We don't HAVE to trade Phil at this point. The idea is make the team better and trading him for a late first will NEVER make the Leafs better than just having him on the team. You're right in that the Leafs don't set the market, but they also don't have to be a victim of it either.
- djamon

what's worse - hanging on to him and losing him for nothing, or getting a 1st rounder for him, even a 2nd FFS? this is hypothetical of course.

the team will be horrendous regardless if we keep him or not. His stats next year will not improve if everyone around him is gone.

i'll take the best bid for him, rather than be stubborn and lose him for nothing because i feel 'he's worth more'.

the market is the market...we are only victims of it if we let an asset like phil diminish for nothing.

Take dany heatley - he was way better than phil too. When OTT traded him, everyone thought they got raped. I'd say besides his first year, it was much better that ottawa dumped his sorry ass.

i just don't see kessel ever being the guy to do anything for your team than be that one dimensional scorer who sacrifices all other areas of the game to do so. In fact, i'd argue his numbers would go down in a structured hockey market. He benefited from playing in an all offense environment in TO.

7.5 isn't 7. 8 isn't 7.5..... I'm not having Kessel on any team making 8m...
- AlfieisKing

But Ryan at 7.25 is ok?

Oh okay, so were gonna trade what essentially was our 2009, 2010 and 2011 1st round picks for..... Alex Semin and Mitch Marner?

Alrighty then
- t_leafs21

things change. Patrick stefan was selected 1st overall in 99. by '01 he couldn't get a 3rd rounder on the market.

why be stubborn? what does the past have to do with the future? it's where the players are NOW that matters

Staal-Staal-Kessel
Skinner-Kadri-Lindholm

Yeah, I'm okay with that.

A top, TOP source

Wow , this must be big

Staal-Staal-Kessel
Skinner-Kadri-Lindholm

Yeah, I'm okay with that.
- BINGO!

so am i. where do i sign?

you may laugh now, but you won't be in 3-5 years when your team is STILL in the position they are in now.

what's worse - hanging on to him and losing him for nothing, or getting a 1st rounder for him, even a 2nd FFS? this is hypothetical of course.

the team will be horrendous regardless if we keep him or not. His stats next year will not improve if everyone around him is gone.

i'll take the best bid for him, rather than be stubborn and lose him for nothing because i feel 'he's worth more'.

the market is the market...we are only victims of it if we let an asset like phil diminish for nothing.

Take dany heatley - he was way better than phil too. When OTT traded him, everyone thought they got raped. I'd say besides his first year, it was much better that ottawa dumped his sorry ass.

i just don't see kessel ever being the guy to do anything for your team than be that one dimensional scorer who sacrifices all other areas of the game to do so. In fact, i'd argue his numbers would go down in a structured hockey market. He benefited from playing in an all offense environment in TO.
- clark_griswold

How would we lose him for nothing? He's a fixed asset for the next 7 years. You're advocating trading him when his value is at its lowest point of the last 4 years. That's just poor asset management, IMO.

You bring up Heatley (I'm not sure I agree he was better than Phil, but meh), I could bring up Joe Thornton or Rick Nash. Their teams, for whatever reasons, traded them when their values were low and it worked out awful for both of them.

This could all be moot anyway, his value is pretty high around the league from what I've read. It's Leaf fans who devalue him constantly.

But Ryan at 7.25 is ok?
- Feeling Glucky?

Starting NEXT year too. That's gonna work out well.

Just for a laugh, say this trade is plausible. Would you draft Marner and Strome? Or would you look at Lawson Crouse? Anyone have information on 17 year olds who have made the World Junior team? Usually have a pretty good track record.

Looking at it again this morning, it's probably not that bad.

Trade rumors last year were JVR and 7th (Nylander) for 1st(Ekblad).

Looking back, tough trade, but Ekblad was probably worth that.

It may be that teams are really high on picks 3-5 this year and Kessel + Kadri is expensive but worth it, especially considering the stage of contracts kessel and kadri are at vs. the #5 pick.

Kinda like Theoren Fleury, when he was younger.. A "buzzsaw" type player.. small, fast, physical.
- PatC80

Fixed

How would we lose him for nothing? He's a fixed asset for the next 7 years. You're advocating trading him when his value is at its lowest point of the last 4 years. That's just poor asset management, IMO.

You bring up Heatley (I'm not sure I agree he was better than Phil, but meh), I could bring up Joe Thornton or Rick Nash. Their teams, for whatever reasons, traded them when their values were low and it worked out awful for both of them.

This could all be moot anyway, his value is pretty high around the league from what I've read. It's Leaf fans who devalue him constantly.
- djamon

i'm not saying dump him immediately, but IMO how are his numbers going to look playing with Sill and say holland on line 1 IF the firesale happens? with his sucky attitude, i don't know how he'll handle a rebuild. to me it could make his value go lower as:

-numbers may/probably go down on a worse team
-media will continue to be all over him for not performing
-his one dimensional play get even more spotlight with a losing team

i don't know if his value improves/declines, but i'd bet the latter. Don't let him get any more warts/negative press than he already has. Nonis said in his interview the other day that Dion got more interest than Phil. i think that has to do with attitude etc, because no way that phil ISN"T the better player.

