I'm salivating at strome/marner up the middle for the next decade....

Make the deal Shanny! This could be you blackhawks (Toews Kane) moment.
- Pen15

You are gonna be sadly disappointed if they make that trade and all of a sudden they pick Crouse over Marner.

I like the idea of Phil being included to Carolina for the pick, however, as everyone else has stated, taking on Semin's albatross of a contract is taking a step back. Despite the fact I think the inclusion of Kadri in that trade is also an overpayment, the big factor for that trade is taking on Semin and his overpaid contract.

To shift topics for a second, as a Leafs fan, there's nothing more I'd like to see them do is trade Edmonton for the McJesus pick. However, we have to understand this is not going to happen. Not for us, or any other team in the league. So seeing proposal after proposal for the suggested future of hockey is getting to be a bit much.

In order to put it in perspective, check out the goods received by Quebec in the comparable Lindros trade. Keep in mind that this is pre-cap era so the players/contracts weren't as much of a issues, however also consider that Lindros publicly stated he did not want to play there ultimately putting Quebec under the gun to trade him and likely lessening the trade value. Anyways, here it is:

Big E

for

Steve Duchesne
Peter Forsberg
Ron Hextall
Kerry Huffman
Mike Ricci
$15M cash
1993 1st round pick (#10-Jocelyn Thibault)
Chris Simon
1994 1st round pick (#10-Nolan Baumgartner)

If I were to use Toronto comparables for the players (close as I could get based on the current roster), for this trade it would look something like:

Duchesne - 28-30 years old offensive dman - Phaneuf
Forsberg - high blue chip prospect - Nylander
Hextall - was a starter with previous decent stats however on downswing of career - Reimer
Huffman - 3rd line plugger good for about 20-30 points a season - Komarov
Ricci - young forward drafted #4 overall and put up big points in Jr. - Kadri
Simon - was only 20 years old tough guy with some scoring touch - Carrick

Obviously I had to work with the current roster and not all players are exact comparables, however this gives an idea of size of return what might be expected by Edmonton in addition to the 2 first round picks and cash. Pure craziness.

things change. Patrick stefan was selected 1st overall in 99. by '01 he couldn't get a 3rd rounder on the market.

why be stubborn? what does the past have to do with the future? it's where the players are NOW that matters
- clark_griswold

Nothing has changed.

Kadri was picked 7th overall, currently sits 8th in nhl scoring from players in the 2009 draft. Every guy above him has played 90 - 180 games more.

I like the idea of Phil being included to Carolina for the pick, however, as everyone else has stated, taking on Semin's albatross of a contract is taking a step back. Despite the fact I think the inclusion of Kadri in that trade is also an overpayment, the big factor for that trade is taking on Semin and his overpaid contract.

To shift topics for a second, as a Leafs fan, there's nothing more I'd like to see them do is trade Edmonton for the McJesus pick. However, we have to understand this is not going to happen. Not for us, or any other team in the league. So seeing proposal after proposal for the suggested future of hockey is getting to be a bit much.

In order to put it in perspective, check out the goods received by Quebec in the comparable Lindros trade. Keep in mind that this is pre-cap era so the players/contracts weren't as much of a issues, however also consider that Lindros publicly stated he did not want to play there ultimately putting Quebec under the gun to trade him and likely lessening the trade value. Anyways, here it is:

Big E

for

Steve Duchesne
Peter Forsberg
Ron Hextall
Kerry Huffman
Mike Ricci
$15M cash
1993 1st round pick (#10-Jocelyn Thibault)
Chris Simon
1994 1st round pick (#10-Nolan Baumgartner)

If I were to use Toronto comparables for the players (close as I could get based on the current roster), for this trade it would look something like:

Duchesne - 28-30 years old offensive dman - Phaneuf
Forsberg - high blue chip prospect - Nylander
Hextall - was a starter with previous decent stats however on downswing of career - Reimer
Huffman - 3rd line plugger good for about 20-30 points a season - Komarov
Ricci - young forward drafted #4 overall and put up big points in Jr. - Kadri
Simon - was only 20 years old tough guy with some scoring touch - Carrick

Obviously I had to work with the current roster and not all players are exact comparables, however this gives an idea of size of return what might be expected by Edmonton in addition to the 2 first round picks and cash. Pure craziness.
- JSC

Well I'd do it in heart beat if that's all it took . That Lindros deal worked out nice for Quebec thou

probelm is eric has 1 year left on his deal.

i guess we also disagree how much prime kessel/staal have left. to me, they don't do much more than what staal / semin do now. I'd love that deal, if carolina does it, the GM should be fired immediately
- clark_griswold

Yes that is my point. If Carolina doesn't do something to make this team good now then it is far more likely that Eric walks instead of resigning. Carolina needs to make a choice, trade prospects and picks for win now assets or trade Eric now for futures and embrace the rebuild.

