Goc was OK. He was a healthy scratch for the last 2 games of the playoffs. Borts aggravated a pre-existing injury late in the year against Chicago so he sat out the rest of the year pretty much.

Borts looked good in before he got hurt. He stuck up for his teammates and was throwing his body around like we needed Cole to do.
- cuethenoise

And cole was actually playing defense like we needed bortuzzo to do.

With how these teams have been throwing around 1st round picks, keep sutter until the deadline. There have been very average players getting 1st or 2nd round picks. Let sundqvist take the 4th line duty and give him some experience. Trade sutter in February and either slide Sund to the 3rd or winnik could slide in there.
- drummer829

Dont mind the approach of selling at the deadline..but a 2016 1st doesn't appeal much when that player likely wouldnt contribute until 2018. And we better be damn sure Sundq or Winnik can handle the 3rd C role.

Injuries wrecked our asset recuperation last season. With a healthy Maatta(and other D), Martin or Ehrhoff could have been moved for a significant return.

With how these teams have been throwing around 1st round picks, keep sutter until the deadline. There have been very average players getting 1st or 2nd round picks. Let sundqvist take the 4th line duty and give him some experience. Trade sutter in February and either slide Sund to the 3rd or winnik could slide in there.
- drummer829

Yeah lots of teams just giving away firsts...

It's February 2016 and the Penguins are 4th/5th in the East. You'd trade your 3rd line center?

With how these teams have been throwing around 1st round picks, keep sutter until the deadline. There have been very average players getting 1st or 2nd round picks. Let sundqvist take the 4th line duty and give him some experience. Trade sutter in February and either slide Sund to the 3rd or winnik could slide in there.
- drummer829

Sutter's trade value shortly before the deadline was not good. Pens are risking him having very low value if he goes on another low scoring streak right before the deadline.

Dont mind the approach of selling at the deadline..but a 2016 1st doesn't appeal much when that player likely wouldnt contribute until 2018. And we better be damn sure Sundq or Winnik can handle the 3rd C role.

Injuries wrecked our asset recuperation last season. With a healthy Maatta(and other D), Martin or Ehrhoff could have been moved for a significant return.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I just can't see how winnik couldn't do better than sutter. I think it would be much harder trying to move sutter and Harrington for a young top 6 forward than for a 1st round pick.

To youmeanddupuis

I agree not wanting to overpay for Berglund but I'd say he more than a slight upgrade over Sutter. Berglund has a higher ppg than Sutter, .48 to .37 and he has more potential. Also Berglund would be more versatile, he could play the wing with Malkin if needed or moved up to 2C if malkin or Crosby go down.
- willi

So what are you willing to give up for that improvement? Keep in mind we still need assets to find a top 6 wing.

And general question, how do people feel about trading away next years 1st in part of a package to get a legit top 6 wing?

Yeah lots of teams just giving away firsts...

It's February 2016 and the Penguins are 4th/5th in the East. You'd trade your 3rd line center?
- Oil_Addict

Like I said, I don't see how someone like winnik or spaling couldn't do better

So what are you willing to give up for that improvement? Keep in mind we still need assets to find a top 6 wing.

And general question, how do people feel about trading away next years 1st in part of a package to get a legit top 6 wing?
- YouMeAndDupuis9

If it's for a younger player who is either locked up long term or still is an RFA then I really don't mind. I do think sutter or Kunitz tagged along with a D prospect (dumo or Harrington) could fetch at least a 2nd round pick.

Why does everyone automatically pencil in Guys like Winnik and Chorney? They are UFA's... Far from a sure thing they are on this roster. And yes Winnik has some experience playing C, but as far as pencilling him in as our permanent 3C I'm not so sure asking a natural winger to play 16-18 minutes of shut down center duty on a "contending" team is a very wise move.

Maybe its just me, but I'd rather pursue Soderberg through FA and get him at 4 mil a year without giving up further assets than trade even more assets (we'll already be trading some for top 6 help) for Berglund at 3.7. I think Sods is the better player and can play spot 2C duty when one of the heads goes down for a while. Not sure Berg can do that.

I'd rather do both than deal with Brandon Sutter for another year.

If it's for a younger player who is either locked up long term or still is an RFA then I really don't mind. I do think sutter or Kunitz tagged along with a D prospect (dumo or Harrington) could fetch at least a 2nd round pick.
- drummer829

So let's play the trading game. This is probably the best package we can assemble without killing another area on the team...what player(s) could we get with this package?

Sutter + Bennett/Jarry/Harrington/Dumoulin + 2016 1st

Maybe its just me, but I'd rather pursue Soderberg through FA and get him at 4 mil a year without giving up further assets than trade even more assets (we'll already be trading some for top 6 help) for Berglund at 3.7. I think Sods is the better player and can play spot 2C duty when one of the heads goes down for a while. Not sure Berg can do that.

