Outside of Scuds moving and NHL reg Dmen is stupid for the Pens. The only pieces the Pens can move that have value in a return with any type of package are:
DP, Dumo, Harrington, Kuni, Sutter, BB, 71. Anything else just makes too many holes with nothing to replace it with. If you take JR's word for it, Sutter and 71 are staying. That leaves not so many good options on the table. Odds are, they resign Comeau or Winnik, resign Chorney, DP makes a full time spot, Wilson makes a spot, and they fill the holes with FA's that had a good yr 3 seasons ago but fell off the map and hope it works out. Kuni is moved for a 2nd. Realistic roster in Oct:
Hold on now where did Rutherford ever say Sutter wasn't moving? Even if he loves Sutter, there's now way he can honestly believe the Pens can take on his 5 mil extension he'll be looking for, especially when he's made it his mission to fill out the top 6 with legit talent. Rutherford has proven to be stupid, but he can't be that stupid. Sutter moves.
Hold on now where did Rutherford ever say Sutter wasn't moving? Even if he loves Sutter, there's now way he can honestly believe the Pens can take on his 5 mil extension he'll be looking for, especially when he's made it his mission to fill out the top 6 with legit talent. Rutherford has proven to be stupid, but he can't be that stupid. Sutter moves. - Victoro311
Well, he DID think Steve Downie was an NHL player.
Hold on now where did Rutherford ever say Sutter wasn't moving? Even if he loves Sutter, there's now way he can honestly believe the Pens can take on his 5 mil extension he'll be looking for, especially when he's made it his mission to fill out the top 6 with legit talent. Rutherford has proven to be stupid, but he can't be that stupid. Sutter moves. - Victoro311
Several articles lately have said the Pens love Sutter.
Besides, what really is his value with 1 yr left? Probably not much and it gives SUndquest a yr in WB to take the spot next year. A package deal might be possible, but the cap space is a bit tight and with Sutter you're only moving 3.3, a solid top 6 will be 5+....Id love Boedker and if he is available and the Pens offer Sutter +BB/Harrington a good GM will call around and say the Pens are offering X can you do better?
Well, he DID think Steve Downie was an NHL player. - jmatchett383
I think Downie was a good cost-effective signing. I'd take that lunatic back over a lot of other options in the bottom 6. At least he can produce offensively.
Was it the crazy unnecessary penalties, the team demoralizing penalties, or the fact that he never gets the benefit of the doubt? - jmatchett383
The 14 goals and 14 assists and the fact he's a psycho. Honestly I'd have been happier if he got more misconducts for attacking players instead of the refs. That is my only complaint.
Several articles lately have said the Pens love Sutter.
Besides, what really is his value with 1 yr left? Probably not much and it gives SUndquest a yr in WB to take the spot next year. A package deal might be possible, but the cap space is a bit tight and with Sutter you're only moving 3.3, a solid top 6 will be 5+....Id love Boedker and if he is available and the Pens offer Sutter +BB/Harrington a good GM will call around and say the Pens are offering X can you do better? - sammy87
But did he explicitly say he wasn't trading Sutter like he explicitly stated he wasn't trading Crosby or Malkin? Doesn't matter how obviously you're trying to get rid of a player, you want to create the illusion that you love him and would be loathed to part with him to the best of your ability.
We have enough cap flexibility to choose what we want to do with all the clearing contracts. That's not an issue. And there's enough 3Cs on the market that we should be able to pick one up. I'm not saying get rid of Sutter because Sundqvist can do the job. I'm saying get rid of Sutter because he's not a good fit and is replaceable and he's our best tradable asset.
Was it the crazy unnecessary penalties, the team demoralizing penalties, or the fact that he never gets the benefit of the doubt? - jmatchett383
Downie has good mobility and playmaking. He isn't great defensively and is injury prone. Obviously he's uncontrollable and that hurts the team with his penalties. But for <$1.5m/yr, he is cost-effective in the bottom 6 Fs. I'd much rather have him as the "grit and energy" guy than the trash players Pittsburgh has been putting out there (Lapierre, Farnham, Sill, Adams, Glass).
The 14 goals and 14 assists and the fact he's a psycho. Honestly I'd have been happier if he got more misconducts for attacking players instead of the refs. That is my only complaint. - dbell646
Sometimes, refs need attacking.
My problem with Downie was that I never felt his tendency to go bat poop crazy or just take a stupid penalty were offset by his minimal offensive output. If he was a 12/16/28 guy who played with some more restraint, that would be different.
Several articles lately have said the Pens love Sutter.
Besides, what really is his value with 1 yr left? Probably not much and it gives SUndquest a yr in WB to take the spot next year. A package deal might be possible, but the cap space is a bit tight and with Sutter you're only moving 3.3, a solid top 6 will be 5+....Id love Boedker and if he is available and the Pens offer Sutter +BB/Harrington a good GM will call around and say the Pens are offering X can you do better? - sammy87
We must be reading different articles because everywhere I've read is the plan is to trade him for a wing rather than extend him.
Value? He scored 21 and teams value C of W. Even though he's on his last year, we've seen what people trade for even playoff rentals. He probably won't get an equivalent player with term, but we better be able to get something useful. I'd target another team's wing with one year left of similar talent.
