Sutter is a good deal younger than both to begin with. If people are looking for a long term player, they'd be more inclined to take a 26 year old than a 30 year old. Second of all, perception. I think (and I hope its true) that Sutter is astronomically misperceived around the league. He's seen as a responsible two way center who also excels at the PK, which may lead people to think he can be used in a shut down roll. Furthermore, he has two 21 goal seasons which the other two do not. He was playing top 6 wing the first time, but that may be forgotten in history, so he's a guy that potted 20 + a few times in a third line roll. While Fehr and Soderberg have comparable point production (Soderberg is actually a deal superior to both), neither have eclipsed the 20 goal mark. Sutter's done it twice. Finally, his last name is Sutter.

The thing about Sutter, is if you watch a season of him play, you realize how bad he is for the Pens, but he's got the stats and perception and pedigree to potentially trick an organization that he's worth way more, so I have absolutely no (frank)ing idea what his trade value is.
- Victoro311

If you look at Sutter's underlying numbers (pts/60, possession/shot suppression, relative GF%) he's not a good player. I really don't know how a GM could be duped by his perception but you are probably right that some of them could be.

If you look at Sutter's underlying numbers (pts/60, possession/shot suppression, relative GF%) he's not a good player. I really don't know how a GM could be duped by his perception but you are probably right that some of them could be.
- jfkst1

Lets say a team wants him on their 2nd or 3rd line, and they have 2 moreso defensive minded wingers who are good at setting up other players rather than massing up goals themself? That would be a good fit for Sutter.

Good points... I would be really upset if we go the retread route. 30 is my absolute cut off age.

Per that TIOPS report (likely pure BS) GMJR wants a bigger, physically dominant, good at puck battles and net front type of winger.

combining that with your first list, I wonder if Pouliot + 2016 1st + Sutter (not intentionally mocking the staal trade but oh well) gets us in the ballpark of any of JvR, Kane, Simmonds, ROR, Lucic, etc.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

God if that brought back JvR I would literally cream my pants and run naked down the street before cleaning myself off.

I don't see Buffalo trading a guy they just traded for, Philly won't move Simmonds to their arch rival unless we're starting at like Malkin or something stupid, and we can't take on RoR's contract even if Colorado wanted to move him.

I think its a bit of an overpayment for Lucic and they already got Krug and Hamilton, but if Babs is looking for a shakeup of epic proportions and this can take JvR, or if the Blues like Pouliot and Sutter and are willing to either give up Oshie + or get back a lesser draft pick, then I'd be incredibly happy.

If you look at Sutter's underlying numbers (pts/60, possession/shot suppression, relative GF%) he's not a good player. I really don't know how a GM could be duped by his perception but you are probably right that some of them could be.
- jfkst1

I think people just like Sutter as a person too. I don't know how it was like in Carolina, but the Pens management has almost gone out of their way to sing Sutter's praises. This love of him may lead to overvaluing.

Lucic?
- drummer829

You caught me sneak that one in there? lol

I don't care what anyone says, Lucic is one of my favorite players in the NHL. I mean I hate him because I like him so much and he doesn't play for us. Down production, aging powerforward, high cap hit...i really don't care. I try to be sensible with any trade targets but that's one where the emotional attachment gets the best of me.

You caught me sneak that one in there? lol

I don't care what anyone says, Lucic is one of my favorite players in the NHL. I mean I hate him because I like him so much and he doesn't play for us. Down production, aging powerforward, high cap hit...i really don't care. I try to be sensible with any trade targets but that's one where the emotional attachment gets the best of me.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

He's low key only 26...

He's low key only 26...
- Victoro311

He goes against everything I've been talking about. I want youth, speed, and upside but he's definitely a buy low candidate right now. His high cap hit should hinder the amount of interested teams if Boston chose to move on from him (which from what I've read, is a serious discussion right now). It's something I'd consider for sure... I doubt you guys agree with me though.

