Forgot Stamkos was a C.....Never mind!
- sammy87

He can play wing equally effective. It doesn't change the fact that his next contract is going to be bigger than Malkin's or Crosby's and would make building depth even harder.

He wanted to leave and the Lightning accommodated him because he was a veteran who gained that right I guess. The Lightning did not want him to leave and had no choice. Not sure what this has to do about what I wrote about Stamkos.
- stammerman

I'm just pointing out that Marty fit the description of what you described in the paragraph and after trading him the perception is that the Lightning are much better off.

He can play wing equally effective. It doesn't change the fact that his next contract is going to be bigger than Malkin's or Crosby's and would make building depth even harder.
- jfkst1

Yeah he will, it was a joke throwing it out there. But as pointed out, ANA, CHI, CAPS, teams that have 2 super stars, are playing together. The 2 headed monster is a myth that Bob Errey created. Fact is they are terrible together and the PP is horrendous. Having your 2 top guys on separate lines means you need plugs or guys on ELC's to fill out holes. So you aren't going to get top performance out of either of them. Counterproductive.

I'm just pointing out that Marty fit the description of what you described in the paragraph and after trading him the perception is that the Lightning are much better off.
- Johnny Wrath

MSL was 38 when he was traded. Stamkos will be 26 next year.

Forgot Stamkos was a C.....Never mind!
- sammy87

I don't understand the logic behind "Oh, okay, it's a non-starter because he's listed as a C." He's listed as a RW. The description that appears next to Stamkos in the programme won't change his ability to score from the left side of the ice.

As far as depth C goes, the real drop off for the Red Wings was when the Lightning signed Filppula. That was the beginning of the Lightning trending up. The Penguins could get away with having a completely overloaded first line if they had a #2C like VF. Instead the Penguins have a bunch of misfits and three competent top-six forwards. If the Cap is going to limit the Penguins from having an ideal complement of players for their two centers and that model is clearly not working, then the thing to do is to fully support one of those centers and replace the other.

Not much will change in Toronto Jesus could come down from the heavens and he could not perform miracles with those misfits. You heard it here first.

Yeah he will, it was a joke throwing it out there. But as pointed out, ANA, CHI, CAPS, teams that have 2 super stars, are playing together. The 2 headed monster is a myth that Bob Errey created. Fact is they are terrible together and the PP is horrendous. Having your 2 top guys on separate lines means you need plugs or guys on ELC's to fill out holes. So you aren't going to get top performance out of either of them. Counterproductive.
- sammy87

I don't understand your point. WSH hasn't won a thing so having Backstrom and Ovie together has accomplished nothing for them. ANA has been disappointing until other fowards filled out their lineup. Kane and Toews don't usually play together in CHI and they have other high end forwards as well as quality depth forwards. Having one line of Crosby and Stamkos wouldn't be any better and probably worse than having two superstar centers.

MSL was 38 when he was traded. Stamkos will be 26 next year.
- jfkst1

The premise is that a player is a 40+ goal scorer. That they are the face of the franchise. That they are great in the locker room. Not that they are a certain age. It does add value to Stamkos that he's literally in the prime of his career, but Marty St. Louis in 2015 plays just as he did in 2007.

The premise is that a player is a 40+ goal scorer. That they are the face of the franchise. That they are great in the locker room. Not that they are a certain age. It does add value to Stamkos that he's literally in the prime of his career, but Marty St. Louis in 2015 plays just as he did in 2007.
- Johnny Wrath

You should ask the Rangers fans what they think of that claim.


Lowest point year since the 2001-02 season. This is including the lockout half season too.

I don't understand your point. WSH hasn't won a thing so having Backstrom and Ovie together has accomplished nothing for them. ANA has been disappointing until other fowards filled out their lineup. Kane and Toews don't usually play together in CHI and they have other high end forwards as well as quality depth forwards. Having one line of Crosby and Stamkos wouldn't be any better and probably worse than having two superstar centers.
- jfkst1

It would change the template to having a much more reliable scoring line and a much more mechanically sound power play. The depth issue doesn't change; it just shifts the scoring pressure to two players on one line from two players on two lines.

If you imagine that there is a hockey Ockham's razor, loading one line is a better solution than the way Pittsburgh is modeled.

