How about JVR... if you can get a pick in the top 10 this year for him, do you move him?
- user1

of course. 3 years left, why would he resign here?

You mean the guy who's drafted the best crop of young pitching prospects the team has ever seen develop together, traded the Vernon Wells contract, and traded Brett Lawrie and some more B level pitching prospects he also drafted for the guy who has the 2nd best WAR of any position player in MLB over the past 3 seasons and who is under team control for cheap for the next 4 seasons? Garbage GM.
- 1979AD

He's not "garbage" but he's also not that great. Sure he's done some good moves but he hasn't done anything with the team collectively. Where are we? Last place...again.

His Donaldson trade was a good trade but didn't really fill a hole the team had. That's what trades are for.

He had a 5 year plan to make it to the playoffs and he hasn't really sniffed them other than in May/June ever. To keep his job he has thrown a real young and real old rotation together in hopes it pans out. It hasn't so far.

All I hear from his fans is "we'll have a great time for YEARS to come so be patient". It was said five years ago.

I'd give 10 years of garbage for a championship.

of course. 3 years left, why would he resign here?
- clark_griswold

Yummers... I could only imagine what we could get for him.

How does scoring 30-35 goals every year (except this past one) not work here?
Keeping him here will not be a repeat of the past 5/6 years.
Leafs will need scoring in 2 years time.

But if they decide to move him......you give him a chance this year to raise his value.
Trading him now while his value is at an all time low.....is stupid.
- Fakepartofme

2 years? i think you are very optimistic. and his value will not increase as his team will be even worse. GMs won't take this season as a make or break. it's a LONG rebuild, kessel will be 30 in 2 years (which again is completely optimistic).

it doesn't work here....well because look at the standings for the last 6 years....

You mean the guy who's drafted the best crop of young pitching prospects the team has ever seen develop together, traded the Vernon Wells contract, and traded Brett Lawrie and some more B level pitching prospects he also drafted for the guy who has the 2nd best WAR of any position player in MLB over the past 3 seasons and who is under team control for cheap for the next 4 seasons? Garbage GM.
- 1979AD

He has made some glaring mistakes though...

Napoli for Fransisco
Happ for Saunders
The Hill trade that left 2nd base empty until recently, johnson was pretty crap.
The Halladay trade is extreme mediocre at best, although he had only 2 options.
Davis was wasted for nothing.
Richardey trade
Banking on Arencibia.

He has made some good trades, but some crap ones as well...

Someone's in denial. You want to see a great number of pitching prospects go look at the Red Sox prospects.
- KesselRules

Not even close. You and I have nothing more to discuss.

Not even close. You and I have nothing more to discuss.
- 1979AD

of course. 3 years left, why would he resign here?
- clark_griswold

I think so too, if Kessel and JVR can each get top 12 picks + prospects then Toronto comes out looking pretty, the #4 pick, 2 more in the top 12 and one later in the round, pretty good kick start to a rebuild

Our 50 million dollar coach will make them better.
The saviour will turn these chumps into champs!

- Fakepartofme

that wasn't my point. My point was that I think JVR is a bigger liability than Kessel is. So trade him while his cheap contract is still hiding that fact. Because as soon as he signs his big pay day, the blinders will come off and everyone will screaming what horrible +/- he has...get rid of the bum.

Not even close. You and I have nothing more to discuss.
- 1979AD

Yup pure denial. OUR SAVIOR JESUS AA will save us.

Red Sox are #2 in prospect rankings from baseball america http://www.baseballameric...nization-talent-rankings/

Edit: Also, a team that has won the world series recently having that high of a ranking is good? I don't know maybe we should ask AA.

Let's not forget all their pitchers that tore up the minors last year ARE STILL IN THE MINORS. Unlike for AA, he'll just call them up.

kessel and jvr are being wasted here. sure they may put up great offense, but it's useless. the team sucks.

you trade them for young players who will (THIS IS ALL 'HOPEFULLY') grow with the rest of your prospects etc for a good team 3-5 years away. Will it work for sure? nothing's for sure...except of course keeping kessel/jvr with this team will result in failure.

that's how they're being wasted.

He has made some glaring mistakes though...

Napoli for Fransisco
Happ for Saunders
The Hill trade that left 2nd base empty until recently, johnson was pretty crap.
The Halladay trade is extreme mediocre at best, although he had only 2 options.
Davis was wasted for nothing.
Richardey trade
Banking on Arencibia.

He has made some good trades, but some crap ones as well...
- aminnes

Oh for sure. He's been far from perfect, but a near future rotation that includes 5 of Stroman, Norris, Hoffman, Sanchez, Osuna, Hutchison with Donaldson for cheap in the middle of the lineup buys a poop ton of currency with me.

The Marlins and then the Richardey trade were a result of 'win now' pressure from ownership, and unfortunately didn't work out, although it was a valiant attempt. (frank)in' Josh Johnson

If the incoming Pres does want to hire his own GM, I hope they find a way to keep AA on to head up the scouting dept.

