I have more faith in their scouting and drafting than trading. What do they have to show for Buff, Ladd, Brouwer, etc. A good gm would have more to show in the way of some young players acquired from other teams.
- howiehandles

This is pure nonsense. Those players were unloaded for cap purposes, not to improve the team. You can't look at those trades in the same context as something like the Handzus trade or Barker for Johnsson and Leddy.

And there are still prospects drafted from those trades who could still have impacts.

You can remember without retiring numbers. Have a Team Hall of Fame, but don't deprive some young kid the chance to wear the number of his idol when his dream of playing for his hometown team come true. It's just silly.
- Ogilthorpe2

Agree, Ogi. You can still hang a banner, but un-retire the numbers. Then, if another player, wearing the same number, also becomes a team HOF'er, attach a 2nd banner to the first one. The odds are that it won't happen very often.

Hawks should retire #85

This is pure nonsense. Those players were unloaded for cap purposes, not to improve the team. You can't look at those trades in the same context as something like the Handzus trade or Barker for Johnsson and Leddy.

And there are still prospects drafted from those trades who could still have impacts.
- Sandus

I don't think his comment is non-sense at all. Players unloaded "for cap reasons" don't need to be given away. Put it this way, Patrick Sharp may be moved in the summer "for cap reasons". I think it's ridiculous to think the return on Sharp would be a couple tomato cans. He's a great player who would be a great asset for any team out there looking for a player like him. Just because 'we have' to move him doesn't mean we are holding a LOW card. The talent of the player and what he can give a team negates that idea.

2, 19, 88, and maybe 81. Can't retire Sharp/Seabrook's number, they're not on that elite level imo.

I don't think his comment is non-sense at all. Players unloaded "for cap reasons" don't need to be given away. Put it this way, Patrick Sharp may be moved in the summer "for cap reasons". I think it's ridiculous to think the return on Sharp would be a couple tomato cans. He's a great player who would be a great asset for any team out there looking for a player like him. Just because 'we have' to move him doesn't mean we are holding a LOW card. The talent of the player and what he can give a team negates that idea.
- kwolf68

In2010, they had to finalize their cap-related player moves before July 1 because they couldn't have players signed for 2011-2012 with cap hits above the new cap for 2010-2011 - it's in the CBA and I can't remember the term for it.

They moved Versteeg and Byfuglien and thought they were through - then discovered the problem with the bonuses that meant they had to move Ladd in about a day.

They same cap problem faces them this year - whatever the cap hit is for 2015-2016, they can't have players signed above that cap for 2016-2017, so they will have to move players before July 1 again - a very short time to get good trades done. Plus - they still have to resign Saad and Kruger for next year, and I assume they would like to get something done with Seabrook fairly soon - other reasons for haste before July 1.

Moving (say) Sharp and Bickel, they won't be able to bring back rostered players - it would have to be for prospects and picks - and what (really) would each be worth on the market - neither probably for a good #1 pick or a highly rated prospect - Sharp will be 34 next December, and had an off-season (altho he has turned it up in the play-offs so far); Bickel had a (mostly) bad regular season (altho he, too, has turned it up in the tournament).

I''m not looking for much other than a decent pick / prospect and cap relief - an hope that the cap relief is enough to get below the cap.

All just IMO, of course.

That's my bad, I changed the sentence and missed half of it. I meant to say Seabrook over Chelios and Sharp over Hull.
- Sandus

Chelios didn't play long enough as a Hawk to have the number retired as a Hawk. His success was with other organizations.

Seabrook will retire as a Blackhawk, hopefully, with well over a 1000 games in that sweater. A key member of 2 Cup winning team. If 7 is retired it should be for Seabrook and ONLY Seabrook. imo.

I don' think anyone can question anymore how good this guy is.
- John Jaeckel

Oh but they will. Some fancy skating guy will come along and everyone will think they are better than Keith. They will be wrong. Advance stats are not the be-all end-all by any stretch of the imagination but if anyone wants a true understanding of how much mr. shinpads means to the Hawks' offense they should have a gander at his numbers. Staggering is the best way to describe it.

Duncan Keith is a slam dunk number retiree
- CaptainBlackhawk

He is also pretty much a slam dunk HoF'er too.