He goes against everything I've been talking about. I want youth, speed, and upside but he's definitely a buy low candidate right now. His high cap hit should hinder the amount of interested teams if Boston chose to move on from him (which from what I've read, is a serious discussion right now). It's something I'd consider for sure... I doubt you guys agree with me though.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

i'd only consider if Boston held on to some cap or if they took Scuderi. He only has one year left so it's not like it's a terrible contract.

if they took Scuderi, I'd be willing to give them something for Lucic.

i'd only consider if Boston held on to some cap or if they took Scuderi. He only has one year left so it's not like it's a terrible contract.

if they took Scuderi, I'd be willing to give them something for Lucic.
- SuperHenderson13

As per the usual, I will offer up Bartley's left nut to get rid of Scuderi!

He goes against everything I've been talking about. I want youth, speed, and upside but he's definitely a buy low candidate right now. His high cap hit should hinder the amount of interested teams if Boston chose to move on from him (which from what I've read, is a serious discussion right now). It's something I'd consider for sure... I doubt you guys agree with me though.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Lucic would bring something to this team that we don't have right now. I think he'd be a great pick up even if he's a banger and not that fast. If he played well with David Krejci, he'd play fantastic with Malkin. Put a speedy, skill guy on Geno's right and that would be a perfect line.

Something to remember: Lucic only has one more year of his 6 mil cap hit. With all the clearing contracts and the potential movement of Sutter and Kunitz we can fit him next year. Then the year after that even more contracts are clearing which leaves wide open the negotiations with him and Perron. Perron thus far hasn't played himself to a substantial raise, and Lucic would be lucky to get the same 6 mil again. He's definitely not a 7 mil a year player.

I just don't want to trade Pouliot, a first, and Sutter for him. Maybe change the first for a second or a third, or find something else besides Pouliot.

God if that brought back JvR I would literally cream my pants and run naked down the street before cleaning myself off.

I don't see Buffalo trading a guy they just traded for, Philly won't move Simmonds to their arch rival unless we're starting at like Malkin or something stupid, and we can't take on RoR's contract even if Colorado wanted to move him.

I think its a bit of an overpayment for Lucic and they already got Krug and Hamilton, but if Babs is looking for a shakeup of epic proportions and this can take JvR, or if the Blues like Pouliot and Sutter and are willing to either give up Oshie + or get back a lesser draft pick, then I'd be incredibly happy.
- Victoro311

Haha, thanks for the visual. I wouldn't be THAT excited. JvR is a great first line winger on a good contract...but that package is essentially what got Staal, in other words its not like we got away with highway robbery.

True on Kane and Simmonds. Pure pipe dreams.

Oshie just doesnt get me all that excited. I don't know, I just think he's overrated. I would hesitate at trading away Pouliot for him (though they dont really need Pouliot anyway)

Lucic, yea I think we'd be talking like Pouliot straight up or Sutter and a pick/prospect. That's where I'd guestimate value at the moment. Obviously we'd need to move around some salary if we did a futures based deal for Lucic. (Would they ever deal their folk hero to the Pens anyway?)

Haha, thanks for the visual. I wouldn't be THAT excited. JvR is a great first line winger on a good contract...but that package is essentially what got Staal, in other words its not like we got away with highway robbery.

True on Kane and Simmonds. Pure pipe dreams.

Oshie just doesnt get me all that excited. I don't know, I just think he's overrated. I would hesitate at trading away Pouliot for him (though they dont really need Pouliot anyway)

Lucic, yea I think we'd be talking like Pouliot straight up or Sutter and a 3rd/prospect. That's where I'd guestimate value at the moment. Obviously we'd need to move around some salary if we did a futures based deal for Lucic. (Would they ever deal their folk hero to the Pens anyway?)
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I would trade a back then Staal who is refusing to walk for a now JVR on his contract straight up any day of the week.

Yeah, giving up much for Lucic is a risky proposition. His cap hit this year is a lot, but its manageable. But he only has one year, so I don't want to give up a ton just to have him walk. Pouliot + for one year of Milan would be an epic fail of a trade. with Soderberg moving on I wonder if they would want Sutter at all, but they're trying to shed cap and after this season Sutter is gonna want upwards of 5 mil and term. I don't know why they'd trade a short term cap dilemma for a long term one. Plus they have Spooner, so I just don't think we're trade partners.