Yup pure denial. OUR SAVIOR JESUS AA will save us.

Red Sox are #2 in prospect rankings from baseball america http://www.baseballameric...nization-talent-rankings/

Edit: Also, a team that has won the world series recently having that high of a ranking is good? I don't know maybe we should ask AA.

Let's not forget all their pitchers that tore up the minors last year ARE STILL IN THE MINORS. Unlike for AA, he'll just call them up.
- KesselRules

...

kessel and jvr are being wasted here. sure they may put up great offense, but it's useless. the team sucks.

you trade them for young players who will (THIS IS ALL 'HOPEFULLY') grow with the rest of your prospects etc for a good team 3-5 years away. Will it work for sure? nothing's for sure...except of course keeping kessel/jvr with this team will result in failure.

that's how they're being wasted.
- clark_griswold

But I would miss JVR's twirly, behind the goal line, between the legs shooty thing that hits the goalie's chest protector every time.

But I would miss JVR's twirly, behind the goal line, between the legs shooty thing that hits the goalie's chest protector every time.
- Atomic Wedgie

Hey it worked.... twice!

Not all about stats but since you brought it up, all those goals and still a minus 35 every year... That goes for the whole top line. Phil will get a mediocre return especially considering he has a no trade, and there might be 5 teams that could even seriously consider dealing for him. Temper you expectations with this one...
- aminnes

No offence bro but you think we get a mediocre return for Kessel mesns you have no idea on what really good hockey players are worth...if you have nothing smart to say ...say nothing at all (you'll seem smarter) shhhh..

But I would miss JVR's twirly, behind the goal line, between the legs shooty thing that hits the goalie's chest protector every time.
- Atomic Wedgie

oh i like jvr alot...but in the greater good he has to go.

Fancy Stats?... So the Leafs having one of the best scoring lines and yet all three are brutal minuses means nothing?... But you are comparing players...
- aminnes

I think +/- tells a story...but there are those that don't. All I'm saying is I don't feel a lot of what's being thrown around RE Kessel and his value lines up with what I've observed about his ability and what actual hockey media "experts" feel he will fetch on the open market. He's being under-valued in my opinion. Time will tell who's right.

But I would miss JVR's twirly, behind the goal line, between the legs shooty thing that hits the goalie's chest protector every time.
- Atomic Wedgie

http://video.mapleleafs.n...ocenter/console?id=632351

Oh for sure. He's been far from perfect, but a near future rotation that includes 5 of Stroman, Norris, Hoffman, Sanchez, Osuna, Hutchison with Donaldson for cheap in the middle of the lineup buys a poop ton of currency with me.

The Marlins and then the Richardey trade were a result of 'win now' pressure from ownership, and unfortunately didn't work out, although it was a valiant attempt. (frank)in' Josh Johnson

If the incoming Pres does want to hire his own GM, I hope they find a way to keep AA on to head up the scouting dept.
- 1979AD

I agree, I also think the Gibbons re hire was really weird and dumb. Johnson was the true screw up in that deal, but then he was injured and the club should have been more vigilant in their due diligence... They do have some good young arms going forward but EE and JB are getting older, as one window opens another is closing and I have little faith he can find good replacements in the future as he seems to deal with one aspect of the team while allowing another to diminish...

No offence bro but you think we get a mediocre return for Kessel mesns you have no idea on what really good hockey players are worth...if you have nothing smart to say ...say nothing at all (you'll seem smarter) shhhh..
- Daddichronic

You said nothing there so?.... I said that 2 1sts, a 2nd, a prospect and a guy good enough for another 1st at the deadline is to expect to much and be let down, so mediocre in terms of comparing to this scenario...

A dump makes it sound so undesirable but in this case it would serve the Leafs well, its all 1 big return for Kessel in the end... say he gets traded to Florida for a 1st, prospect and a player with a 4 million cap hit for 2 more years that playoffs teams would be looking at come next March and theyflip that player for another 1st rounder in next years draft... even sign selected free agents in hope they have a good year and some good worth at trade deadline
- user1

Speaking of which, took delivery of a "Squatty Potty" yesterday (as seen on Sharktank last year) and so far so good!

Someone's in denial. You want to see a great number of pitching prospects go look at the Red Sox prospects.
- KesselRules

He wasn't comparing them to other teams, just to the Jay's own history.

Speaking of which, took delivery of a "Squatty Potty" yesterday (as seen on Sharktank last year) and so far so good!
- Deeps27

Pretty amazing how technology has made it that we can't even take a poop properly anymore.

I agree, it still isn't a bad deal, but guys thinking the moon is coming back need to calm down, there will be few suitors, and he has to want to go to one of them, then they have to make a deal from a relative position of weakness. A 1st, 2nd, prospect and salary dump is likely IMO...
- aminnes

Where are you getting this info? Everything I've read/viewed indicates there will be multiple suitors. Fine not to like Kessel as a player and cherry-pick spots to poke holes in his stats, but you are under-valuing him pure and simple. He's not a perfect player, but there are very few of those...