If they want to re-sign Staal then they need to make steps to improve the team. Picking up an elite scorer to play with Staal for a top 5 pick that may turn into a top line player is a huge win for Carolina. Also if you consider Staal-Semin the same as Staal-Kessel then you have problems, lol.

Personally I would want more out of the deal. If this is the only offer on the table I'm not opposed to taking it but considering the ceiling on Strome/Marner/Hanifin is lower than what Kessel is and we are not forced to move him I would want a 2016 1st or solid young player/prospect as well. Especially if we are taking Semin's cap dump.

Now I am not saying Carolina should make this deal. It really depends where they are going and I would talk to Eric about an extension first but if they are going that route then make the deal now. I just hope Toronto doesn't panic and make that move without another asset.

Thank god I'm not the only one that thinks this way. How in the world is an elite player and one of the best wingers in the game today only worth a 1st and a salary dumb? Oh might as well throw in a young center who still has potential to become much better just for hell of it. I swear that some leaf fans minds get warped over time by the constant undervaluing of our players by other teams fans. The constant bashing by our own media sure doesn't help either. I'm very glad it's EK reporting this for obvious reasons. At face value that trade is atrocious for the leafs unless they're adding something else significant. Lawson Crouse is not worth that much IMO.
- bmoney411

the market tells you what he's worth. answer these questions:

1)what does keeping him for 7 more years do, considering how the last 5 years worked?

2) what IF the pick at #5 turns out to be a valuable player..forget star, even a 2nd liner. Is that not more valuable going forward than kessel is/will be in 5 years?

It would take the 4th overall pick, jvr, Morgan rielly and William nylander to even peak the interest of Edmonton to trade mcdavid.

Not happy with this in the least save for the pick. Yes it's great but I am not a big fan of Semin in any way shape or form. Can a change of scenery hep? Possibly. But a change of scenery didn't help him get any better in Carolina from Washington.

I am hoping that this is a starting point to launch from to begin talks with Arizona about the third pick.

Thoughts on a similar package of Kessel, Kadri, a pick (TBD) for Domi and Arizona's third?

Hey I can dream.
- VaderMaul666

The Coyotes GM should be fired immediately and placed in a pair of mafia shoes and dropped in the middle of the ocean right next to bin laden. I mean if he would consider this not now/ yet.

Nothing has changed.

Kadri was picked 7th overall, currently sits 8th in nhl scoring from players in the 2009 draft. Every guy above him has played 90 - 180 games more.
- vermie22

that means nothing. 2009 was a bad draft. compare him to say the next draft, 2010. I'd take several players in that first round over naz.

your argument is like saying 'sam gagner led all arizona forwards in points'...well he still had only 41 points..

and stats don't tell the whole story; or i guess in naz' case they do. Since he is one dimensional. other guys play defense, PK, block shots, fight etc.

Yup, everyone inside the game is wrong. Kessel/JvR/Bernier/Phaneuf = suck
- PatC80

First thing you got right, otherwise the Maple Leafs would not = suck.

Again you're right Kessel/JvR/Bernier/Phaneuf = suck...because they were together on the same team. Put Kessel with Crosby or Malkin or Thornton or Tavares or Backstrom or Getzlaf or Towes. Does he still suck?
- VaderMaul666

He's still a chubby little muskrat, pouter, quitter that can't play defense.

Yes that is my point. If Carolina doesn't do something to make this team good now then it is far more likely that Eric walks instead of resigning. Carolina needs to make a choice, trade prospects and picks for win now assets or trade Eric now for futures and embrace the rebuild.

If they want to re-sign Staal then they need to make steps to improve the team. Picking up an elite scorer to play with Staal for a top 5 pick that may turn into a top line player is a huge win for Carolina. Also if you consider Staal-Semin the same as Staal-Kessel then you have problems, lol.

Personally I would want more out of the deal. If this is the only offer on the table I'm not opposed to taking it but considering the ceiling on Strome/Marner/Hanifin is lower than what Kessel is and we are not forced to move him I would want a 2016 1st or solid young player/prospect as well. Especially if we are taking Semin's cap dump.

Now I am not saying Carolina should make this deal. It really depends where they are going and I would talk to Eric about an extension first but if they are going that route then make the deal now. I just hope Toronto doesn't panic and make that move without another asset.
- Steven_Dean

how do you know this? phil was taken 5th overall, which is this pick. He's also at the age of his career where offense tails off.

no one knows what carolina would do. but if i'm them, i'm moving on from staal etc. and rebuilding. thinking staal and kessel will buy your team some time/save them money is a short term approach.