The premise is that a player is a 40+ goal scorer. That they are the face of the franchise. That they are great in the locker room. Not that they are a certain age. It does add value to Stamkos that he's literally in the prime of his career, but Marty St. Louis in 2015 plays just as he did in 2007.
- Johnny Wrath

MSL is much worse now than in 2007. He had 102 pts, 5th in the league, in 2007 and 52 pts this year, which was outside the top 50. It's not even close. He's also become a defensive liability.

You should ask the Rangers fans what they think of that claim.


Lowest point year since the 2001-02 season. This is including the lockout half season too.
- Guile

I think their team going to back-to-back Conference finals after acquiring MSL would tend to overshadow what the score sheet says.

I'm not saying that he is producing the way he was when he won the Art Ross; he's no longer on Stamkos' line and he's no longer playing a bunch of weak Southeast Division teams. He hasn't changed his game, though. This makes three Eastern Finals for MSL since 2011. That's my point.

I think their team going to back-to-back Conference finals after acquiring MSL would tend to overshadow what the score sheet says.

I'm not saying that he is producing the way he was when he won the Art Ross; he's no longer on Stamkos' line and he's no longer playing a bunch of weak Southeast Division teams. He hasn't changed his game, though. This makes three Eastern Finals for MSL since 2011. That's my point.
- Johnny Wrath

You just changed your point. Playing as he did in 2007 includes his speed, execution, and point ability.

His style hasn't changed, that is true... but hes not the focal point of the Rangers this year.

You just changed your point. Playing as he did in 2007 includes his speed, execution, and point ability.

His style hasn't changed, that is true... but hes not the focal point of the Rangers this year.
- Guile

The way he plays is intended to indicate style.

I suppose the focal point of the Rangers is supposed to be Rick Nash. Aside from an annoying undersized C, these Rangers remind me in many ways of the Hasek-era Sabres but with much better D. They have three lines of tough SOBs who can do a bit of everyhthing and score just enough to allow their goalie to win games.

The way he plays is intended to indicate style.

I suppose the focal point of the Rangers is supposed to be Rick Nash. Aside from an annoying undersized C, these Rangers remind me in many ways of the Hasek-era Sabres but with much better D. They have three lines of tough SOBs who can do a bit of everyhthing and score just enough to allow their goalie to win games.
- Johnny Wrath

Yep... and in the postseason, Nash is funny to watch.

It would change the template to having a much more reliable scoring line and a much more mechanically sound power play. The depth issue doesn't change; it just shifts the scoring pressure to two players on one line from two players on two lines.

If you imagine that there is a hockey Ockham's razor, loading one line is a better solution than the way Pittsburgh is modeled.
- Johnny Wrath

What team has won a SC in the cap era with one good line of two superstars and limited forward depth elsewhere?

What team has won a SC in the cap era with one good line of two superstars and limited forward depth elsewhere?
- jfkst1

The questioner thinks that they've got me in a pincer with this ridiculous premise that Ovie and Backstrom didn't win the SC this season despite having a more conventional 1C/1W slotting as opposed to the PIT 1C/2C formula. I suspect that the claim would be that I'm inherently wrong in my opinions if I cannot match a team to their imagined SC winner.

Let's suppose the Penguins decide that Malkin and Crosby aren't compatible. They can't run a power play nor play effectively at even strength. The very thought causes Penguins fans to visibly start. Let's suppose that the Penguins can acquire Stamkos somehow; either a trade or a UFA signing. Is Stamkos a better compliment to Crosby for roughly the same cap hit? Theoretically the best North American set-up guy and the most authoritative North American finisher together kind of thing. It's like imagining Malkin and Ovie on a line in the NHL.

If you want to imagine what a team could look like with a super elite playmaker and a super elite right-handed finisher, check out Anaheim. The problem with the Penguins is then a question of depth a center. Centers may be difficult to come by unless the Penguins are talking to the Oilers about their sudden collection of three #1 Cs.
- Johnny Wrath

First off this would never happen. If it did, Pens would be better off with Stamkos if for no other reason than he likes to play on ther other side of the ice on the PP. I would happily move Malkin in a straight up trade for another talent at his level that shot righty. But there are very few players like that and none of them are available. That's why I'd take a flier on Semin, cause there's a chance he could be that.

