I'm not sure if I'm just dumb or it's actually confusing, but could somebody explain to me how to read the Impact on Linemates charts? What do the different opacities of circles represent, and what is the relevance of always having 5?
- Sandus

I believe each dot represents a year. Darkest color dot would be most recent, the lighter or more opaque dots as you go represent previous years.

Just for kicks...who do you guys think becomes the better NHLer... Sprong or Kapanen?
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Both seemed motivated by falling in the draft. From what I've read, I would say Sprong has all the abilities, but there's so many players that have talent but struggle to keep focused. Seems like he's lost without the puck. So I would say Kap and his high hockey IQ and plenty of skill might be the safer bet.
That being said all I've watched are highlight and read plenty of scouting reports so I really have no idea

PA - yes, I think he has skill and gas in the tank to be a solid 3rd line guy with upside.

Just curious what others think of this...I'm wondering how confident people are in Maatta's ability to stay away from injury over the long run? He's already had a few surgeries and his value seems to be sky high still. I'm wondering whether, from an asset management perspective, it would indeed make sense to deal him now for Kessel assuming TOR takes back $2mil/yr over the 8 year duration (perhaps even more as TIOPS has reported)?

Sure Maatta may remain out of the infirmary, but usually players who get injured a lot early on seem to never really reach their potential due to cascading injuries...

PIT still has DP, Demoulin and Harrington, and if they can resign Martin to something creative (to play w/Letang) and a guy like Beauchemin/Hejda/etc to play #4, would that not make sense as a reasonable gamble? Kessel at $6mil is pretty decent given that a guy like Frolik is going to get around $5-5.5...who PIT may end up signing as well btw. The $6mil cap hit will be a decreasing portion of the cap over time, and before the 8 years is up, maybe in 3-4 years if Maatta was playing at his potential, could very well demand more than $6mil/year at that point anyway...

Thoughts?

I'm not sure if I'm just dumb or it's actually confusing, but could somebody explain to me how to read the Impact on Linemates charts? What do the different opacities of circles represent, and what is the relevance of always having 5?
- Sandus

Darker color is most recent 3 year average, lighter color is from further in the past.

PA - yes, I think he has skill and gas in the tank to be a solid 3rd line guy with upside.

Just curious what others think of this...I'm wondering how confident people are in Maatta's ability to stay away from injury over the long run? He's already had a few surgeries and his value seems to be sky high still. I'm wondering whether, from an asset management perspective, it would indeed make sense to deal him now for Kessel assuming TOR takes back $2mil/yr over the 8 year duration (perhaps even more as TIOPS has reported)?

Sure Maatta may remain out of the infirmary, but usually players who get injured a lot early on seem to never really reach their potential due to cascading injuries...

PIT still has DP, Demoulin and Harrington, and if they can resign Martin to something creative (to play w/Letang) and a guy like Beauchemin/Hejda/etc to play #4, would that not make sense as a reasonable gamble? Kessel at $6mil is pretty decent given that a guy like Frolik is going to get around $5-5.5...who PIT may end up signing as well btw. The $6mil cap hit will be a decreasing portion of the cap over time, and before the 8 years is up, maybe in 3-4 years if Maatta was playing at his potential, could very well demand more than $6mil/year at that point anyway...

Thoughts?
- mventres

I don't think there is any chance TOR retains salary. They would rather get back a worse return than retain salary for the length of Kessel's contract.

Pouliot has been pretty injury prone too in his short career. Maatta is younger and more proven so far. But I understand your argument.

I'd rather the team focus on the young dmen playing. If they do sign someone, getting Franson would be best as he is a young RH dman.

Darker color is most recent 3 year average, lighter color is from further in the past.
- Ryan_Wilson

That makes sense, thank you.

I don't think there is any chance TOR retains salary. They would rather get back a worse return than retain salary for the length of Kessel's contract.

Pouliot has been pretty injury prone too in his short career. Maatta is younger and more proven so far. But I understand your argument.

I'd rather the team focus on the young dmen playing. If they do sign someone, getting Franson would be best as he is a young RH dman.
- jfkst1

I'm assuming the TIOPS report has some truth to it, that while TOR would prefer to take on a bad contract, they would be very open to chewing up 2+mil if they can get Maatta in return. The same report indicates they won;t be interested in retaining salary on Kessel for any other D prospect on PIT. That is why I was focusing on Maatta. If PIT can somehow swing Maatta + 1st in 2016 for Kessel+$2.5mil retained/yr, I am pretty sure I'd be all over that...and I think TOR would be as well since Kessel's no trade list is pretty restrictive and that may be their really only option - aside from retaining him and hoping for a better deal later on (however, given the list of teams none of them is likely to suddenly come into a lot of cap room).

