Here is where your assessment is lacking

all of those guys, with the exception of Doughty have accomplished jack sh/t in the playoffs and none of those guys have raised their game at both ends of the ice like keith has come postseason play
- FourFeathers773

yeah you gotta remember, Weber hasn't played on teams nearly as strong as the hawks. Giordano has been on complete poop teams up until this year. Hedman is 24 and this is only his 3rd trip to the playoffs. I don't look at accomplishments when evaluating single players. A LOT of other factors play into accomplishments of a player, mainly being the team they played for, and the teammates/ linemates/pairings they played with.

Pretty sure you meant Playoff.......unless you are powerenforcer
- TheTrob

No, I think he wrote what he wrote......smart man.

Here is where your assessment is lacking

all of those guys, with the exception of Doughty have accomplished jack sh/t in the playoffs and none of those guys have raised their game at both ends of the ice like keith has come postseason play
- FourFeathers773

Feathers, you again seem to lack the understanding of someones opinion. Valid arguments could be made for any of those players being on par with Keith, which they are. What they have accomplished doesn't really come into the discussion. The failures of Webers teams to advance in the playoffs are not a direct result of him. Hedman is 24 and having a pretty good playoff run. What had Keith accomplished at 24? Gio has been on poor teams. You can't eliminate players from the conversation because of limited playoff exposure. The argument is who is the best current D-man in the league, and opinions will vary among observers, with no overall #1.

...All, Remains to be seen but not at this time

Lidstrom was a true phenom, and the benchmark for modern day d-men. You have to agree Keith is the best d-man the Hawks have iced since Chelios. Both of those guys have the hardware to show for it (be it well short of Niklas). Another Cup and the Conn Smythe Trophy cements Duncs claim over all you listed, even without it only Drew has anything close to Keith and his trophy case has afeww empty spots.
- Cup-Bearer

That's why I said "could be" brother. I think keith might take the cake as the hawks best dman ever. He is in my book at least.

Feathers, you again seem to lack the understanding of someones opinion. Valid arguments could be made for any of those players being on par with Keith, which they are. What they have accomplished doesn't really come into the discussion. The failures of Webers teams to advance in the playoffs are not a direct result of him. Hedman is 24 and having a pretty good playoff run. What had Keith accomplished at 24? Gio has been on poor teams. You can't eliminate players from the conversation because of limited playoff exposure. The argument is who is the best current D-man in the league, and opinions will vary among observers, with no overall #1.
- TheTrob

Im talking the EYE TEST, not his trophy case

When is the last time Weber, Hedman, or any of the other guys besides Doughty had a sparkling game like Keith had last night logging around 30 minutes every night, not to mention what, 50 minutes in game 4?

I would argue those guys NEVER had individual performances like keith did last night, and has had in the past

Feathers, you again seem to lack the understanding of someones opinion. Valid arguments could be made for any of those players being on par with Keith, which they are. What they have accomplished doesn't really come into the discussion. The failures of Webers teams to advance in the playoffs are not a direct result of him. Hedman is 24 and having a pretty good playoff run. What had Keith accomplished at 24? Gio has been on poor teams. You can't eliminate players from the conversation because of limited playoff exposure. The argument is who is the best current D-man in the league, and opinions will vary among observers, with no overall #1.
- TheTrob

as someone mentioned before, swap out duncan keith for shea weber over the same time span, its not a stretch to say the hawks still win those 2 cups with weber eating the huge minutes. if duncan keith is on nashville vs weber, nashville doesnt win a cup. its apples and oranges when looking at team accomplishments.
- flyershockey

No chance IMO. Weber would require another style.... and I do like Weber.

As goes Keith so goes the Hawks possession numbers. Keith is a unique animal.

Doughty is similar and young. If his foot speed remains he could be as good by 28-30 as Keith. Ekblad looks a lot like Keith too. Letang can be like that in his best games but no one has held the level of consistency Keith has for as long - the talent around him does help but he is as important to their game right now as Toews IMO. When Keith slows down....

Im talking the EYE TEST, not his trophy case

When is the last time Weber, Hedman, or any of the other guys besides Doughty had a sparkling game like Keith had last night logging around 30 minutes every night, not to mention what, 50 minutes in game 4?

I would argue those guys NEVER had individual performances like keith did last night, and has had in the past
- FourFeathers773

Dude... you're missing the point here.

Feathers, you again seem to lack the understanding of someones opinion. Valid arguments could be made for any of those players being on par with Keith, which they are. What they have accomplished doesn't really come into the discussion. The failures of Webers teams to advance in the playoffs are not a direct result of him. Hedman is 24 and having a pretty good playoff run. What had Keith accomplished at 24? Gio has been on poor teams. You can't eliminate players from the conversation because of limited playoff exposure. The argument is who is the best current D-man in the league, and opinions will vary among observers, with no overall #1.
- TheTrob

Yes but i think we cann all agree Letang should not be in the #1 conversation.

