LOL wow...

if Kessel had an actual center, he'd score minimum 40+ goals easily.
- MCharisma91

best to stay away from hypotheticals....

again, put him with kopitar in LA. great centre. wait, what's this? kessel has to backcheck and play in a defensive physical system? oh there goes his offense.

unless it's with Sid/Malkin, kessel and most if not all other wingers usually get the same amount of points.

putting kessel in a system where accountability is required and not pond hockey is what will counterbalance giving him a better center.
- clark_griswold

Not just a better centre, but also better support on other lines too... And on the blueleine.

Not just a better centre, but also better support on other lines too... And on the blueleine.
- burn

what you are saying works in theory, but again, remember that few (if any) teams played a run and gun style like the leafs. Most other teams play way tighter and phil must be more accountable.

Take a guy like Lucic. i bet he gets more points with kessel and bozie than in boston, and boston is a way better team. the system teams play is just as big as the players in it.

You misunderstand me. I think Kessel is great and will get a solid return. However, most people forget to factor what the other team is doing/building/their plan when they make trades up.

Sure Kessel is worth #11 but maybe Florida really wants a first round pick in THIS draft and won't do the deal unless one is coming back.

Essentially it's Kessel for the #11 and then #24 for something else from Florida. Maybe the first next year and a 2nd this year. I don't know exactly but it would be a hard sell I think to give up the #11 in "a deep draft".
- Aaron_85

No, we get it...overpayment by Leafs.

No, we get it...overpayment by Leafs.
- Deeps27

Can get Bozak for the 11th pick but not Kessel

More like a REFORMAT
- twiztedmike

You ate too much CTRL-V as a kid

Can get Bozak for the 11th pick but not Kessel
- user1

Great insight - thanks for furthering the discussion

Whoever posted it earlier - #9 league-wide in production last 3 years...yet Leafs need to eat salary, take a bad contract and get a less than market return in order to move him. Makes total sense.

what you are saying works in theory, but again, remember that few (if any) teams played a run and gun style like the leafs. Most other teams play way tighter and phil must be more accountable.

Take a guy like Lucic. i bet he gets more points with kessel and bozie than in boston, and boston is a way better team. the system teams play is just as big as the players in it.
- clark_griswold

I think Kessel would be able to score in other systems just fine.

Great insight - thanks for furthering the discussion

Whoever posted it earlier - #9 league-wide in production last 3 years...yet Leafs need to eat salary, take a bad contract and get a less than market return in order to move him. Makes total sense.
- Deeps27

They will have to take a contract only so the deal can go through, not many teams can just eat up 8 million dollars but it will be an asset they can flip for a pick at the deadline and no they wont be paying any of Kessel's salary i wouldnt think

I think Kessel would be able to score in other systems just fine.
- burn

Imagine him with a legitimate play-making C...should offset any system change and likely enhance his production.

They will have to take a contract only so the deal can go through, not many teams can just eat up 8 million dollars but it will be an asset they can flip for a pick at the deadline and no they wont be paying any of Kessel's salary i wouldnt think
- user1

Have a look at Mr. Augello's blog a little closer...addressed this.

I think Kessel would be able to score in other systems just fine.
- burn

he would. but would his numbers jump way up? that's the question. point is, giving him a 'better' center doesn't immediately make him the Art ross favorite. other factors play in and in most cases, guys remain static even when changing teams.

Imagine him with a legitimate play-making C...should offset any system change and likely enhance his production.
- Deeps27

we'll all find out after the trade

Great insight - thanks for furthering the discussion

Whoever posted it earlier - #9 league-wide in production last 3 years...yet Leafs need to eat salary, take a bad contract and get a less than market return in order to move him. Makes total sense.
- Deeps27

Not all about stats but since you brought it up, all those goals and still a minus 35 every year... That goes for the whole top line. Phil will get a mediocre return especially considering he has a no trade, and there might be 5 teams that could even seriously consider dealing for him. Temper you expectations with this one...

