Can we all agree on this: NO MORE ADAMS!

This might be from left field and I haven't given a lot of thought to it but does Cole have hints, maybe very subtle, but nonetheless, hints of a Kimmo Timmonin in his game? Maybe in 2-3 years he morphs into that type of player... not the current Kimmo, who is barely hanging on with the hawks.
- brienstel

I don't know about Kimmo but he's definitely shown flashes of being a legit too 4 defenseman. If he could just figure out how to throw his weight around and use his body to be a more physical defenseman he could be very very good for us.

Wait, so you're against signing a top 4 defenseman, but also aren't banking on Letang being a top 4 mainstay and don't even want him there in the first place? So next year you want a top 4 compromised of Maatta, Pouliot, Dumoulin, Cole, and Lovejoy? I can't talk to you anymore. You're clearly not rational.
- Victoro311

Maatta, Pouliot, Dumoulin, Harrington. That's Pittsburgh's ideal top four going forward. I think they are a season behind in development for various reasons; Olli for injuries sake, the rest for poor usage and being stifled by Mark Eaton or Hoff. Those four in particular need to play meaningful NHL minutes and develop into a D core together.
- Johnny Wrath

It's amazing how often I am asked a direct question to which I had already directly answered.

Think of it like this: You go out and buy yourself a Rolex. It's a really fine and expensive piece; you don't want to scratch it up and so it's kept in a box most of the time so it's not spoiled. How much over the years are you really enjoying the thing? Are you getting everything you should have from owning it? Or are you cheating yourself by wearing some intermediary? And to reframe this in a hockey setting - given the Penguins' recent haul - which of the situations would cause you to feel more regret if the worst of outcomes became true?

On all the Sutter return stuff...

Winnik fetched a 2nd and a 4th at the deadline. Sutter should get you something like a pair or 2's or a 2 and a 3. Perhaps could even get a 1 from a desperate team.

I like the idea from whomever posted earlier that you keep Sutter into next season (unless blown away this off season), see how Oscar looks. If he's showing that he's a capable 3LC option, you could entertain moving Sutter at the deadline to recoup some assets.
- 87_71_11_29

If there is one thing we have an abundance of, for better or worse, its deadline "veteran playoff leaders who have won that could put a team over the top" that get way overvalued and fetch ridiculous returns.

Its not a sexy case to make but if it happens I'd be please to see us go into the season with these guys and if they continue to under perform get what we can at the deadline.

Dupuis
Kunitz
Sutter
Scuderi

If there is one thing we have an abundance of, for better or worse, its deadline "veteran playoff leaders who have won that could put a team over the top" that get way overvalued and fetch ridiculous returns.

Its not a sexy case to make but if it happens I'd be please to see us go into the season with these guys and if they continue to under perform get what we can at the deadline.

Dupuis
Kunitz
Sutter
Scuderi
- brienstel

The top 3, could get "something" at the deadline. Dupuis and Kunitz a bit of an *** if they stay healthy of course.

Scuderi, lets face it... we'd have to probably give a 4th to a team to take him off our hands.

It's amazing how often I am asked a direct question to which I had already directly answered.

Think of it like this: You go out and buy yourself a Rolex. It's a really fine and expensive piece; you don't want to scratch it up and so it's kept in a box most of the time so it's not spoiled. How much over the years are you really enjoying the thing? Are you getting everything you should have from owning it? Or are you cheating yourself by wearing some intermediary? And to reframe this in a hockey setting - given the Penguins' recent haul - which of the situations would cause you to feel more regret if the worst of outcomes became true?
- Johnny Wrath

I understand your rationale in wanting to play the young guys. I just don't see the harm in bringing in a vet on a one year deal to play in the top 4.
BTW, i have a submariner and the thing is nearly indestructible.

If there is one thing we have an abundance of, for better or worse, its deadline "veteran playoff leaders who have won that could put a team over the top" that get way overvalued and fetch ridiculous returns.

Its not a sexy case to make but if it happens I'd be please to see us go into the season with these guys and if they continue to under perform get what we can at the deadline.

Dupuis
Kunitz
Sutter
Scuderi
- brienstel

It's true that players fetch more at the trade deadline but the Penguins keep falling into the trap of thinking that they're going to make the playoffs and then do something once they get there. This eliminates the possibility that removing some of the pieces that helped the team get there is a good job move for the GM. Look how easy it is to apparently just place Kunitz and Dupuis on the third line and fill in a bunch of blanks with "trade/fa signing".

Whether or not you agree with me about who knows how many other things, I am fed up with how nice the Penguins are. They are nice to the employees that they've fired in that they have declined draft picks were they to be hired. Ray Shero was worth a 3rd round pick and the Penguins threw it away. It's a boorish attempt to look classy. What is this except vanity?

The top 3, could get "something" at the deadline. Dupuis and Kunitz a bit of an *** if they stay healthy of course.

Scuderi, lets face it... we'd have to probably give a 4th to a team to take him off our hands.
- Guile

If its a similar market as this years deadline do Kunitz, Dupuis, and Sutter not bring back 2nds, at least? Maybe more with a 3rd or 4th added in?