Everyone I think is as good, if not better than keith (no specific order)

doughty Close, but he's not Keith
karlsson (offensively) - He's awful defensively
weber - Not on Keith's level
Giordano - Not even close
Subban - On par
Hedman - Nearly on par


Players I think could be at keith's level in the not too distant future

OEL - Could be
Carlson - No
Josi - Could be
Ekblad - Could be
Faulk - No chance
- benjichronic

No chance IMO. Weber would require another style.... and I do like Weber.

As goes Keith so goes the Hawks possession numbers. Keith is a unique animal.

Doughty is similar and young. If his foot speed remains he could be as good by 28-30 as Keith. Ekblad looks a lot like Keith too. Letang can be like that in his best games but no one has held the level of consistency Keith has for as long - the talent around him does help but he is as important to their game right now as Toews IMO. When Keith slows down....
- tredbrta

keith is really really good, dont get me wrong. hes also been partnered with a good d partner who plays a different style so they complement each other really well. with the amount of t alent the hawks have drafted / brought in, for me, they win 2 cups with weber over keith, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

Dude... you're missing the point here.
- benjichronic

No, youre just failing to consider all aspects of the evaluation, which is JJs point

The fact that you mentioned someone like Faulk almost made me piss myself

Everyone I think is as good, if not better than keith (no specific order)

doughty
karlsson (offensively)
weber
Giordano
Subban
Hedman


Players I think could be at keith's level in the not too distant future

OEL
Carlson
Josi
Ekblad
Faulk
- benjichronic

I would respond but after looking at your list there really is no point. Have a good day.

I am glad you think selective reading is cool, because you are a champ at it. The quotes is coming from a Sabre's reporter and mentions info from "somebody in the league" and says the Sabres are looking for D in return and then mentions Cam. It doesn't say the Ducks were offering him either, so how does that burst the Duck's fan's bubble again?
- emcane

Because the Ducks fan stated it as an absolute (since corrected) - Fowler was never offered, never part of a discussion etc....

Anyone can be discussed and Fowler probably was.... Not as if Murray hasn't discussed players that surprised us before? Or even lied about discussing players - how often did he deny Bobby Ryan was being shopped before he actually was?

Everyone I think is as good, if not better than keith (no specific order)

doughty
karlsson (offensively)
weber
Giordano
Subban
Hedman


Players I think could be at keith's level in the not too distant future

OEL
Carlson
Josi
Ekblad
Faulk
- benjichronic

Yeh, that's why Babcock gave him a regular shift in Sochi. Wait, he didn't. Suban played 2 games, Keith played them all. So Mike Babcock likes Keith over Subban.

Im talking the EYE TEST, not his trophy case

When is the last time Weber, Hedman, or any of the other guys besides Doughty had a sparkling game like Keith had last night logging around 30 minutes every night, not to mention what, 50 minutes in game 4?

I would argue those guys NEVER had individual performances like keith did last night, and has had in the past
- FourFeathers773

Then you need to watch more Hockey outside of Chicago.

Look, I am a huge Duncan Keith fan. If you want my opinion he is the best 2 way defenseman in the league at this point in time. We are not however in the Lidstrom era, when he was unquestionably considered the #1 D in the league. There are other players in the discussion, most because they are better in the Offensive zone. Keith dominates because he plays in a system that accentuates his strengths and because he CAN play both ends of the ice. I think there are several players in the discussion who ARE better offensively than Keith, but most of the Norris discussion is because of that. You would be hard pressed to name another player who is better Defensively, yet still offers the same amount on the offensive side.

Because the Ducks fan stated it as an absolute (since corrected) - Fowler was never offered, never part of a discussion etc....

Anyone can be discussed and Fowler probably was.... Not as if Murray hasn't discussed players that surprised us before? Or even lied about discussing players - how often did he deny Bobby Ryan was being shopped before he actually was?
- tredbrta

Let him go. He tried to spin it as a buffalo reporters hypothetical trade ask until I pointed out that the person reporting it was Renaud Lavoie, a montreal reporter for TVA sports, then he didnt have much else to say...

Then you need to watch more Hockey outside of Chicago.

Look, I am a huge Duncan Keith fan. If you want my opinion he is the best 2 way defenseman in the league at this point in time. We are not however in the Lidstrom era, when he was unquestionably considered the #1 D in the league. There are other players in the discussion, most because they are better in the Offensive zone. Keith dominates because he plays in a system that accentuates his strengths and because he CAN play both ends of the ice. I think there are several players in the discussion who ARE better offensively than Keith, but most of the Norris discussion is because of that. You would be hard pressed to name another player who is better Defensively, yet still offers the same amount on the offensive side.
- TheTrob

I probably watch more hockey than you if you think I just sit and watch Pat Foley call all of my hockey games

No chance IMO. Weber would require another style.... and I do like Weber.

As goes Keith so goes the Hawks possession numbers. Keith is a unique animal.

Doughty is similar and young. If his foot speed remains he could be as good by 28-30 as Keith. Ekblad looks a lot like Keith too. Letang can be like that in his best games but no one has held the level of consistency Keith has for as long - the talent around him does help but he is as important to their game right now as Toews IMO. When Keith slows down....
- tredbrta

If Team Canada were competing in a tournament this summer you could be certain that Weber, Keith, Doughty and Pietrangelo would be the first 4 defenceman chosen. Giordano would likely get the next call.