I threw this idea out a while ago.

Use Sutter+BB to get Boedker, Dumo to get Berglund.

STL will need to free space for Taresenko's new contract and their D looks shaky.

Haha, thanks for the visual. I wouldn't be THAT excited. JvR is a great first line winger on a good contract...but that package is essentially what got Staal, in other words its not like we got away with highway robbery.

True on Kane and Simmonds. Pure pipe dreams.

Oshie just doesnt get me all that excited. I don't know, I just think he's overrated. I would hesitate at trading away Pouliot for him (though they dont really need Pouliot anyway)

Lucic, yea I think we'd be talking like Pouliot straight up or Sutter and a pick/prospect. That's where I'd guestimate value at the moment. Obviously we'd need to move around some salary if we did a futures based deal for Lucic. (Would they ever deal their folk hero to the Pens anyway?)
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I wouldn't trade Pouliot for Lucic straight up.

I threw this idea out a while ago.

Use Sutter+BB to get Boedker, Dumo to get Berglund.

STL will need to free space for Taresenko's new contract and their D looks shaky.
- sammy87

But I like Dumoulin...

Seems safe to assume he won't be returning:

http://www.realtor.com/ne...elling-pennsylvania-home/

I wouldn't trade Pouliot for Lucic straight up.
- jfkst1

Yeah, not with one year left on his contract..Boston definitely would be dealing him to improve the cap situation though so they'd likely want "futures". If the classic expendables trade of Sutter + Harrington worked I would be all about it lol.

Seems safe to assume he won't be returning:

http://www.realtor.com/ne...elling-pennsylvania-home/
- jfkst1

I'm almost bummed. A part of me thought that, after the terribly unlucky year and still getting paid buyout money, we could sign him to a favorable $3M/year kind of deal and shore up the top 4 D. But no real sweat here. Pretty common assumption he and Martin were goners.

But I like Dumoulin...
- Guile

Gotta pay to play. Dumo has some upside, but he isnt there yet.

I threw this idea out a while ago.

Use Sutter+BB to get Boedker, Dumo to get Berglund.

STL will need to free space for Taresenko's new contract and their D looks shaky.
- sammy87

Think Arizona and St. Louis would go for those?

3rd line shmird line. Find top six help first. I have a feeling Sutters graphs and charts don't mean much if we actually have 4 top six wingers. Oh and resign Downie.

Think Arizona and St. Louis would go for those?
- dbell646

Sutter viewed as a 2C for them, should net a top 6 winger in return. Bennett if they need a body to replace Boedker as a kicker.

Dumo for Berg... that is a tad presumptuous that they want to shed Berg's contract and will do so for a solid D prospect.

I'm almost bummed. A part of me thought that, after the terribly unlucky year and still getting paid buyout money, we could sign him to a favorable $3M/year kind of deal and shore up the top 4 D. But no real sweat here. Pretty common assumption he and Martin were goners.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

i wouldve been willing to give him another 1 or 2 year deal. i think this team still needs another #4 dman but i think his 1 year plan went pretty bad this year so i'd think he'll take a long term deal and long in his last contract.

I'm almost bummed. A part of me thought that, after the terribly unlucky year and still getting paid buyout money, we could sign him to a favorable $3M/year kind of deal and shore up the top 4 D. But no real sweat here. Pretty common assumption he and Martin were goners.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I think there is a 0% chance Ehfhoff would be signing another 1 year contract. This was a prove it year for better or worse. He is going to want a long term contract and I can't blame him.

I don't think Berglund is worth what you would have to give up for him. Good player but I think the Blues would value him highly.

I don't quite get why Malkin hasn't been moved to the wing yet. All this talk about the Pens needing top 6 wingers when they really need another top 6 center. He is one of the worst on faceoffs in the entire league and is always lost in his own zone. It would be much better freeing him up and having a more natural centerman taking that position.

So in my mind they should keep Sutter for the 3rd line and find someone to step into the 2C position. Or you could sign Vermette, Soderberg or Richards and trade Sutter with a prospect or pick for someone who can center Malkin.