It would take the 4th overall pick, jvr, Morgan rielly and William nylander to even peak the interest of Edmonton to trade mcdavid.
- joshs

they still wouldn't do that...nor should they

that means nothing. 2009 was a bad draft. compare him to say the next draft, 2010. I'd take several players in that first round over naz.
- clark_griswold

great deflection, I don't care who came in the draft after or before, might as well compare him to the draft of 1998 for that matter

the fact is, he was viewed by leafs as the best player in that draft available in the 7 spot, and currently they were spot on. Give him the same number of games and he is sitting 5th right behind Kane.

He's still a chubby little muskrat, pouter, quitter that can't play defense.
- Dcoms

agreed. all the IFs don't mean anything.

great deflection, I don't care who came in the draft after or before, might as well compare him to the draft of 1998 for that matter

the fact is, he was viewed by leafs as the best player in that draft available in the 7 spot, and currently they were spot on. Give him the same number of games and he is sitting 5th right behind Kane.
- vermie22

you brought up the draft? so ......i think you do care. you then further went on to talk about the draft; so i'm confused.

and kane is crap too. talented but a cancer. I don't know what your point is. you always seem to debate my posts, which i welcome. But what is the point? kadri is good?

I like the idea of Phil being included to Carolina for the pick, however, as everyone else has stated, taking on Semin's albatross of a contract is taking a step back. Despite the fact I think the inclusion of Kadri in that trade is also an overpayment, the big factor for that trade is taking on Semin and his overpaid contract.

To shift topics for a second, as a Leafs fan, there's nothing more I'd like to see them do is trade Edmonton for the McJesus pick. However, we have to understand this is not going to happen. Not for us, or any other team in the league. So seeing proposal after proposal for the suggested future of hockey is getting to be a bit much.

In order to put it in perspective, check out the goods received by Quebec in the comparable Lindros trade. Keep in mind that this is pre-cap era so the players/contracts weren't as much of a issues, however also consider that Lindros publicly stated he did not want to play there ultimately putting Quebec under the gun to trade him and likely lessening the trade value. Anyways, here it is:

Big E

for

Steve Duchesne
Peter Forsberg
Ron Hextall
Kerry Huffman
Mike Ricci
$15M cash
1993 1st round pick (#10-Jocelyn Thibault)
Chris Simon
1994 1st round pick (#10-Nolan Baumgartner)

If I were to use Toronto comparables for the players (close as I could get based on the current roster), for this trade it would look something like:

Duchesne - 28-30 years old offensive dman - Phaneuf
Forsberg - high blue chip prospect - Nylander
Hextall - was a starter with previous decent stats however on downswing of career - Reimer
Huffman - 3rd line plugger good for about 20-30 points a season - Komarov
Ricci - young forward drafted #4 overall and put up big points in Jr. - Kadri
Simon - was only 20 years old tough guy with some scoring touch - Carrick

Obviously I had to work with the current roster and not all players are exact comparables, however this gives an idea of size of return what might be expected by Edmonton in addition to the 2 first round picks and cash. Pure craziness.
- JSC

That is essentially what it would take:

Phaneuf/Gardiner
Kadri/Bozak
Nylander
Reimer
Holland/Komarov
4th overall pick
25th overall pick

For

McGrezky (1st overall pick, lol)
Cap dumps (Pouliot/Purcell/Nikitin/Fayne)
-any or all of the above, Edmonton's call

With this kind of offer I would consider it if I was Edmonton but it isn't an easy decision by any means. The idea of having McDavid with that young core is so appealing.

the market tells you what he's worth. answer these questions:

1)what does keeping him for 7 more years do, considering how the last 5 years worked?

2) what IF the pick at #5 turns out to be a valuable player..forget star, even a 2nd liner. Is that not more valuable going forward than kessel is/will be in 5 years?
- clark_griswold

1) I've seen constient 30 goal scores like kessel keep this pace right till their 35. We may not have accomplished anything in the last 5 years but thats more then just a 1 player problem. There are still 17 other players on this team. Kessel still produced at an elite rate on a crap team. We need more players on our team producing we don't have to take a step back and be forced to find another one later on. Kessel has been a one man team on the forward front. Look at the contenders today. They all have more then just 1 elite player on their team.

2) This is weird question. Would I take a potential 2nd liner over an elite player? No. No I wouldn't. Kessel in his down swing will produce just as much if not more then a career 2nd line player.

