltered with more offensive zone starts than any regular besides Robidas.

Must just be more bad luck
- sbroads24

oh comon he's the next bobby orr haven't you heard? james has some nice cherry picked stats to prove it

Steve Simmons is a quack!!
Kessel being out of shape has nothing to do with that quacks observations.

Kessel's teammates have talked about what a genetic freak he is....born with everything an athlete could possibly want. His bad lifestyle will catch up to him though. Kessel publicly admitted to how little off-season working out he did. Just look at him, he does not take care of himself. You must have seen him as often as me hunched over on the bench barely being able to breath after tons of shifts.

I wish him the best, he was the only thing really worth watching on the Leafs the last 5yrs.
- Cooshie

No he did not. He said he only skated a few times. He never said he didn't exercise.

And if he's so out of shape, why did he get such great fitness results? Why has he been able to be PPG with a medicore second line centre. Why has he missed 0 games the past 6 yeArs.

All you're doing is regurgitating the Tornto media garbage.

Did he admit he only skated 10 times during the off season?
- StargateSG1

Yes. And what does that mean? He never said he did not exercise.

That trade was Stewart ADN Shattenkirk for EJ.
- Snowblind

Stewart no longer has a NHL team, and Shattenkirk is on the trade block.
Seems like a win for the avs at this point.