Rentals get higher return than guys with 1 year left on their deal.
the value for a playoff team on a rental is that you get him for the playoffs but cap wise he counts a fraction of entire cap hit. So its a way to squeeze more talent onto a team in a cap world.
I think the Penguins cam trade Maata after this season is at least 2 of Harrington/Dumolin/Pouliot show they can be reliable top-4 NHL defensemen. Until then, he's still your best proven young defenseman. - jmatchett383
I don't think Dumo and Harrington will be fast tracked to top 6 minutes. Harrington probably doesn't even have a spot to compete for with 6 D needing waivers plus Pouliot. But those guys are maybe second pairing guys that get overrated here, they don't have Maatta's upside.
Our "defensive depth" we always like to brag about is gone. We let Orpik and Nisk walk (I agree with the move, to long, too much $$), traded DesPres for a #5/6 D, are going to let Martin and Ehrhoff (once again I agree with, will want ot much money and term for their ages)... that leaves us with;
8 NHL Dmen, only 2 of which are truely top 4 dmen at this time, and the rest are 5-7 guys. Of course Pouliot has top 4 potential, and possibly Doumalin/Harrington. but they are not there yet. And we have nothing more in the pipe line due to the poor drafting and trading of picks. This is it. Our D depth is gone, its time for the young guns to sink or swim, and if they sink...we are in trouble. I know we have holes up front, but our D isn't a quite a strength any more either. My opinion, I'm not trading Letang or Mattaa unless a young, established top 3 dman is coming back. I see what your saying about the 1st...but top 3 D are harder to come by then you may think. A first is not getting the Pens a Josi or Brodin, which is what we would need moving one of those guys. - Willaged
I completely agree. The problem with the Pens is we have holes and lack the assets to fill them. So any deal that is realistic will mean filling a hole but creating a new one. The 1st could be used to get another D though, which was what I'm thinking.
Its been hashed over and over and over and we all know the GM and ownership are not going to trade Malkin but frankly, the only way the Pens can get back into the Cup contending picture in the near future is to let one of the big core guys go.
I would rather try to win with YOUTH than sign has beens that still SUCK. You need younger players not older ones. Give me a break. I think all of you are delusional.
That is too much going to Phoenix. You don't trade Maatta in that at all. - Oneonta Penguin
I think its fair value.
As a pens fan we overvalue Maatta (not saying he's not very good) but to get a first and a top 3 winger for a saddlebag contract in sutter (who can put 20 goals up mind you) and a very promising but very damaged (2 major should reconstruction and a bout with cancer) young D man is fair for both clubs.
I would rather try to win with YOUTH than sign has beens that still SUCK. You need younger players not older ones. Give me a break. I think all of you are delusional. - holeinone
About what precisely? That Harrington still needs a year? That Dumoulin probably will need at least this year in a sheltered, bottom pairing roll to figure out what we have in him before we jump to the conclusion that he's top 4? That Pouliot is still not good enough in his own zone to carry the second pairing without a competent top 4 partner? That there's a solid chance that neither Kapanen or Bennett can fill the 2RW position next season since Kap is still raw and needs to add weight and Bennett, well who knows, and as a hopefully competent organization we need to prepare for that possibility?
We don't have the organizational youth to have the luxury of not looking at veteran contingency plans. Having faith with our d core as it stands is delusional as well as penciling Kapanen before training camp even starts. There aren't any obvious good options out there. All we can do is hope that management has a trick up their sleeve, but that trick isn't throwing all of our young guys to the wolves and further stunting their all ready pedestrian development.
Location: the lone wolf of hockeybuzz Joined: 07.31.2009
May 26 @ 2:34 PM ET
I think its fair value.
As a pens fan we overvalue Maatta (not saying he's not very good) but to get a first and a top 3 winger for a saddlebag contract in sutter (who can put 20 goals up mind you) and a very promising but very damaged (2 major should reconstruction and a bout with cancer) young D man is fair for both clubs. - brienstel
When you put it that way, the Pens ought to overvalue Maatta. If that's his trade value, he's worth more to you on the roster than on the block.
That said, I think teams would be willing to look past his issues if he were shopped.
As a pens fan we overvalue Maatta (not saying he's not very good) but to get a first and a top 3 winger for a saddlebag contract in sutter (who can put 20 goals up mind you) and a very promising but very damaged (2 major should reconstruction and a bout with cancer) young D man is fair for both clubs. - brienstel
Where do you get that Boedker is a top line player? If he were that good he'd be producing regardless of who his teammates are in ARI. He's also 5 years older than Maatta.
Where do you get that Boedker is a top line player? If he were that good he'd be producing regardless of who his teammates are in ARI. He's also 5 years older than Maatta. - jfkst1
He is producing in AZ.
Just projecting his stats and making some assumptions.
In his past 3 years his PPG are:
.54
.62
.62
With Sid or Malkin I guessed he gets another 15 points in an 82 game season pushing him up to .79 or 65 pts.
Those are top line numbers in my opinion, especially when you consider how low the point totals were for the top guys this year.