I'd rather do both than deal with Brandon Sutter for another year.
- Victoro311

I'm all for the idea of trading Sutter and adding a 3rd C via FA.

But whats confounding to me is that some team may be willing to give up a good asset for Sutter when they could just get Soderberg or Fehr themselves in FA. Are NHL GMs really that dumb?

Maybe its just me, but I'd rather pursue Soderberg through FA and get him at 4 mil a year without giving up further assets than trade even more assets (we'll already be trading some for top 6 help) for Berglund at 3.7. I think Sods is the better player and can play spot 2C duty when one of the heads goes down for a while. Not sure Berg can do that.

I'd rather do both than deal with Brandon Sutter for another year.
- Victoro311

Also with teams being able to speak with players before FA begins, the pens could see where they stand with guys like Fehr and Soderberg before free agency. If they feel like they have a good shot at a 3rd C then they could start shopping sutter at the draft. It's still a little risky, but Sutter is the best trade piece we have

So what are you willing to give up for that improvement? Keep in mind we still need assets to find a top 6 wing.

And general question, how do people feel about trading away next years 1st in part of a package to get a legit top 6 wing?
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Highly HIGHLY highly depends on who that winger is. If its a young guy who's proven with term, then absolutely. I'm talking ballpark range of JVR, Evander Kane, Wayne Simons, T.J. Oshie, perhaps Jordan Eberle, etc... I know none of those guys are realistic targets, but I'm just giving a general idea.

If its for an older guy with name recognition who was really good once upon a time, then (frank) no. I'm talking here about the Sharps, Iginlas, Moulsons, and Vaneks. We can't expend further future assets to age this team further.

The issue is that we don't have the other assets necessary to acquire the first category of player, while we probably do for the second category, and JR strikes me as the dingus who will think to himself, "Well I gotta do something! Chicago called me about Bickel/Sharp, it'll only take a first, and we don't use firsts anyways, so CUP TIME!!!!"

I'm all for the idea of trading Sutter and adding a 3rd C via FA.

But whats confounding to me is that some team may be willing to give up a good asset for Sutter when they could just get Soderberg or Fehr themselves in FA. Are NHL GMs really that dumb?
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Sutter for less, and avoiding what will likely become a bidding war for those two... also teams have their own systems and preferences, Soderberg and or Fehr don't automatically fit with any team, ours included.

Maybe its just me, but I'd rather pursue Soderberg through FA and get him at 4 mil a year without giving up further assets than trade even more assets (we'll already be trading some for top 6 help) for Berglund at 3.7. I think Sods is the better player and can play spot 2C duty when one of the heads goes down for a while. Not sure Berg can do that.

I'd rather do both than deal with Brandon Sutter for another year.
- Victoro311

I think it is likely someone pays Soderberg to play 2C. Which means he will likely be priced out of Pittsburgh's range.

So let's play the trading game. This is probably the best package we can assemble without killing another area on the team...what player(s) could we get with this package?

Sutter + Bennett/Jarry/Harrington/Dumoulin + 2016 1st
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I'm not interested in trading our 2016 1st... I know we have numerous holes to fill, but the reason we have these holes to fill is by continually trading future assests such as top draft picks and prospects. I feel the next 2-3 years we need to end the win now BS and just plug the holes with cheaper, short term FA's and the Rust's and Wilson's of the world hopefully Crosby and Malkin can will us into the playoffs each year as we rebuild the farm with quality drafting and by 2018-19 we have a quality supporting cast with young players on ELC's that we DRAFTED AND DEVELOPED. What a knoble idea.

So what are you willing to give up for that improvement? Keep in mind we still need assets to find a top 6 wing.

And general question, how do people feel about trading away next years 1st in part of a package to get a legit top 6 wing?
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I'd be willing to move Sutter for what ever picks we can get for him then package a pick(s) + Harrington for Berglund. As far as needing a top 6F maybe Berglund becomes that guy then we go after Fehr or Soderberg. Of leave Berglund as 3C and try and get Kostitsyn to a 1 year deal or Semin if he's bought out.

Highly HIGHLY highly depends on who that winger is. If its a young guy who's proven with term, then absolutely. I'm talking ballpark range of JVR, Evander Kane, Wayne Simons, T.J. Oshie, perhaps Jordan Eberle, etc... I know none of those guys are realistic targets, but I'm just giving a general idea.

If its for an older guy with name recognition who was really good once upon a time, then (frank) no. I'm talking here about the Sharps, Iginlas, Moulsons, and Vaneks. We can't expend further future assets to age this team further.