3) Kessel plays in such a way that this guy can play right to his 40's if he wanted to. The guy rarely gets injured. He doesn't play a game where it wares down his body overtime. In all honesty he should outlast most people in his age group career wise.

Edm: 4th overall, 5th overall, Gardiner, Rielly
Tor: McDavid, Semin
Carolina: Kessel, Bozak

that's honestly more like it
- AlfieisKing

No
McDavid should be the definition of untouchable, not only will he be a great player but all his hype is a marketing dream, he will be generating income long before he even plays his first game. And YES teams do consider revenue generating as a top reason to make/ not make trades/ moves.

how do you know this? phil was taken 5th overall, which is this pick. He's also at the age of his career where offense tails off.

no one knows what carolina would do. but if i'm them, i'm moving on from staal etc. and rebuilding. thinking staal and kessel will buy your team some time/save them money is a short term approach.
- clark_griswold

yep that deal only makes sense for Toronto. Kessel and kadri for the 5th overall pick 2016 1st and semin Everyone knows Toronto is looking to move assets. It diminishes their value.

you brought up the draft? so ......i think you do care. you then further went on to talk about the draft; so i'm confused.

and kane is crap too. talented but a cancer. I don't know what your point is. you always seem to debate my posts, which i welcome. But what is the point? kadri is good?
- clark_griswold

you made a comment regarding that Kadri being a 7th pick didn't mean anything today, as things have changed since. I just pointed out he is playing exactly like one could have predicted based on his draft position and the players drafted around him.


you comment was in response to someone saying we are trading the 2009, 2010, 2011 1st rounder picks for the 5th.

how do you know this? phil was taken 5th overall, which is this pick. He's also at the age of his career where offense tails off.

no one knows what carolina would do. but if i'm them, i'm moving on from staal etc. and rebuilding. thinking staal and kessel will buy your team some time/save them money is a short term approach.
- clark_griswold

I don't but that is the point. You don't know what would happen with this pick. The odds of him turning into an elite scorer like Kessel is far less than the odds of him turning into a 2nd/3rd liner. My point is if Carolina wants to win now (not full rebuild and keep Eric Staal) then they should make this deal if it is offered. I would want more if I am Toronto as the chance of the pick being a second liner or bust is there (minimal but there).

1) I've seen constient 30 goal scores like kessel keep this pace right till their 35. We may not have accomplished anything in the last 5 years but thats more then just a 1 player problem. There are still 17 other players on this team. Kessel still produced at an elite rate on a crap team. We need more players on our team producing we don't have to take a step back and be forced to find another one later on. Kessel has been a one man team on the forward front. Look at the contenders today. They all have more then just 1 elite player on their team.

2) This is weird question. Would I take a potential 2nd liner over an elite player? No. No I wouldn't. Kessel in his down swing will produce just as much if not more then a career 2nd line player.

3) Kessel plays in such a way that this guy can play right to his 40's if he wanted to. The guy rarely gets injured. He doesn't play a game where it wares down his body overtime. In all honesty he should outlast most people in his age group career wise.
- bmoney411

everything you say is valid. we just view it completely different.

1) going for a rebuild, i'd like to get an asset that is the same age/in that ball park as the nylanders, our 4th pick, rielly etc so in 5 years when we are decent (hopefully) they all grow together in their prime. Not with a 33/34 year old kessel. This goes back to your 'most teams have more than 1 elite player' comment.

2) the 2nd line player was hypothetical. And a 2nd line player in his prime, would be better than an over the hill kessel type player IMO. But again, that's worst case scenario

3)i will fully say no one knows where this will end up. However, unless it's jagr, ray whitney and a handfull of others, most scorers don't play that long. it's the role players etc who usually do. THe veteran leaders.

you made a comment regarding that Kadri being a 7th pick didn't mean anything today, as things have changed since. I just pointed out he is playing exactly like one could have predicted based on his draft position and the players drafted around him.


you comment was in response to someone saying we are trading the 2009, 2010, 2011 1st rounder picks for the 5th.
- vermie22

i think every gm thought their 2009 pick would turn out better except for say JT , OEL and hedman. Even duchene has been inconsistent. Brayden Schenn? Kane? kadri? to me all have underachieved.

my comment was it doesn't matter where a guy was taken, it's where he is today. Jamie Benn was a 5th rounder. Just because kadri/jvr were taken high (7th / 2nd) doesn't change what they are worth now based on their play.

A deal between Toronto and Carolina does make sense. The east is weak and Carolina still has a few good players. Carolina could just as easily concede the season and begin their rebuild. Toronto would have to lose the trade to make it work.