I really don't get the overvaluing of Boedker. Would he help the Pens... for sure. But lets not act like he is a star. He has never in his career had a 20 goal season and that is with playing top 6 ice time. I'm not sure I'd be happy with Sutter for Boedker straight up, Sutter would be the better player in the Pens top 6 (not to mention he is far more durable).

Now, if we are talking about a deal starting with Bennett for Boedker I am interested.
- MacPatty

I view it the same. He gets a lot of playing time in favorable situations and hasn't produced impressively at all. Most the value I see with Boedker is that he is still young and has high end talent so I'd trade for him for Sutter straight up, but I'm not all that interested in Pens overpaying for another overrated ARI player like other teams have fallen victim to.

Our "defensive depth" we always like to brag about is gone. We let Orpik and Nisk walk (I agree with the move, to long, too much $$), traded DesPres for a #5/6 D, are going to let Martin and Ehrhoff (once again I agree with, will want ot much money and term for their ages)... that leaves us with;

Letang
Mattaa
Pouliot
Lovejoy
Scuderi
Cole
Doumalin
Harrington

8 NHL Dmen, only 2 of which are truely top 4 dmen at this time, and the rest are 5-7 guys. Of course Pouliot has top 4 potential, and possibly Doumalin/Harrington. but they are not there yet. And we have nothing more in the pipe line due to the poor drafting and trading of picks. This is it. Our D depth is gone, its time for the young guns to sink or swim, and if they sink...we are in trouble. I know we have holes up front, but our D isn't a quite a strength any more either. My opinion, I'm not trading Letang or Mattaa unless a young, established top 3 dman is coming back. I see what your saying about the 1st...but top 3 D are harder to come by then you may think. A first is not getting the Pens a Josi or Brodin, which is what we would need moving one of those guys.
- Willaged

Resign Chorney and that makes 9... Also you have 3 top 4 Dmen. Lovejoy is a #4 Dman, no matter how much you want to pretend hes not from his being forced into top 2 role minutes.
Cole and Pouliot could be ready to step up.

So, I see 3 top 4, and 2 potential top 4 Dmen. Seems like you are just a negative Nancy.

Resign Chorney and that makes 9... Also you have 3 top 4 Dmen. Lovejoy is a #4 Dman, no matter how much you want to pretend hes not from his being forced into top 2 role minutes.
Cole and Pouliot could be ready to step up.

So, I see 3 top 4, and 2 potential top 4 Dmen. Seems like you are just a negative Nancy.
- Guile

No I just dont wear black and gold glasses. Our D is too much of a question mark to be trading a guy like Mattaa. Are you game for trading mattaa and not getting another D in return?

Resign Chorney and that makes 9... Also you have 3 top 4 Dmen. Lovejoy is a #4 Dman, no matter how much you want to pretend hes not from his being forced into top 2 role minutes.
Cole and Pouliot could be ready to step up.

So, I see 3 top 4, and 2 potential top 4 Dmen. Seems like you are just a negative Nancy.
- Guile

Maata and Letang are you top-2 defensemen. After that, it's a lot of young, talented but unproven (at the NHL level) prospects (Harrington/Dumolin/Pouliot), then Cole and Lovejoy rounding out your 1-7. Trading Maata for anything other than a legit top-line winger would be a mistake.

Maata and Letang are you top-2 defensemen. After that, it's a lot of young, talented but unproven (at the NHL level) prospects (Harrington/Dumolin/Pouliot), then Cole and Lovejoy rounding out your 1-7. Trading Maata for anything other than a legit top-line winger would be a mistake.
- jmatchett383

And even then, you have to replace Mattaa on the back end. Is anyone comfortable with Lovejoy as our #2?????

No I just dont wear black and gold glasses. Our D is too much of a question mark to be trading a guy like Mattaa. Are you game for trading mattaa and not getting another D in return?
- Willaged

Yeah, realistically the Pens have 2 top 4 defencemen and 6-7 bottom pairing guys so Maata is damn close to inexpendable.

Resign Chorney and that makes 9... Also you have 3 top 4 Dmen. Lovejoy is a #4 Dman, no matter how much you want to pretend hes not from his being forced into top 2 role minutes.
Cole and Pouliot could be ready to step up.

So, I see 3 top 4, and 2 potential top 4 Dmen. Seems like you are just a negative Nancy.
- Guile

No he's being a realist. Lovejoy isn't a top 4. He happened to have ok chemistry with Fowler in Anaheim who was able to elevate his game, but even that didn't last. He was underperforming very much this season and the Ducks were happy to upgrade from him. You're right. Pouliot and Cole could be ready to step up, but its not safe to bet on "mights". If that were the case we could just pencil in Bennett as Geno's RW and stop freaking out about the top 6.

