One thing about the Worlds that is bothering me again (I luckily forgot for a few months) is us not keeping Jussi. The after the fact thought in my head is... No Ehrhoff, keep Jussi at the same cost, let the young D play more, and Malkin gets a winger that was great with him.
- Guile

I like Jussi Jokinen but signing him to that contract last year would have been risky.

I like Jussi Jokinen but signing him to that contract last year would have been risky.
- jfkst1

I wouldn't have given him 4 years... ending with him at 35 is too risky. But a two year deal, or a 3 year without a NMC/NTC, that I'd have done. Best all around winger Malkin has had in my opinion.

I wouldn't have given him 4 years... ending with him at 35 is too risky. But a two year deal, or a 3 year without a NMC/NTC, that I'd have done. Best all around winger Malkin has had in my opinion.
- Guile

You think he'd have signed for that with the 4 year deal out there?

I wouldn't have given him 4 years... ending with him at 35 is too risky. But a two year deal, or a 3 year without a NMC/NTC, that I'd have done. Best all around winger Malkin has had in my opinion.
- Guile

I like your thought process by why would Jussi want to sign that deal?

You think he'd have signed for that with the 4 year deal out there?
- dbell646

Three years at 12 million, or Four at sixteen... Don't know if we even offered him anything.

Can say that if he valued wins and a chance at a cup more than another guaranteed 4 mil year, then yes, he might of. But players like that are few and far between. I would have liked us to at least attempted to retain him, but he didnt have a GM at the time to do so.

I like your thought process by why would Jussi want to sign that deal?
- jaydogg1974

Lets say we got that offer out before Florida offered him... that would be the best case scenario actually.

I wouldn't have given him 4 years... ending with him at 35 is too risky. But a two year deal, or a 3 year without a NMC/NTC, that I'd have done. Best all around winger Malkin has had in my opinion.
- Guile

Yea, I don't see that as being a realistic contract. Ehrhoff's $4M, in hindsight, is definitely better allocated for a forward. However, I think you are overrating Jussi. He was a nice complementary piece for Geno and rightfully should not have been signed here for what he signed in Florida. I mean he only had 8 goals this year. I dont want to be near that contract in a few years. Honestly, I would have rather had Kulemin than Jussi if we were going by free agents.

Similiarly, it stings that Shero backed out on Clarke MacArthur in favor of Scuderi.

Yea, I don't see that as being a realistic contract. Ehrhoff's $4M, in hindsight, is definitely better allocated for a forward. However, I think you are overrating Jussi. He was a nice complementary piece for Geno and rightfully should not have been signed here for what he signed in Florida. I mean he only had 8 goals this year. I dont want to be near that contract in a few years. Honestly, I would have rather had Kulemin than Jussi if we were going by free agents.

Similiarly, it stings that Shero backed out on Clarke MacArthur in favor of Scuderi.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Compare Jussi to what Malkin has had, and the cheap Defense we would be having during the length of a 3 year deal with him. That four million would have been fine in that regard.

Compare Jussi to what Malkin has had, and the cheap Defense we would be having during the length of a 3 year deal with him. That four million would have been fine in that regard.
- Guile

I see your point but I will agree to disagree with you. Another older, streaky, soft player at that contract just doesnt make sense regardless of whether or not we have the cash to do it.

Now, back to this Rychel proposal....I can get interested in that.

Nice to watch hockey as it should be played not the cement headed NHL style. Playing in the NHL has to be frustrating to skilled players. Letting the hacks control the game is an absolute shame. Wake up NHL, you are really missing the boat.

Three years at 12 million, or Four at sixteen... Don't know if we even offered him anything.

Can say that if he valued wins and a chance at a cup more than another guaranteed 4 mil year, then yes, he might of. But players like that are few and far between. I would have liked us to at least attempted to retain him, but he didnt have a GM at the time to do so.
- Guile

Florida also doesn't have state tax. Not saying we wouldn't have appealed more but an extra year and making more money via taxes plus living at the beach might have made a difference.

I see your point but I will agree to disagree with you. Another older, streaky, soft player at that contract just doesnt make sense regardless of whether or not we have the cash to do it.

Now, back to this Rychel proposal....I can get interested in that.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

What's the proposal?

I see your point but I will agree to disagree with you. Another older, streaky, soft player at that contract just doesnt make sense regardless of whether or not we have the cash to do it.

Now, back to this Rychel proposal....I can get interested in that.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Well, calling him streaky I will argue with... hes almost always given more assists than goals, and for being on a Florida team that was not expected to do much, 44 points in 81 games is quite good.

Career of a .62 points per game (just over 50 points a year), and only missing 38 games in his career out of 779 (Which yes, would go way up being a Penguin in the long run). Now, I had to check on what the "average" of a good and fair 2nd line winger should do... a good one is 45 points, and an average is at 37. This was from 2011.
http://www.pensionplanpup...should-that-forward-score

I'm not calling Jussi a great player, or even a great value at 4 million... But he was a great fit with Malkin, and I think we should have at least attempted to keep him here.