They will have to take a contract only so the deal can go through, not many teams can just eat up 8 million dollars but it will be an asset they can flip for a pick at the deadline and no they wont be paying any of Kessel's salary i wouldnt think
- user1

Guys also have to realize that any money taken off the leafs cap is relief and a positive part of any trade...

Not all about stats but since you brought it up, all those goals and still a minus 35 every year... That goes for the whole top line. Phil will get a mediocre return especially considering he has a no trade, and there might be 5 teams that could even seriously consider dealing for him. Temper you expectations with this one...
- aminnes

Gotcha. I'd encourage you to raise yours.

+/- has been de-bunked by Fancy Stats proponents hasn't it?

Ovechkin really floundered this year when put in a proper system with defensive structure and capable players around him...wish the Leafs had of got him last couple years when his +/- was terrible...obviously would have been a salary dump for Washington. I'm not comparing the players, but come on.

Imagine him with a legitimate play-making C...should offset any system change and likely enhance his production.
- Deeps27

Easier said than done.. Top flight centres get paid a good chunk of change, at 8 million, even a 5 million dollar centre puts two guys on the top line at 13 million, throw in another good winger and things start looking thin throughout the rest of the forwards... Phil was paid strictly based on stats, but overall game and sensible cap structure he shouldn't have got a dime over 6 million...

Guys also have to realize that any money taken off the leafs cap is relief and a positive part of any trade...
- aminnes

Right and the contract coming back wont be horrible either, a decent player that could fetch a decent return at the deadline

Gotcha. I'd encourage you to raise yours.

+/- has been de-bunked by Fancy Stats proponents hasn't it?

Ovechkin really floundered this year when put in a proper system with defensive structure and capable players around him...wish the Leafs had of got him last couple years when his +/- was terrible...obviously would have been a salary dump for Washington. I'm not comparing the players, but come on.
- Deeps27

Fancy Stats?... So the Leafs having one of the best scoring lines and yet all three are brutal minuses means nothing?... But you are comparing players...

Right and the contract coming back wont be horrible either, a decent player that could fetch a decent return at the deadline
- user1

If thats the case, but if for instance, Stalberg comes back as the dump, it shows the reality of Phils true worth.... No one is gonna take that on without a dump IMO...

Not sure if The Hockey News is among the sites we can't link to here, but here's an article that covers that whole thing

http://www.thehockeynews....ong-shot-than-youd-think/

If it needs to be taken down, I'll PM it to ya. Good for getting your hopes up, if nothing else.
- TheThrill

it'll be interesting to see how yzerman plays this out. I imagine he'll attempt to sign him before the season starts. Does he trade him if he can't sign him???

One thing is certain, there won't be a shortage of rumors once TB's playoffs are done.

If thats the case, but if for instance, Stalberg comes back as the dump, it shows the reality of Phils true worth.... No one is gonna take that on without a dump IMO...
- aminnes

A dump makes it sound so undesirable but in this case it would serve the Leafs well, its all 1 big return for Kessel in the end... say he gets traded to Florida for a 1st, prospect and a player with a 4 million cap hit for 2 more years that playoffs teams would be looking at come next March and theyflip that player for another 1st rounder in next years draft... even sign selected free agents in hope they have a good year and some good worth at trade deadline

New cap site
http://www.capfriendly.com

New cap site
http://www.capfriendly.com
- LeafMan

Ducks are rocking it with only 50M invested?

Bastards!

A dump makes it sound so undesirable but in this case it would serve the Leafs well, its all 1 big return for Kessel in the end... say he gets traded to Florida for a 1st, prospect and a player with a 4 million cap hit for 2 more years that playoffs teams would be looking at come next March and theyflip that player for another 1st rounder in next years draft... even sign selected free agents in hope they have a good year and some good worth at trade deadline
- user1

I agree, it still isn't a bad deal, but guys thinking the moon is coming back need to calm down, there will be few suitors, and he has to want to go to one of them, then they have to make a deal from a relative position of weakness. A 1st, 2nd, prospect and salary dump is likely IMO...