That I'd like to pounce on.
- Victoro311

I think Your love of American born players who play in canada is blinding you lol. But seriously i love jvr too but maata has to b close to untouchable. The shoulder is kind of scary but he's had a lot of time to get right. If he can find his inner lidstrom form he looked like as a rookie. I pray he's a pen 4 life

No he's being a realist. Lovejoy isn't a top 4. He happened to have ok chemistry with Fowler in Anaheim who was able to elevate his game, but even that didn't last. He was underperforming very much this season and the Ducks were happy to upgrade from him. You're right. Pouliot and Cole could be ready to step up, but its not safe to bet on "mights". If that were the case we could just pencil in Bennett as Geno's RW and stop freaking out about the top 6.
- Victoro311

Using Bennett to support your claim of mights is really dumb... no one is betting on him anymore.

Yeah, realistically the Pens have 2 top 4 defencemen and 6-7 bottom pairing guys so Maata is damn close to inexpendable.
- MacPatty

Excatly. And dont get me wrong, I dont think our D is terrible...we just dont have the depth to be shipping our top end guys out like we have have last season and the season prioir. We have 8 guys under team control who can play NHL minutes. 2 of them are top 4 on GOOD NHL teams. Sure you can call Lovejoy top 4...but he not on a top 10 team..Some combination of Pouliot/ Doumalin/Lovejoy/Cole will be our second pairing.. which I'm OK with, let the young guys play.... but what I'm saying is you trade a Letang or Mattaa, now one of those guy has to be on the top pairing.. and you now have less options for the second pairing. I.E- Little depth.

I think Your love of American born players who play in canada is blinding you lol. But seriously i love jvr too but maata has to b close to untouchable. The shoulder is kind of scary but he's had a lot of time to get right. If he can find his inner lidstrom form he looked like as a rookie. I pray he's a pen 4 life
- Jordy8

JVR is as bad defensively as Kessel or Yakupov. Yet for some reason everyone overlooks this fact. Maybe because of his size. Maatta is much younger and unless they don't think his shoulder will heal, I wouldn't trade Maatta straight up for JVR.

Using Bennett to support your claim of mights is really dumb... no one is betting on him anymore.
- Guile

Penguins don't have a single reliable and proven top 4 dman. Every single option has question marks. Dismissing that isn't being "negative." It's a reasonable approach.

His production given his TOI isn't impressive. He reminds me a lot of Yandle and Vermette in that much of their production in ARI was heavily based on playing time. They're in positions to succeed with their new teams and neither really have. Yandle has been OK and Vermette has been a disaster. I could easily see Boedker following suit.
- jfkst1

Agree with this. Sometimes a guy you think will get a stats bump with a new team won't because he's not in the same position. Maybe he gets top PP time on a bad team.

Although taking a quick look, Boedker only averages around 17min TOI and 2 min PP time. In his one big year, he somehow managed 16 PP points on a second unit. And 12 of his 28 last year were on the PP in about 3 min.

I'm not sure what the fascination is with him either. Seems like a decent secondary scoring guy, but it wouldn't make sense for the Coyotes to trade him unless they got an overpayment, which isn't what we should be doing.

Penguins don't have a single reliable and proven top 4 dman. Every single option has question marks. Dismissing that isn't being "negative." It's a reasonable approach.
- jfkst1

Thank you. And you are correct. My assessment of our D didn't even include Letang and Mattaa's durability question marks. Was just to avoid the Shat storm those remakrs usually stir up!

I think Your love of American born players who play in canada is blinding you lol. But seriously i love jvr too but maata has to b close to untouchable. The shoulder is kind of scary but he's had a lot of time to get right. If he can find his inner lidstrom form he looked like as a rookie. I pray he's a pen 4 life
- Jordy8

I just want to free them all!

But yeah, if we still had Despres then maybe but if I take my JVR blinders off for two seconds then yeah Maatta is most definitely untouchable.

Using Bennett to support your claim of mights is really dumb... no one is betting on him anymore.
- Guile

No it's utilizing hyperbole to make a point.

Excatly. And dont get me wrong, I dont think our D is terrible...we just dont have the depth to be shipping our top end guys out like we have have last season and the season prioir. We have 8 guys under team control who can play NHL minutes. 2 of them are top 4 on GOOD NHL teams. Sure you can call Lovejoy top 4...but he not on a top 10 team..Some combination of Pouliot/ Doumalin/Lovejoy/Cole will be our second pairing.. which I'm OK with, let the young guys play.... but what I'm saying is you trade a Letang or Mattaa, now one of those guy has to be on the top pairing.. and you now have less options for the second pairing. I.E- Little depth.
- Willaged

Right. If our current defense is to be any good, we need healthy years from Letang and Maatta, Pouliot to take a huge step forward, and one of Cole or Lovejoy to be a solidifying presence for his rookie mistakes. That's alot to ask and taking away a top guy like Maatta from the equation does more damage than almost any one wing can replace. Top 4 D is more important than top 6 wings.