Florida also doesn't have state tax. Not saying we wouldn't have appealed more but an extra year and making more money via taxes plus living at the beach might have made a difference.
- dbell646

Yes, but he is Finnish... maybe he liked our colder weather

Regardless, I think had we made that offer, or that move as an extension before other people could come to the party, it could have landed him. First offer has its advantages.


edit note: Remember, this is all an "after the fact" on how Ehrhoff didn't work out here, Jussi's cost is the exact same, and our young D looking capable even in the postseason against the Rags.

Florida also doesn't have state tax. Not saying we wouldn't have appealed more but an extra year and making more money via taxes plus living at the beach might have made a difference.
- dbell646

Taxes make a huge difference in appeal to players. Canadian teams get screwed in that regard and some US states, like Florida, get major advantages.

Florida also doesn't have state tax. Not saying we wouldn't have appealed more but an extra year and making more money via taxes plus living at the beach might have made a difference.
- dbell646

But what if the NHL is moving the Panthers to Seattle? So, it's from beach to dreary and cold weather with 2 weeks without seeing the sunshine. But very good coffee.

But what if the NHL is moving the Panthers to Seattle? So, it's from beach to dreary and cold weather with 2 weeks without seeing the sunshine. But very good coffee.
- chimpira

Jagr being there can drive enough ticket sales to keep them around an extra year or two. Jagr is money, and also appears to Florida's massive retired folk population since hes nearly their age

But what if the NHL is moving the Panthers to Seattle? So, it's from beach to dreary and cold weather with 2 weeks without seeing the sunshine. But very good coffee.
- chimpira

Funny we actually get slightly more rain from what I'm reading but it rains 155 days in seattle and 146 in Pittsburgh

What's the proposal?
- dbell646

Well I proposed something like

Harrington+Wilson/Dea
for
Rychel

Yes, but he is Finnish... maybe he liked our colder weather

Regardless, I think had we made that offer, or that move as an extension before other people could come to the party, it could have landed him. First offer has its advantages.


edit note: Remember, this is all an "after the fact" on how Ehrhoff didn't work out here, Jussi's cost is the exact same, and our young D looking capable even in the postseason against the Rags.
- Guile

But Ehrhoff was only 1 year at $4M....Jussi at 4 years is considerably more risky given his age.

But Ehrhoff was only 1 year at $4M....Jussi at 4 years is considerably more risky given his age.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Three years, I wouldn't have given Jussi four... hense my wanting this offer to have gone to him before all of our GM dancing, and before Florida's came in.

But what if the NHL is moving the Panthers to Seattle? So, it's from beach to dreary and cold weather with 2 weeks without seeing the sunshine. But very good coffee.
- chimpira

Dreary cold weather?

Other than Florida, I would take Seattle's weather over the entire eastern Seaboard and anything in the mid States

Well, calling him streaky I will argue with... hes almost always given more assists than goals, and for being on a Florida team that was not expected to do much, 44 points in 81 games is quite good.

Career of a .62 points per game (just over 50 points a year), and only missing 38 games in his career out of 779 (Which yes, would go way up being a Penguin in the long run). Now, I had to check on what the "average" of a good and fair 2nd line winger should do... a good one is 45 points, and an average is at 37. This was from 2011.
http://www.pensionplanpup...should-that-forward-score

I'm not calling Jussi a great player, or even a great value at 4 million... But he was a great fit with Malkin, and I think we should have at least attempted to keep him here.
- Guile

That's a good data dive. Thx.

I do still see him ultimately as a complementary player and not one to overpay for.

Question, where do you stand on Alexander Semin? Just want to make sure you aren't one of those people bashing me for wanting to get Semin at 50% when Jussi is actually a close comparable in that 1.) had one bad year in a long, proven career 2.) Could be gotten for peanuts 3.) Could find similiar chemistry with Geno

Well I proposed something like

Harrington+Wilson/Dea
for
Rychel
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I think I'd try and retain Wilson if at all possible as he's shown NHL bottom 6 potential... I'd try Harrington + Dea/Uher/ Kuhnhackl

I know you have to give to get, but in my view Harrington for Rychel is pretty close to even as is.. Both are young, but unproven players with decent potential... Potential top 4 D for a potential top 6 winger is fair value for me.. We add the touch extra because it's a former 1st rounder vs a 2nd rounded...

Three years, I wouldn't have given Jussi four... hense my wanting this offer to have gone to him before all of our GM dancing, and before Florida's came in.
- Guile

When the offer was made really means little, players usually have a very good idea of what they will be getting on the open market. For all we know the Pens did call to talk and he wasn't interested until he heard other offers or he didn't want to listen to offers under 4 years. Just because no formal offer was ever made public doesn't mean there wasn't dialogue before FA started. Just because we as fans think a deal makes sense doesn't mean the player thinks it makes sense and timing sometimes means little because as we're seeing with the Babcock situation, sometimes players/coaches just want to see what's out there before they make a decision regardless of what offers have already been made.