Agreed Scuderi is going out for lunch on the Pens dime everyday but maybe a team like Flordia who has room and could use that "veteran winning presence" takes him for the last 2 years and gives us a conditional pic in the 2060 draft.

I understand your rational in wanting to play the young guys. I just don't see the harm in bringing in a vet on a one year deal to play in the top 4.
BTW, i have a submariner and the thing is nearly indestructible.
- jfkst1

I left out the bit about the Rolex being underestimated as something that can actually handle everyday use and shine. Too long-winded.

Whether or not you agree with me about who knows how many other things, I am fed up with how nice the Penguins are. They are nice to the employees that they've fired in that they have declined draft picks were they to be hired. Ray Shero was worth a 3rd round pick and the Penguins threw it away. It's a boorish attempt to look classy. What is this except vanity?
- Johnny Wrath

Agree 100%. If you're entitled to a pick you take it. This is pro sports.

I left out the bit about the Rolex being underestimated as something that can actually handle everyday use and shine. Too long-winded.
- Johnny Wrath

Curious what your opinion is on Despres' potential, Lovejoy's fit, and the trade overall.

It's amazing how often I am asked a direct question to which I had already directly answered.

Think of it like this: You go out and buy yourself a Rolex. It's a really fine and expensive piece; you don't want to scratch it up and so it's kept in a box most of the time so it's not spoiled. How much over the years are you really enjoying the thing? Are you getting everything you should have from owning it? Or are you cheating yourself by wearing some intermediary? And to reframe this in a hockey setting - given the Penguins' recent haul - which of the situations would cause you to feel more regret if the worst of outcomes became true?
- Johnny Wrath

Going forward and right now are different subjects. Playing players in improper rolls and putting them in situations they're not ready for stunts development, not expedites it. Making a second pairing of Dumoulin, Pouliot, and Cole is only going to hurt them. Dumoulin and likely Pouliot need to be sheltered next season, Cole might not be anything more than a bottom pairing guy, and Harrington shouldn't even be in the NHL. Just because you want a top 4 of Maatta, Dumoulin, Pouliot, and Harrington doesn't mean that you can put them all together and will them into existence. They need to be nurtured and grown. Your rolex analogy was bad. When you buy a rolex you have a finished product that you should maximize your time enjoying. Our prospects are far from being finished products.

If its a similar market as this years deadline do Kunitz, Dupuis, and Sutter not bring back 2nds, at least? Maybe more with a 3rd or 4th added in?

Agreed Scuderi is going out for lunch on the Pens dime everyday but maybe a team like Flordia who has room and could use that "veteran winning presence" takes him for the last 2 years and gives us a conditional pic in the 2060 draft.
- brienstel

I would trade Robderi's contract and poor performance for a forward whom has an equally bad contract and poor performance. Forwards are easier to bury in the line up and I don't think can have as negative affect on the ice.

If its a similar market as this years deadline do Kunitz, Dupuis, and Sutter not bring back 2nds, at least? Maybe more with a 3rd or 4th added in?

Agreed Scuderi is going out for lunch on the Pens dime everyday but maybe a team like Flordia who has room and could use that "veteran winning presence" takes him for the last 2 years and gives us a conditional pic in the 2060 draft.
- brienstel

Those three are movable if healthy... and Kunitz playing better than the 2nd half of last season.

Scuderi getting back a pick is utterly hilarious. Maybe a team like Florida would take him and a 5th, instead of a 3rd or 4th.

I would trade Robderi's contract and poor performance for a forward whom has an equally bad contract and poor performance. Forwards are easier to bury in the line up and I don't think can have as negative affect on the ice.
- Johnny Wrath

What ever our current disagreement I completely agree with this. We don't really have a plethora of wing prospects who's development won't be blocked by a Scuderi-like forward.

Curious what your opinion is on Despres' potential, Lovejoy's fit, and the trade overall.
- jfkst1

If Despres would have continued to be a Penguin, he would have continued to play in a poorly designed and obviously not very strictly enforced by the staff system and with Rob Scuderi to boot. His development as a future Penguin would have looked remarkably like the very last time he played as a Penguin.

If Despres continues to be a Duck, he is going to play in a system designed to funnel the puck to the opponent's net and into a chaotic tangle of screens. Whether he can crack their top four ever in his career there I doubt; Lindholm, Wiz, Fowler, and Vatanen are simply better players.

Lovejoy can probably better handle the asinine strategies the Penguins employ; then again, when he was at fault for many goals against in the Rangers' series, I felt as though he was doing the logical thing while those around him were lost and helpless. It's a lateral move in that respect. I think it eliminates the future contract demands of Despres and what his tweener role should be for the Penguins but I suspect that Pittsburgh won't take advantage of either of those elements.

Those three are movable if healthy... and Kunitz playing better than the 2nd half of last season.

Scuderi getting back a pick is utterly hilarious. Maybe a team like Florida would take him and a 5th, instead of a 3rd or 4th.
- Guile

Scuderi also has a limited NTC. I could see him potentially moved if Pens ate half his salary. But it wouldn't be easy to find a fit.