Ryan Wilson: Should Pittsburgh Take Advantage of The Buyouts to Paranteau and Richards?
Should Pittsburgh Take Advantage of The Buyouts to Paranteau and Richards?
- Ryan_Wilson

Mike Richards? by all means.... let me know how it turns out.

I'm assuming the TIOPS report has some truth to it, that while TOR would prefer to take on a bad contract, they would be very open to chewing up 2+mil if they can get Maatta in return. The same report indicates they won;t be interested in retaining salary on Kessel for any other D prospect on PIT. That is why I was focusing on Maatta. If PIT can somehow swing Maatta + 1st in 2016 for Kessel+$2.5mil retained/yr, I am pretty sure I'd be all over that...and I think TOR would be as well since Kessel's no trade list is pretty restrictive and that may be their really only option - aside from retaining him and hoping for a better deal later on (however, given the list of teams none of them is likely to suddenly come into a lot of cap room).
- mventres

I don't think anything TIOPS reports is accurate. Strictly conjectures. I look forward to having answers to all our specuation (hopefully) in a week from now.

I don't think anything TIOPS reports is accurate.
- jfkst1

That may be true...or not...I'm just assuming that it is for argument sake.

Someone is going to give both a try. They have too much history to not take a gamble on them. PA had great points for a while and Richards was once good enough to play on Team Canada. Either can be a LeClair like player. He was nothing until being traded to Philly. This would be a cheap way to fill some depth for any team and it could pay off huge.

You would have to want them for one year contracts but I think the right team can land them in the range of 1-2 mill per season. In today's market, this is not a ton of money. I think there will be several teams to beat on this though. Vancouver I would imagine has to take a chance on someone like these two.

Mike Richards? by all means.... let me know how it turns out.
- Woodysdemise

I think you already know; I will be comparing him to our last buyout signing-Christian Ehrhoff. Ehrhoff quit on this team and that contributed to his injuries, I think that is what we will see from Richards.

Ok Vinny for Scuds. You may have to retain some $ or give us a pick.

PA. Yes. Do it!

Frolik, Parenteau, Franson, Plotnikov, Tikhonov and maybe Martin.

Call it an offseason.

PA - yes, I think he has skill and gas in the tank to be a solid 3rd line guy with upside.

Just curious what others think of this...I'm wondering how confident people are in Maatta's ability to stay away from injury over the long run? He's already had a few surgeries and his value seems to be sky high still. I'm wondering whether, from an asset management perspective, it would indeed make sense to deal him now for Kessel assuming TOR takes back $2mil/yr over the 8 year duration (perhaps even more as TIOPS has reported)?

Sure Maatta may remain out of the infirmary, but usually players who get injured a lot early on seem to never really reach their potential due to cascading injuries...

PIT still has DP, Demoulin and Harrington, and if they can resign Martin to something creative (to play w/Letang) and a guy like Beauchemin/Hejda/etc to play #4, would that not make sense as a reasonable gamble? Kessel at $6mil is pretty decent given that a guy like Frolik is going to get around $5-5.5...who PIT may end up signing as well btw. The $6mil cap hit will be a decreasing portion of the cap over time, and before the 8 years is up, maybe in 3-4 years if Maatta was playing at his potential, could very well demand more than $6mil/year at that point anyway...

Thoughts?
- mventres

It's going to come back to the medical team. They need to identify any weaknesses in his physical makeup so that the trainers can help protect the areas by training & building muscle. They should be able to work around any physical deficiencies & provide assistance so he can play. In saying that any injury or potential weakness the Pens staff can find will be found by other teams medical staff.

If nothing's there then full steam ahead to a brilliant all star career (touch wood ).

He may have returned too early from the offseason so it may have just been bad luck (or bad practice by the docs), & he won't have any further problems provided he let's the injury heal properly.

PA. Yes. Do it!

Frolik, Parenteau, Franson, Plotnikov, Tikhonov and maybe Martin.

Call it an offseason.


- HopintheCordoba

Would you need Franson if Martin is resigned with our young D needing space??

Would you need Franson if Martin is resigned with our young D needing space??
- Aussiepenguin

I would still sign him, yes. Martin isn't a guarantee and even if he is it's just stopgap/depth. I would prefer to run with just youth but we have to be careful with that because of the very likely scenario of injuries.

Franson will probably get a 4-5 year deal. Martin is more than likely looking 1-2. I'd have Dumoulin and Harrington at the ready if Martin isn't brought back. Lovejoy is still there for now. Buyout Scuderi or trade him if you can.