Using Bennett to support your claim of mights is really dumb... no one is betting on him anymore.
- Guile

Exactly right. He has shown zero thus far to make one believe he is a top six solution. I don't prescribe to the excuses others like to use when talking about BB.

Right. If our current defense is to be any good, we need healthy years from Letang and Maatta, Pouliot to take a huge step forward, and one of Cole or Lovejoy to be a solidifying presence for his rookie mistakes. That's alot to ask and taking away a top guy like Maatta from the equation does more damage than almost any one wing can replace. Top 4 D is more important than top 6 wings.
- Tojo.

Outside of Scuds moving and NHL reg Dmen is stupid for the Pens. The only pieces the Pens can move that have value in a return with any type of package are:

DP, Dumo, Harrington, Kuni, Sutter, BB, 71. Anything else just makes too many holes with nothing to replace it with. If you take JR's word for it, Sutter and 71 are staying. That leaves not so many good options on the table. Odds are, they resign Comeau or Winnik, resign Chorney, DP makes a full time spot, Wilson makes a spot, and they fill the holes with FA's that had a good yr 3 seasons ago but fell off the map and hope it works out. Kuni is moved for a 2nd. Realistic roster in Oct:

Perron-87-PH
FA-71-BB
Dupes-Sutter-Winnik
Farnham-Lap-WB Scrub

Exactly right. He has shown zero thus far to make one believe he is a top six solution. I don't prescribe to the excuses others like to use when talking about BB.
- Oneonta Penguin

I believe he still has potential. Some excuses are legit. I couldn't play hockey too well while wearing 2 knee braces. Now, I still am not penciling him into Geno's wing until he shows he has overcome those injuries. But I definitely dont trade him away unless its a package deal for a bona fide top 6 wing. We dont have a lot of cheap, upside forwards.

Outside of Scuds moving and NHL reg Dmen is stupid for the Pens. The only pieces the Pens can move that have value in a return with any type of package are:

DP, Dumo, Harrington, Kuni, Sutter, BB, 71. Anything else just makes too many holes with nothing to replace it with. If you take JR's word for it, Sutter and 71 are staying. That leaves not so many good options on the table. Odds are, they resign Comeau or Winnik, resign Chorney, DP makes a full time spot, Wilson makes a spot, and they fill the holes with FA's that had a good yr 3 seasons ago but fell off the map and hope it works out. Kuni is moved for a 2nd. Realistic roster in Oct:

Perron-87-PH
FA-71-BB
Dupes-Sutter-Winnik
Farnham-Lap-WB Scrub
- sammy87

That is a really tough 4th line. I'll bet they can block a lot of shots with their grit.

Outside of Scuds moving and NHL reg Dmen is stupid for the Pens. The only pieces the Pens can move that have value in a return with any type of package are:

DP, Dumo, Harrington, Kuni, Sutter, BB, 71. Anything else just makes too many holes with nothing to replace it with. If you take JR's word for it, Sutter and 71 are staying. That leaves not so many good options on the table. Odds are, they resign Comeau or Winnik, resign Chorney, DP makes a full time spot, Wilson makes a spot, and they fill the holes with FA's that had a good yr 3 seasons ago but fell off the map and hope it works out. Kuni is moved for a 2nd. Realistic roster in Oct:

Perron-87-PH
FA-71-BB
Dupes-Sutter-Winnik
Farnham-Lap-WB Scrub
- sammy87

Your positivity is contagious.

That is a really tough 4th line. I'll bet they can block a lot of shots with their grit.
- jfkst1

Im not exactly thrilled about it, but the realist in me says something very similar will be on the ice in October.

Im not exactly thrilled about it, but the realist in me says something very similar will be on the ice in October.
- sammy87

This one you might be correct about. Rutherford certainly has the flexibility to ice an actual 4th line that can play. So if he chooses not to, it is 100% on him.

And even then, you have to replace Mattaa on the back end. Is anyone comfortable with Lovejoy as our #2?????
- Willaged

I think the Penguins cam trade Maata after this season is at least 2 of Harrington/Dumolin/Pouliot show they can be reliable top-4 NHL defensemen. Until then, he's still your best proven young defenseman.