1) If they're not comparable, why did you open your argument citing Mason?

2) We already have a full load of NHL defensemen, plus Manning and the prospects, 4 of which (if you include Alt) are playing professionally this year. I'd like to make it possible that 1 of them make the team this season out of camp. But if we keep signing more vets for multiple years, you hurt that windown.

But sure, let's throw 3 years at everyone who's not terrible.
- jmatchett383

1) Steve Mason wasn't any good for 5 years prior to being traded here.

2) Michael Del Zotto just turned 25 six days ago.

Anything else?

Yes, I'm biased against him. But even still, I just don't think he's worth more than $2.5M a year. I can't help the way I feel towards his play.

I was also biased against Rinaldo because I thought he was a liability. I guess Hexy got scammed by Sweeney, only getting a 3rd back. Should have held out for a few first rounders.
- jmatchett383

You are about as rational as my wife, while on the rag sans dark chocolate and ice cream..

How does Rinaldo's trade (which anyone with even a half of a brain, including my wife while on the rag WITH dark chocolate and ice cream, would know was an absolute steal) pertain to our discussion of MDZ?

Recapture penalties are retro active, deals signed before the new CBA, are not immune to recapture penalties. If a team paid out more in cap hit then in salary when they had the player, then he was traded, they are not subject to cap recapture penalties.
- MJL

Capgeek disagress.

http://capgeek.org/nhl-ca...advantage-recapture-grid/

No penalties apply to Philadelphia or Columbus because Carter was traded before the 2013 CBA came into effect.

No penalties apply to Philadelphia because Richards was traded before the 2013 CBA came into effect

but at any rate Richards cap hit is $5.75m and the seasons he played in Philly he got paid an average of $5.8m so there was no advantage gained.

http://www.generalfanager.com/players/1001

08-09 5.4
09-10 5.6
10-11 6.4

Recapture penalties are retro active, deals signed before the new CBA, are not immune to recapture penalties. If a team paid out more in cap hit then in salary when they had the player, then he was traded, they are not subject to cap recapture penalties.
- MJL

Thank you, didn't know know that; was just going off what I thought I saw Friedman or one of the other big hockey guys said via twitter.

The veterans aren't really blocking anyone's way. They can be moved to make room if neccessary. They're holding down the fort, until the young players are ready.
- MJL

I disagree, but don't feel like a 90-page discussion with you about it.

I have problem with giving MDZ a one-year deal if Hexy feels that he's earned it. Two years is pushing it, depending on hit. What I don't want to do see if a 3+ year deal at $3M or more because frankly, I don't see him as a piece moving forward long-term.
- jmatchett383

I think a 1 year deal would be almost perfect. Makes it also very nice to trade if needed at the deadline too. Say 1 year @ 3.25. Just say we are a bubble team and Del Zotto has another good year. Could be a nice asset to a playoff team needing more from the back end.

1) Steve Mason wasn't any good for 5 years prior to being traded here.

2) Michael Del Zotto just turned 25 six days ago.

Anything else?
- SuperSchennBros

Define 5 years?

I think Mason's year was better than MDZs year, but I get where you are coming frm.
If MDZ were to take anther step forward, then yes, 3/4 years at 3-3.5AAV would be worth it.
But, I really want to see it again.
I wish he would sign 1 year at 2.5 and prove it. that is almost a 100% raise.
- nails

My argument is that its not realistic. He has had 1 season where he wasnt productive in his career to date. The one bad year really has been a outlier. Last years contract to me was the "prove your worth" contract. This year's contract will be a prove that you proved what your worth?

I dont see it..

1) Steve Mason wasn't any good for 5 years prior to being traded here.

2) Michael Del Zotto just turned 25 six days ago.

Anything else?
- SuperSchennBros

You didn't ask how long Mason played, you simply asked how long it took for him to get his extension (you were going for one year, the same time that MDZ has been here). And I don't give a (frank) how old he is, he's a vet and will (likely) get paid like one as opposed to a player on an ELC or second deal.

My argument is that its not realistic. He has had 1 season where he wasnt productive in his career to date. The one bad year really has been a outlier. Last years contract to me was the "prove your worth" contract. This year's contract will be a prove that you proved what your worth?

I dont see it..
- jak521

5 years $4M a year.

What a steal! He's good at passing!

I'd prefer we play a defenseman who's good at...oh, I don't know...playing defense, maybe? Sounds crazy, I'm sure, because flashy stats=good.

You didn't ask how long Mason played, you simply asked how long it took for him to get his extension (you were going for one year, the same time that MDZ has been here). And I don't give a (frank) how old he is, he's a vet and will (likely) get paid like one as opposed to a player on an ELC or second deal.
- jmatchett383

By this logic, I suppose we should trade everyone by the age of 25.

5 years $4M a year.

What a steal! He's good at passing!
- jmatchett383

See: My wife.


I made a comment, you argued it, I defended it, you got angry and irrational.