The issue is that we don't have the other assets necessary to acquire the first category of player, while we probably do for the second category, and JR strikes me as the dingus who will think to himself, "Well I gotta do something! Chicago called me about Bickel/Sharp, it'll only take a first, and we don't use firsts anyways, so CUP TIME!!!!"
- Victoro311

I think oshie is now extremely possible. With tarasenko, Schwartz, and their other 2 good forward prospects, they could move him easily for the right deal. I do think it'd cost quite a bit though

I'm all for the idea of trading Sutter and adding a 3rd C via FA.

But whats confounding to me is that some team may be willing to give up a good asset for Sutter when they could just get Soderberg or Fehr themselves in FA. Are NHL GMs really that dumb?
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Sutter is a good deal younger than both to begin with. If people are looking for a long term player, they'd be more inclined to take a 26 year old than a 30 year old. Second of all, perception. I think (and I hope its true) that Sutter is astronomically misperceived around the league. He's seen as a responsible two way center who also excels at the PK, which may lead people to think he can be used in a shut down roll. Furthermore, he has two 21 goal seasons which the other two do not. He was playing top 6 wing the first time, but that may be forgotten in history, so he's a guy that potted 20 + a few times in a third line roll. While Fehr and Soderberg have comparable point production (Soderberg is actually a deal superior to both), neither have eclipsed the 20 goal mark. Sutter's done it twice. Finally, his last name is Sutter.

The thing about Sutter, is if you watch a season of him play, you realize how bad he is for the Pens, but he's got the stats and perception and pedigree to potentially trick an organization that he's worth way more, so I have absolutely no (frank)ing idea what his trade value is.

I think oshie is now extremely possible. With tarasenko, Schwartz, and their other 2 good forward prospects, they could move him easily for the right deal. I do think it'd cost quite a bit though
- drummer829

I don't know how I feel about Oshie. I will always love him for his heroics in Sochi, but his soft play at even strength concerns me. Maybe he's just not a good fit with the rough and tough Backes and he'd find a better home with the more finesse oriented two headed monster? I don't think we could land him anyways, so kind of irrelevant...

Highly HIGHLY highly depends on who that winger is. If its a young guy who's proven with term, then absolutely. I'm talking ballpark range of JVR, Evander Kane, Wayne Simons, T.J. Oshie, perhaps Jordan Eberle, etc... I know none of those guys are realistic targets, but I'm just giving a general idea.

If its for an older guy with name recognition who was really good once upon a time, then (frank) no. I'm talking here about the Sharps, Iginlas, Moulsons, and Vaneks. We can't expend further future assets to age this team further.

The issue is that we don't have the other assets necessary to acquire the first category of player, while we probably do for the second category, and JR strikes me as the dingus who will think to himself, "Well I gotta do something! Chicago called me about Bickel/Sharp, it'll only take a first, and we don't use firsts anyways, so CUP TIME!!!!"
- Victoro311

Good points... I would be really upset if we go the retread route. 30 is my absolute cut off age.

Per that TIOPS report (likely pure BS) GMJR wants a bigger, physically dominant, good at puck battles and net front type of winger.

combining that with your first list, I wonder if Pouliot + 2016 1st + Sutter (not intentionally mocking the staal trade but oh well) gets us in the ballpark of any of JvR, Kane, Simmonds, ROR, Lucic, etc.

Sutter is a good deal younger than both to begin with. If people are looking for a long term player, they'd be more inclined to take a 26 year old than a 30 year old. Second of all, perception. I think (and I hope its true) that Sutter is astronomically misperceived around the league. He's seen as a responsible two way center who also excels at the PK, which may lead people to think he can be used in a shut down roll. Furthermore, he has two 21 goal seasons which the other two do not. He was playing top 6 wing the first time, but that may be forgotten in history, so he's a guy that potted 20 + a few times in a third line roll. While Fehr and Soderberg have comparable point production (Soderberg is actually a deal superior to both), neither have eclipsed the 20 goal mark. Sutter's done it twice. Finally, his last name is Sutter.

The thing about Sutter, is if you watch a season of him play, you realize how bad he is for the Pens, but he's got the stats and perception and pedigree to potentially trick an organization that he's worth way more, so I have absolutely no (frank)ing idea what his trade value is.
- Victoro311

I wonder how big the analytics will come into play. The basic stats show him as a solid 3rd line player. The advanced stats (or just the ones RW shows us) make him look terrible.

I think it is likely someone pays Soderberg to play 2C. Which means he will likely be priced out of Pittsburgh's range.
- jfkst1

I cannot see Soderberg going for over 4 mil. We can afford Soderberg at 4 mil. We should be pursuing him heavily.

Good points... I would be really upset if we go the retread route. 30 is my absolute cut off age.

Per that TIOPS report (likely pure BS) GMJR wants a bigger, physically dominant, good at puck battles and net front type of winger.

combining that with your first list, I wonder if Pouliot + 2016 1st + Sutter (not intentionally mocking the staal trade but oh well) gets us in the ballpark of any of JvR, Kane, Simmonds, ROR, Lucic, etc.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Lucic?