Maatta-Letang
Cole-Franson
Pouliot-Martin

Dumoulin-Lovejoy
Harrington

Buyout Scuderi

I would still sign him, yes. Martin isn't a guarantee and even if he is it's just stopgap/depth. I would prefer to run with just youth but we have to be careful with that because of the very likely scenario of injuries.

Franson will probably get a 4-5 year deal. Martin is more than likely looking 1-2. I'd have Dumoulin and Harrington at the ready if Martin isn't brought back. Lovejoy is still there for now. Buyout Scuderi or trade him if you can.

Maatta-Letang
Cole-Franson
Pouliot-Martin

Dumoulin-Lovejoy
Harrington

Buyout Scuderi
- HopintheCordoba

I think Martin will want 3 or 4 and somebody will give it to him. It shouldn't be us. Good player, but he's our next Scuderi if we give him that length of contract.

I would still sign him, yes. Martin isn't a guarantee and even if he is it's just stopgap/depth. I would prefer to run with just youth but we have to be careful with that because of the very likely scenario of injuries.

Franson will probably get a 4-5 year deal. Martin is more than likely looking 1-2. I'd have Dumoulin and Harrington at the ready if Martin isn't brought back. Lovejoy is still there for now. Buyout Scuderi or trade him if you can.

Maatta-Letang
Cole-Franson
Pouliot-Martin

Dumoulin-Lovejoy
Harrington

Buyout Scuderi
- HopintheCordoba

Ummm... you high? Why does Martin suddenly want a 1-2 year deal? Pretty sure I saw that we had an offer floated to him that was frontloaded and over 6 year at like, 30 million.

--- Is that even legal?

We wont be sellers at the deadline. Buyers or hockey trades. Pretty sure thats a 1000% guarantee.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

While itd be awesome to have those 2 picks at the 2016 draft, you could always immediately flip one in a package for a younger player. Trade Kunitz for a 1st (hopefully), then turn around and send that 1st along with Dumo or Harrington and 1 or 2 of our 3rd round picks.

Ummm... you high? Why does Martin suddenly want a 1-2 year deal? Pretty sure I saw that we had an offer floated to him that was frontloaded and over 6 year at like, 30 million.
- Guile

No...just hadn't heard that.

$30M over 6 years for Martin!?

I was thinking we only look into him if they both can agree on something that is lighter. It's not the best for him and if he walked that would be expected I guess. I'm not interested unless he was going shorter term. Franson for that money would sound about right though.

While itd be awesome to have those 2 picks at the 2016 draft, you could always immediately flip one in a package for a younger player. Trade Kunitz for a 1st (hopefully), then turn around and send that 1st along with Dumo or Harrington and 1 or 2 of our 3rd round picks.
- drummer829

Ah... so, get an extra 1st just to sell it off for a prospect that already looks promising to a team that has a few.


Stop using logic! Penguins aren't allowed to do sensible moves!!!

No...just hadn't heard that.

$30M over 6 years for Martin!?
- HopintheCordoba

I'll try and track down the post on here that someone had the tweet from, give me a bit, theres been a lot of stuff over the draft days.

I'll try and track down the post on here that someone had the tweet from, give me a bit, theres been a lot of stuff over the draft days.
- Guile

Wow... that was kinda easy.

its getting worse...

William DePaoli ‏@TIOPS_DePaoli 1m1 minute ago

Penguins having significant discussions internally to get creative to resign Paul Martin. Front loaded deal, term 6 yrs -- under 35 contract
- YouMeAndDupuis9

My bad, thinking I was remembering the "under 35" part as 30 mil... Still, 6 years, thats asking for trouble.

I would still sign him, yes. Martin isn't a guarantee and even if he is it's just stopgap/depth. I would prefer to run with just youth but we have to be careful with that because of the very likely scenario of injuries.

Franson will probably get a 4-5 year deal. Martin is more than likely looking 1-2. I'd have Dumoulin and Harrington at the ready if Martin isn't brought back. Lovejoy is still there for now. Buyout Scuderi or trade him if you can.

Maatta-Letang
Cole-Franson
Pouliot-Martin

Dumoulin-Lovejoy
Harrington

Buyout Scuderi
- HopintheCordoba

The fans would hate this, even if Martin did sign short term, because the team would again have very little money invested in the forward group and almost all of it in the blue line. Granted, if healthy, Pens would have a stacked blue line. But since they have been eliminated 3 years in a row due to lack of scoring, I know this would be an unpopular decision.