I don't think his comment is non-sense at all. Players unloaded "for cap reasons" don't need to be given away. Put it this way, Patrick Sharp may be moved in the summer "for cap reasons". I think it's ridiculous to think the return on Sharp would be a couple tomato cans. He's a great player who would be a great asset for any team out there looking for a player like him. Just because 'we have' to move him doesn't mean we are holding a LOW card. The talent of the player and what he can give a team negates that idea.
- kwolf68

There are situations where cap relief moves are more dire than others. Sharp - just for example - would not be as much pressure to move as Buff was to be moved. SB was clearly behind the 8-ball in 2010, not nearly as much in 2015. I'm not discounting this year's challenge but to me, 2010 was more difficult. Other GMs knew SB was in a big bind. 2010 also had the $4.1M bonus carryover that I do not believe will at all be in play in 2015.

Oh but they will. Some fancy skating guy will come along and everyone will think they are better than Keith. They will be wrong. Advance stats are not the be-all end-all by any stretch of the imagination but if anyone wants a true understanding of how much mr. shinpads means to the Hawks' offense they should have a gander at his numbers. Staggering is the best way to describe it.
- Elbows15

I'd feel better about him if he cleared his crease on a regular basis BEFORE the opposition shoots. He is a defenseman.

He is also pretty much a slam dunk HoF'er too.
- Elbows15

Two Norris, perhaps one-two more. You bet. Especially if he ends up with a Conn Smythe too.

I wasn't here for Larmer's years in Chicago. Would you include Doug Wilson, also? Always bugged me how he was shipped away at the end like that.
- 333inthe3rd

Gramps should have his number retired. He wore and performed in that sweater with honor, courage, and outstanding play. Larms was at the very least one of 5 best 2-way players of his generation. He was one tough SOB who never took a night off.

Doug Wilson can (frank) right off imo.

Two Norris, perhaps one-two more. You bet. Especially if he ends up with a Conn Smythe too.
- blackhawk24

2 Gold medals and you can argue whether he was the #1 or not for both of those teams. He sure the hell was for 2010 Gold.

I'd feel better about him if he cleared his crease on a regular basis BEFORE the opposition shoots. He is a defenseman.
- 6628

Quibble all you want 66. He is the best Dman to ever grace the Hawks sweater. And I have seen all of them over the last 50 years.

They are not crease clearers. Its not the way they are instructed. At the same time, look at how many times he stops the play before it even gets into his zone. In my world, that's defense.

There are situations where cap relief moves are more dire than others. Sharp - just for example - would not be as much pressure to move as Buff was to be moved. SB was clearly behind the 8-ball in 2010, not nearly as much in 2015. I'm not discounting this year's challenge but to me, 2010 was more difficult. Other GMs knew SB was in a big bind. 2010 also had the $4.1M bonus carryover that I do not believe will at all be in play in 2015.
- blackhawk24

True, but given Bowman has not made a single trade that has really benefited this team since Leddy (Desi is solid) underscores my concern and I worry about the coming summer. He gave up MORE to get Timonen than Montreal gave up to get a far more serviceable player in Petry. There is a perfect case study in his competence. The core players (none of which he really had anything to do with) are the stars of the show, seemingly overcoming whatever front office shenanigans take place.

I have no hope for the off-season. I expect high level players to be given away at the 11th hour under the gun for little next to nothing and lets hope the core players continue to remain healthy and a player or 5 from the farm are ready for prime time.

True, but given Bowman has not made a single trade that has really benefited this team since Leddy (Desi is solid) underscores my concern and I worry about the coming summer. He gave up MORE to get Timonen than Montreal gave up to get a far more serviceable player in Petry. There is a perfect case study in his competence. The core players (none of which he really had anything to do with) are the stars of the show, seemingly overcoming whatever front office shenanigans take place.

I have no hope for the off-season. I expect high level players to be given away at the 11th hour under the gun for little next to nothing and lets hope the core players continue to remain healthy and a player or 5 from the farm are ready for prime time.
- kwolf68

Johnny Oduya says hello.

Quibble all you want 66. He is the best Dman to ever grace the Hawks sweater. And I have seen all of them over the last 50 years.