The premise is that a player is a 40+ goal scorer. That they are the face of the franchise. That they are great in the locker room. Not that they are a certain age. It does add value to Stamkos that he's literally in the prime of his career, but Marty St. Louis in 2015 plays just as he did in 2007.
- Johnny Wrath

Marty wanted to be traded and got traded, Stamkos is an upcoming UFA after next year. So to me their is no comparison, now if Stamkos was demanding a trade ala Marty we have a comparison. But from what we currently know Stamkos supposedly wants to resign with Tampa so come July the Lightning would be smart to do that 8yr 10.5MM like Toews, then worry about Hedman, Johnson, Palat, Kucherov as their contracts come due. If Stamkos is not resigned by the start of next season then the Bolts and us fans have something to ponder.

The questioner thinks that they've got me in a pincer with this ridiculous premise that Ovie and Backstrom didn't win the SC this season despite having a more conventional 1C/1W slotting as opposed to the PIT 1C/2C formula. I suspect that the claim would be that I'm inherently wrong in my opinions if I cannot match a team to their imagined SC winner.
- Johnny Wrath

When you think MSL is the same now as he was in 2007 and one line teams can win a SC, you're putting yourself in the "pincer."

First off this would never happen. If it did, Pens would be better off with Stamkos if for no other reason than he likes to play on ther other side of the ice on the PP. I would happily move Malkin in a straight up trade for another talent at his level that shot righty. But there are very few players like that and none of them are available. That's why I'd take a flier on Semin, cause there's a chance he could be that.
- Tojo.

The room for the Penguins to take fliers on players is exactly 0. Theoretically Perron is the opposite number to play there on the PP. He himself is kind of a flier but one on an inexpensive and short contract.

The Pens 2C model isn't flawed, the execution of it was. Defensemen take longer to develop and it's tough breaking in even 2 at a time. Yet Shero continuously spent all his high picks on defensemen creating a logjam. He compounded the problem by paying top 6 money to Kunitz and Dupuis and top 4 money to Scuderi. If those guys were what they were 3 years ago, and the team had a couple more young forwards, nobody would complain about what Sid and Geno are making. The team just wasted too many assets and cap space on defense prospects and older players in a league where you need twice as many forwards.

All the TV ratings across Canada prove by far the Leafs are Canada's team. The money they generate in merchandise outside of Toronto (rest of Canada) probably dwarfs any other CDN teams revenue. There is no doubt that Toronto is Canada's hockey team - even if it's not yours.
- Cooshie

TV ratings across Canada show that EVERYONE watches the Leafs? Prove it, lets see them. That's total BS and if it has a grain of truth it's only because Canadians are more likely to watch any hockey game and hockey night in canada broadcasts the leafs and shoves it down everyones throats. And merchandise just proves that idiots are more likely to spend money of logos than other people.

The room for the Penguins to take fliers on players is exactly 0. Theoretically Perron is the opposite number to play there on the PP. He himself is kind of a flier but one on an inexpensive and short contract.
- Johnny Wrath

I like Perron and still support that trade, but he's never put up more then 5 PP goals in a season. He'd likely be miscast as a PP sniper. He is the type of guy who puts up strong ES production, but doesn't do well on PP.

I disagree, I think the Pens have put themselves in a position where they will likely have to make a risky move. They need to upgrade the talent base at forward and any move they make opens up another hole elsewhere. Their only area of excess is they probably have one extra bottom pairing defenseman with upside. Anything else they trade away is for something they'd need to replace.

Have I said anything at all that is false??
Leaf fans out stat every other team outside whatever city they are from across Canada 10fold.....as well as merchandise sales outside their city as well. Pretty sure that would make them that countries "team" by any definition of the word. Doesn't mean everyone loves them, just means that collectively, they are the most liked team nation wide....
- Cooshie

Really because there is not one Leaf in the top 10 NHL jerseys sold list, there might be 1 in the top 25 so I think you are talking out your a$$? http://thehockeywriters.c...n-selling-hockey-jerseys/
And really they are the most universally hated team outside of the fanbase in the NHL and probably in pro sports and were very recently rated the worst value in all of professional sports, the worst bang for your buck that is, so again you are talking out of your a$$.http://www.huffingtonpost...-franchise_n_5850424.html