Never did I say, I would sign him long term. Never did I say what I (me personally) think he is worth.

All I have said is that I think its gonna be more than 2.5.

If he signs for 2.5 million, I'll be very happy.

EDITED: Just saw your edit. MDZ might not be Lidstrom, but he is also not Mike Green. He plays a sound defensive game. Any d-man who has offensive flair will get caught from time to time.

Define 5 years?
- nails

My apologies, 4 seasons. He had a great rookie season.

I disagree, but don't feel like a 90-page discussion with you about it.
- jmatchett383

You should make an attempt because if your gonna push others to make their points clear, maybe you should do the same.

5 years $4M a year.

What a steal! He's good at passing!

I'd prefer we play a defenseman who's good at...oh, I don't know...playing defense, maybe? Sounds crazy, I'm sure, because flashy stats=good.
- jmatchett383

Not trying to be a Richard but in todays NHL the two way game is huge. So passing is a good attribute to have in a defenseman. That's why Provorov rose so quickly. HIs two way game is impressive.

By this logic, I suppose we should trade everyone by the age of 25.
- SuperSchennBros

If we have players who are in the system who can do what they do better for cheaper, assuming we're not in a win-now (or next year) mode, and none of the players are good fits that the team needs at that position, then yes.

We have players in the system who, by the time we are in a "win-now" mode should be able to match or come close to matching his play for a fraction of the price. He does not fill a position of need, as we already have 6 NHL defensemen (7 if you count Manning). Therefore, I don't want to give him a contract past 2 years.

When Boston comes to Philly this season, how many PIMs do you think Rinaldo will have (if he isn't in Providence)?

Capgeek disagress.

http://capgeek.org/nhl-ca...advantage-recapture-grid/



but at any rate Richards cap hit is $5.75m and the seasons he played in Philly he got paid an average of $5.8m so there was no advantage gained.

http://www.generalfanager.com/players/1001

08-09 5.4
09-10 5.6
10-11 6.4
- Feanor

Traded is different from what the poster stated, which is that deals signed before the CBA are not subject to recapture. That is not true, for example, Duncan Keith's deal would be subject to recapture penalties, if he retires early. I wasn't 100% sure on why the Flyers weren't subject to the penalties, but the reason I gave, is a potential reason why they wouldn't be.

A Richards update: http://espn.go.com/los-an...lves-mike-richards-source

According to the report, he's part of an ongoing investigation by RCMP. I guess they aren't done yet as no charges have been filed.

See: My wife.


I made a comment, you argued it, I defended it, you got angry and irrational.

Never did I say, I would sign him long term. Never did I say what I (me personally) think he is worth.

All I have said is that I think its gonna be more than 2.5.

If he signs for 2.5 million, I'll be very happy.

EDITED: Just saw your edit. MDZ might not be Lidstrom, but he is also not Mike Green. He plays a sound defensive game. Any d-man who has offensive flair will get caught from time to time.
- jak521

Why do you want me to see your wife? Sorry, but I'm married, I doubt my wife would like that.

I got angry? It's called hyperbole (I believe)?

Also, most of this was not directed towards you, and the bulk of it is, again, sarcasm/hyperbole.

My argument is that its not realistic. He has had 1 season where he wasnt productive in his career to date. The one bad year really has been a outlier. Last years contract to me was the "prove your worth" contract. This year's contract will be a prove that you proved what your worth?

I dont see it..
- jak521

my impression of this year for him was one where he learned how to play correctly again.
regardless of what I think of Berube, he did bench the guy for quite a few games.

He is a fine puck move and skater. I just don't know that I trust him as an actual D man. I am not an advanced stat guy, so maybe those will bare that out.
I also don't think you need more than one guy like MDZ on a team and I get the impression that Ghost is the next MDZ. If Ghost is ready next year (16-17) then you don;t need DZ.

If Hexy wants to sign him longer than 2 years, I am fine with it if it is without a movement clause.

When Boston comes to Philly this season, how many PIMs do you think Rinaldo will have (if he isn't in Providence)?
- Streit2ThePoint

Eleventy.

You should make an attempt because if your gonna push others to make their points clear, maybe you should do the same.
- SuperSchennBros

Have you seen what happens when you try to converse with MJL? Just ask Tomahawk.

A Richards update: http://espn.go.com/los-an...lves-mike-richards-source

According to the report, he's part of an ongoing investigation by RCMP. I guess they aren't done yet as no charges have been filed.
- johndewar

Smuggling drugs across borders (speculation) isn't looked kindly upon.

I disagree, but don't feel like a 90-page discussion with you about it.
- jmatchett383

Disagreeing is fine, but there isn't much to support it. If the Flyers needed to make room for some younger players, they wouldn't have much of an issue trading Schultz, Schenn, Del Zotto, and even Medvedev. MacDonald and Streit would be harder based on the term of cost of their deals, but they could even be dealt. Defenseman are at a premium.