They are not crease clearers. Its not the way they are instructed. At the same time, look at how many times he stops the play before it even gets into his zone. In my world, that's defense.
- Elbows15

No question that's his strength. How bout he position himself between the opposing player and the goalie at the very least when his partner is chasing a guy behind the net. I've seen him reaching for the guy who just scored too many times for my liking. To be fair, that goes for the rest of them as well.

We must be around the same age as I've seen them all in the last 50 years as well. I remember the 61 cup as a kid.

True, but given Bowman has not made a single trade that has really benefited this team since Leddy (Desi is solid) underscores my concern and I worry about the coming summer. He gave up MORE to get Timonen than Montreal gave up to get a far more serviceable player in Petry. There is a perfect case study in his competence. The core players (none of which he really had anything to do with) are the stars of the show, seemingly overcoming whatever front office shenanigans take place.

I have no hope for the off-season. I expect high level players to be given away at the 11th hour under the gun for little next to nothing and lets hope the core players continue to remain healthy and a player or 5 from the farm are ready for prime time.
- kwolf68

Didn't he draft Saad and sign Hossa? That's two of the top-6.

Drafted Shaw, traded for Handzus (who did contribute to the 2013 Cup team) and Oduya.

Restocked the farm with (what appear to be) at least serviceable players for the future, especially on defense.

He may not be a Jerry West or Red Auerbach as a GM, but he's not Jerry Krauss, either.

Johnny Oduya says hello.
- Elbows15

As does Michael Frolik. Also, maybe not his resigning but I think the trade to get Zus for 2013, actually benefitted the team.

No question that's his strength. How bout he position himself between the opposing player and the goalie at the very least when his partner is chasing a guy behind the net. I've seen him reaching for the guy who just scored too many times for my liking. To be fair, that goes for the rest of them as well.

We must be around the same age as I've seen them all in the last 50 years as well. I remember the 61 cup as a kid.
- 6628

We are close. I might be a little younger. 65 was the first heart break for me.

Edit: We see his flaws 66 because we watch every one of his games. I would venture a guess that if we did the same with the others such as Doughty, weber, etc we would see theirs too.

Didn't he draft Saad and sign Hossa? That's two of the top-6.

Drafted Shaw, traded for Handzus (who did contribute to the 2013 Cup team).

Restocked the farm with (what appear to be) at least serviceable players for the future, especially on defense.

He may not be a Jerry West or Red Auerbach as a GM, but he's not Jerry Krauss, either.
- StLBravesFan

What is not being said during the revisionist rant is that the whole league knew SB was in cap hell from the start of 2009-2010 season. I guess he might have gotten a bit better returns if he would have moved a couple of those guys during the season.

Quibble all you want 66. He is the best Dman to ever grace the Hawks sweater. And I have seen all of them over the last 50 years.

They are not crease clearers. Its not the way they are instructed. At the same time, look at how many times he stops the play before it even gets into his zone. In my world, that's defense.
- Elbows15

Pilotte was pretty good - several Norrisses and a Cup - but that was more than 50 years ago.

But it was a much different game then - and there were only about 30 defensemen in the league then.

We are close. I might be a little younger. 65 was the first heart break for me.

Edit: We see his flaws 66 because we watch every one of his games. I would venture a guess that if we did the same with the others such as Doughty, weber, etc we would see theirs too.
- Elbows15

You're probably right. Me having coached for so long doesn't help that either.

Didn't he draft Saad and sign Hossa? That's two of the top-6.

Drafted Shaw, traded for Handzus (who did contribute to the 2013 Cup team).

Restocked the farm with (what appear to be) at least serviceable players for the future, especially on defense.

He may not be a Jerry West or Red Auerbach as a GM, but he's not Jerry Krauss, either.
- StLBravesFan

The playoffs are still going last time I checked for these Hawks and maybe the trade to get Vermette works out also.

If the Hawks win the Cup is anyone really going to care that they gave up a low first round pick and a guy (who while serviceable) they apparently didn't think had as much upside as TVR, Johns, Pokka, Paliotta, Norell, Dahlstrom, Forslund or Press.

Aren't some of the people complaining about "overpaying" for Vermy the very same who derided Stan for never addressing the Center position and felt the Hawks would not be able to handle teams like LA who were deep at that position?