Steve Yzerman wouldn't even bother to ask for Kris Letang's phone number. PK Subban would likely be in a battle for the 6-7 spot.

Does that prove who is better than who? - No. But Duncan Keith is sure making a case for who is the best defenceman this spring just like Doughty did last spring.

Pretty sure you meant Playoff.......unless you are powerenforcer
- TheTrob

Just catching up...well played sir.

No, youre just failing to consider all aspects of the evaluation, which is JJs point

The fact that you mentioned someone like Faulk almost made me piss myself
- FourFeathers773

The fact that I mentioned Justin Faulk of the Carolina hurricanes will be near keiths level in the future made you piss yourself? You must not have watched him this year.... I believe (I'm not gonna research it) I read at some point, that the only person who scored more than him in the second half was karlsson (for defensemen). Please, watch the kid. He's 23 and scored 49 points, and played solid defense all year. When keith was 26 years old, his highest point total at that point, was 44. I don't wanna make this about point totals, and I don't wanna make this a persuasive essay on why you should think Justin faulk is gonna be the next great dman.

My main point is, if you're gonna compare player ABC to player XYZ, you can't factor in team accomplishments when saying abc is better than xyz. Someone else said it, if weber and keith were on opposite teams all these years, would Nashville have 2 cups, and be in 5 wcf's in 7 years? No. That's my main point. We're gonna compare players, okay fine, but don't bring the players teams into especially if you were to compare say, Gio and keith. Flames have been bottom feeder poopty for the same amount of time that the hawks have been a powerhouse... See what I'm saying?

The fact that I mentioned Justin Faulk of the Carolina hurricanes will be near keiths level in the future made you piss yourself? You must not have watched him this year.... I believe (I'm not gonna research it) I read at some point, that the only person who scored more than him in the second half was karlsson (for defensemen). Please, watch the kid. He's 23 and scored 49 points, and played solid defense all year. When keith was 26 years old, his highest point total at that point, was 44. I don't wanna make this about point totals, and I don't wanna make this a persuasive essay on why you should think Justin faulk is gonna be the next great dman.

My main point is, if you're gonna compare player ABC to player XYZ, you can't factor in team accomplishments when saying abc is better than xyz. Someone else said it, if weber and keith were on opposite teams all these years, would Nashville have 2 cups, and be in 5 wcf's in 7 years? No. That's my main point. We're gonna compare players, okay fine, but don't bring the players teams into especially if you were to compare say, Gio and keith. Flames have been bottom feeder poopty for the same amount of time that the hawks have been a powerhouse... See what I'm saying?
- benjichronic

Justin Faulk is an abolute train wreck defensively

peddle your laughable comparisons elsewhere

and they let go a faceoff violation late in the game that would have put the blackhawks down a man. i haven't seen any blackhawks fans mentioning that when criticizing the refs.
- nurk

Wrong again, troll.

I've seen several posts here saying calls were missed on both teams. There is no question though more non calls are favoring the quacks simply because of their size requiring a clutch and grab style.

The momentum shifting (or attempt to) call on Richards could have been called all night long - more so on the Ducks though. Just at the end I sit (the east goal) there had to be 3 more interference penalties that could have been called per period. Their picks and hooking are the only way they keep the cycle going. Hey, if Wes McCauley and Pollack are not going to whistle an obvious penalty - have at it until it is.

What is sad is Boudreaux and Perry's whining brought results. If it continues it puts the Hawks at a disadvantage Saturday. Another WCF influenced unnecesarily by subjective officiating will be a real shame.

Then you need to watch more Hockey outside of Chicago.

Look, I am a huge Duncan Keith fan. If you want my opinion he is the best 2 way defenseman in the league at this point in time. We are not however in the Lidstrom era, when he was unquestionably considered the #1 D in the league. There are other players in the discussion, most because they are better in the Offensive zone. Keith dominates because he plays in a system that accentuates his strengths and because he CAN play both ends of the ice. I think there are several players in the discussion who ARE better offensively than Keith, but most of the Norris discussion is because of that. You would be hard pressed to name another player who is better Defensively, yet still offers the same amount on the offensive side.
- TheTrob

I think you are to quick to dismiss Keith's offensive contributions. He is every bit as good offensively as Karlsson. It is more subtle and isn't reflected in points all the time. Keith also doesn't have to carry the puck all the way up ice because he has players with him who can do it.

Well it been a beautiful day here the HAWKS flag on the car (yes I am one of those guy's) flying proudly a little beat up had it for 4 or 5 years now maybe more . Friends bug me about my little superstitions and worry about my old cat's mental health during HAWKS games, I told them Sammy like Glen Hall she threw up before the game the other night . Anyway hoping the HAWKS get some rest and come out with a solid game Sat . They seamed to play a more patience GAME last night ,and wait for the breaks . All most went threw the Roof on that 2nd goal by Ana ,just total BS . Hopefully the Officials don't decide it like last year , if they do hope it is in our favor we are due ..GO HAWKS !!!!!!!!