What ever our current disagreement I completely agree with this. We don't really have a plethora of wing prospects who's development won't be blocked by a Scuderi-like forward.
- Victoro311

Good point re: blocking development by just being in the organization.

Scuderi also has a limited NTC. I could see him potentially moved if Pens ate half his salary. But it wouldn't be easy to find a fit.
- jfkst1

Yeah, the 6-8 teams (forget how many) he can go to are almost uncertainly ever going to need or want his service. Only way to move him is to eat part of his salary, and have him waive... both sound very unlikely with how the Pens normally operate.

If Despres would have continued to be a Penguin, he would have continued to play in a poorly designed and obviously not very strictly enforced by the staff system and with Rob Scuderi to boot. His development as a future Penguin would have looked remarkably like the very last time he played as a Penguin.

If Despres continues to be a Duck, he is going to play in a system designed to funnel the puck to the opponent's net and into a chaotic tangle of screens. Whether he can crack their top four ever in his career there I doubt; Lindholm, Wiz, Fowler, and Vatanen are simply better players.

Lovejoy can probably better handle the asinine strategies the Penguins employ; then again, when he was at fault for many goals against in the Rangers' series, I felt as though he was doing the logical thing while those around him were lost and helpless. It's a lateral move in that respect. I think it eliminates the future contract demands of Despres and what his tweener role should be for the Penguins but I suspect that Pittsburgh won't take advantage of either of those elements.
- Johnny Wrath

Welp, seeing how Despres is currently playing on the second pairing with Fowler and Wiz is currently scratched in his favor, I'd say the chances of him working out as a top 4 for the Ducks is pretty good.

Welp, seeing how Despres is currently playing on the second pairing with Fowler and Wiz is currently scratched in his favor, I'd say the chances of him working out as a top 4 for the Ducks is pretty good.
- Victoro311

If Wiz was healthy I think the reverse would be true.

Having posted about the niceness of the Penguins earlier I also am upset about how nice the Penguins were to Jordan Staal. Not as much as drafting him above Toews, but almost.

Don't want to sign? Edmonton. How would you have liked to have some of the drafting opportunity Edmonton has enjoyed these last few seasons? Instead, the Penguins traded Jordan Staal according to what Jordan Staal's wishes were and are applauded for getting out of it what they did. It's a disgrace.

If Wiz was healthy I think the reverse would be true.

Having posted about the niceness of the Penguins earlier I also am upset about how nice the Penguins were to Jordan Staal. Not as much as drafting him above Toews, but almost.

Don't want to sign? Edmonton. How would you have liked to have some of the drafting opportunity Edmonton has enjoyed these last few seasons? Instead, the Penguins traded Jordan Staal according to what Jordan Staal's wishes were and are applauded for getting out of it what they did. It's a disgrace.
- Johnny Wrath

I've not heard anything about another team topping Carolina's offer for Staal.

If Wiz was healthy I think the reverse would be true.

Having posted about the niceness of the Penguins earlier I also am upset about how nice the Penguins were to Jordan Staal. Not as much as drafting him above Toews, but almost.

Don't want to sign? Edmonton. How would you have liked to have some of the drafting opportunity Edmonton has enjoyed these last few seasons? Instead, the Penguins traded Jordan Staal according to what Jordan Staal's wishes were and are applauded for getting out of it what they did. It's a disgrace.
- Johnny Wrath

Shero got a fair return for Jordan Staal. Granted, that was probably enhanced by trading with an idiot like Rutherford. However, only teams that could extend him were interested as he stated he wanted to play with his brothers. That left only CAR and NYR as options. I can't criticize Shero for that one.

If Wiz was healthy I think the reverse would be true.

Having posted about the niceness of the Penguins earlier I also am upset about how nice the Penguins were to Jordan Staal. Not as much as drafting him above Toews, but almost.

Don't want to sign? Edmonton. How would you have liked to have some of the drafting opportunity Edmonton has enjoyed these last few seasons? Instead, the Penguins traded Jordan Staal according to what Jordan Staal's wishes were and are applauded for getting out of it what they did. It's a disgrace.
- Johnny Wrath

I don't know, Wiz has seen a drop. Columbus soured on him to the point of healthy scratches. His only real function anymore is as a PP quarterback and the ducks already have Vatenen. I think Despres brings more to the table for them.

And what were we gonna do about Staal? Who was going to trade for him besides Carolina? It was common knowledge he was signing with Carolina when he became a FA, so it was a miracle we were even able to get a return for him at all. We couldn't send him to Edmonton even if it was just to spite him because Edmonton wouldn't have given up assets for a pending UFA that they knew beyond a shadow of a doubt was bolting to Carolina. Our options was keep him and let him walk for nothing, or trade him to Carolina for whatever we could have gotten.

Yeah, the 6-8 teams (forget how many) he can go to are almost uncertainly ever going to need or want his service. Only way to move him is to eat part of his salary, and have him waive... both sound very unlikely with how the Pens normally operate.
- Guile

His NTC specifics aren't disclosed. However, usually it's up to 12 teams on his NTC list updated every July. I really can't see Scuderi having an extensive NTC list that only allows 8-12 teams, but perhaps he does.