PS i hate heatley, but it ain't close vs him kessel. to me, i see the same career spinoff with phil that heatley saw at an early age. Both were simply floating/getting by on natural talent.

Heatly had 2 50 g season, a 40 and 2 39g seasons. Also 2 100 point seasons. i don't care who he was playing with. He fell off a complete cliff at age 29....weird, seems most offense peaks at that age/starts to decline eh???

Starting NEXT year too. That's gonna work out well.
- djamon

booby ryan is terrible. THat deal makes any leaf deal look good

so am i. where do i sign?

you may laugh now, but you won't be in 3-5 years when your team is STILL in the position they are in now.
- clark_griswold

At this point we don't have a lot of options other than to go for it. You never know... maybe getting away from Toronto sees a resurgence for Kessel.

things change. Patrick stefan was selected 1st overall in 99. by '01 he couldn't get a 3rd rounder on the market.

why be stubborn? what does the past have to do with the future? it's where the players are NOW that matters
- clark_griswold

It's not as much being stubborn as another example of how terrible franchises are run lol

Teams have franchise players from those drafts while we would have an overpaid bum and a guy who could be good someday. This trade wouldn't happen anyway

At this point we don't have a lot of options other than to go for it. You never know... maybe getting away from Toronto sees a resurgence for Kessel.
- BINGO!

possible. i just think his attitude stinks worse than his whopper breath. he's like semin but consistent...or was consistent anyways

It's not as much being stubborn as another example of how terrible franchises are run lol

Teams have franchise players from those drafts while we would have an overpaid bum and a guy who could be good someday. This trade wouldn't happen anyway
- t_leafs21

it's definately not happening.

and you are preaching to the choir with how bad the leafs have been run.

PS i hate heatley, but it ain't close vs him kessel. to me, i see the same career spinoff with phil that heatley saw at an early age. Both were simply floating/getting by on natural talent.

Heatly had 2 50 g season, a 40 and 2 39g seasons. Also 2 100 point seasons. i don't care who he was playing with. He fell off a complete cliff at age 29....weird, seems most offense peaks at that age/starts to decline eh???
- clark_griswold

Heatley was a terrible skater, and even worse in his off-season habits than Phil. You may be right about Phil down the road...who among us can say for sure how he'll age? But all I know is his value is at its lowest right now, and that seems like the worst time to accept whatever you can get for him.

Fun little exercise:

Alex Semin: 635 GP, 238g, 275a, 513 pts, +72
Phil Kessel: 668gp, 247g, 273a, 520 pts, -72

doesn't prove anything, just bored at work so there you go.

Heatley was a terrible skater, and even worse in his off-season habits than Phil. You may be right about Phil down the road...who among us can say for sure how he'll age? But all I know is his value is at its lowest right now, and that seems like the worst time to accept whatever you can get for him.
- djamon

it's not high, but i don't see it getting higher to be honest.

If we don't hit a home run then walk away. We don't HAVE to trade Phil. He's worth the #5 pick all by himself...easily. And yet some people want us to take a contract dump as well? That's ridiculous. He was a top 10 scorer 3 years running, but people want to devalue him based on one sub-par (61 points!) year. Hold on to him...maybe the Cap loosens up and he has a better year. This is a very important trade for the Leafs...we shouldn't be getting rid of an elite player just because we want changes.
- djamon

Thank god I'm not the only one that thinks this way. How in the world is an elite player and one of the best wingers in the game today only worth a 1st and a salary dumb? Oh might as well throw in a young center who still has potential to become much better just for hell of it. I swear that some leaf fans minds get warped over time by the constant undervaluing of our players by other teams fans. The constant bashing by our own media sure doesn't help either. I'm very glad it's EK reporting this for obvious reasons. At face value that trade is atrocious for the leafs unless they're adding something else significant. Lawson Crouse is not worth that much IMO.

Id do that deal obviously Canes add more but Id also like to move Dion in a deal for a mid to late 1st

Thank god I'm not the only one that thinks this way. How in the world is an elite player and one of the best wingers in the game today only worth a 1st and a salary dumb? Oh might as well throw in a young center who still has potential to become much better just for hell of it. I swear that some leaf fans minds get warped over time by the constant undervaluing of our players by other teams fans. The constant bashing by our own media sure doesn't help either. I'm very glad it's EK reporting this for obvious reasons. At face value that trade is atrocious for the leafs unless they're adding something else significant. Lawson Crouse is not worth that much IMO.
- bmoney411

I assume Canes add more thats just a starter

I don't want Mitch Marner

Three way deal.

Edmonton
4th Overall
5th Overall

Toronto
1st Overall

Carolina
Kessel
Bozak


- KesselRules

Wow, the stupidity/ absurdity of leafs nation. Made my day though. That's like trading an Aston Martin for 2 honda civics. Cut you're probably in to honda's too.