My point is that it isn't an effective use of their TOI and many other elite players don't kill penalties for that reason. Including on the teams that were mentioned (CHI and LAK). Differences in "pk specialists" is relatively insignificant. So it is a perception that flawed organizations, like this one, tend to overvalue.
- jfkst1

Youre right, its not the best use for them. That's why I wouldn't use Malkin. And Id use Cros only at the tail of it in the right situation. Ala game 1 where we spent half the period on the PK. At that point, NOT putting them out there is just dumb.

No changes to the lineup per Johnston.

I didn't like that play by Sid either but what wad Scuderi thinking? First he doesn't pass it up then he gets over the blue line and doesn't dump it in. Was he going to go coast to coast ?
- willi

At some point you have to wonder if 87 and 71 are as frustrated with management as we are. They are type A's and want to win but not magicians. Has management done much to get either excited to start the next season the past few years?

If I were 71 I would really consider moving somewhere else. He will be 28 to start the next season, time is a wasting. He got Comeau this year after playing great with Neal and JJ. They let both go and gave him Comeau.....

And dont give me Malkin says he loves Pitt crap...No player ever says they hate the city they play for, even in EDM or Green Bay.

We don't agree on much, but the dude is an idiot if he thinks Yandle is on par or better than a healthy Letang. I know that is infrequent, but Letang blows Yandle away.
- Oneonta Penguin

In terms of pure offense, Letang, Karlsson, Subban, and as of this season Shattenkirk are in a class of their own.

Guys like Yandle, Hedman, OEL, etc. are the next best thing but they're a tier below.

At some point you have to wonder if 87 and 71 are as frustrated with management as we are. They are type A's and want to win but not magicians. Has management done much to get either excited to start the next season the past few years?

If I were 71 I would really consider moving somewhere else. He will be 28 to start the next season, time is a wasting. He got Comeau this year after playing great with Neal and JJ. They let both go and gave him Comeau.....

And dont give me Malkin says he loves Pitt crap...No player ever says they hate the city they play for, even in EDM or Green Bay.
- sammy87

What about cities they played for?

@HalfordPHT: “I started drinking during the day. I would smoke cigarettes. I would smoke other drugs. I had nothing else to do.” -- Ribeiro on time in AZ

That's what happens when you have a guy like Burkle who just looks at the $ and doesn't see it as a sport. You cant run a hockey team like a fortune 500 company.
- thickman1178

Where exactly is Burkle skimping on spending exactly, that he should be spending more?

You are right. Any team can make a list like that of players they passed up on the draft. But problem is a lot of those guys were the top ranked player left and the Pens passed them over, not like a suprise player 5 years later. I superficially remember watching the morrow draft on TSN and Bob Mckenzie saying Pittsburgh would take SAAD, best play available and was a Pittsburgh native, it was a sure thing... Nope, morrow. Same with the Poliout pick... We NEEDED offensive depth already at this point... Forsberg was ranked 4th or 5th I think... He feel to us, and we still took a D MAN!!! and finally the Staal draft... We already had Malkin and Crosby and at the time Toews was listed as a winger and was ranked above Staal.... Yet we went for Staal purely based on size..... Ah well, atleast we got 1 cup out of it all.
- Willaged

Even if Pgh drafted some of these guys there is/was no guarantee that their trajectory would have produced the same results. Some could have faltered, while others flourished even more. Given that the depth issue is topic du-jour, I thought it would be worth the s^&8ts and giggles to highlight Shero ineptitude. Going back a few years (> 2011), I’d easily swap Saad, Kucherov, and Forsberg (and anyone ahead of #19). Even worse about picking #51 ahead of Forsberg is that Pgh selected #3 at 22nd. Stock-pile of marginal utility. I know its completely moot, BUT the absolute insanity of the matter is that these guys are currently HELPING their respective clubs. The case for #51 has yet to be determined, but as for anyone else on the Pgh list…..yeah...

What about cities they played for?

@HalfordPHT: “I started drinking during the day. I would smoke cigarettes. I would smoke other drugs. I had nothing else to do.” -- Ribeiro on time in AZ
- rangerdanger94

LOL, but once they leave who cares.

Even if Pgh drafted some of these guys there is/was no guarantee that their trajectory would have produced the same results. Some could have faltered, while others flourished even more. Given that the depth issue is topic du-jour, I thought it would be worth the s^&8ts and giggles to highlight Shero ineptitude. Going back a few years (> 2011), I’d easily swap Saad, Kucherov, and Forsberg (and anyone ahead of #19). Even worse about picking #51 ahead of Forsberg is that Pgh selected #3 at 22nd. Stock-pile of marginal utility. I know its completely moot, BUT the absolute insanity of the matter is that these guys are currently HELPING their respective clubs. The case for #51 has yet to be determined, but as for anyone else on the Pgh list…..yeah...
- out_of_market

Could be worse...you could've drafted Forsberg and then trade him for Erat.

In terms of pure offense, Letang, Karlsson, Subban, and as of this season Shattenkirk are in a class of their own.

Guys like Yandle, Hedman, OEL, etc. are the next best thing but they're a tier below.
- rangerdanger94

I wouldn't even argue with the offensive output. Yandle might very well be Letang's equivalent offensively, but he isn't nearly as sound defensively as Letang and these other dmen are. Those guys play and produce against the top opponents, Yandle gets sheltered. It's a joke to say, "Yandle (at times) is just as talented as Letang" for that reason alone.

At some point you have to wonder if 87 and 71 are as frustrated with management as we are. They are type A's and want to win but not magicians. Has management done much to get either excited to start the next season the past few years?

If I were 71 I would really consider moving somewhere else. He will be 28 to start the next season, time is a wasting. He got Comeau this year after playing great with Neal and JJ. They let both go and gave him Comeau.....

And dont give me Malkin says he loves Pitt crap...No player ever says they hate the city they play for, even in EDM or Green Bay.
- sammy87

I would bet management is just as frustrated with 87 and 71 are as they are of management.

Why does everyone on this board, the media, etc.. keep giving those 2 free passes and making excuse after excuse for them?

They have failed to produce in the last 3 season ending series. That's a pattern.

At some point you have to wonder if 87 and 71 are as frustrated with management as we are. They are type A's and want to win but not magicians. Has management done much to get either excited to start the next season the past few years?

If I were 71 I would really consider moving somewhere else. He will be 28 to start the next season, time is a wasting. He got Comeau this year after playing great with Neal and JJ. They let both go and gave him Comeau.....

And dont give me Malkin says he loves Pitt crap...No player ever says they hate the city they play for, even in EDM or Green Bay.
- sammy87

Actually Hornqivist was meant for Malkin...but then Dupuis went down. Most people can't remember back to how effective of a line Kuni- Cros-Dups was because most people are too caught up in right now and dont see bigger picture. It was arguably the best forward line in the league the last two seasons (before Dupuis was injured last season) and picked up where it left off this season before Dupuis was diagnosed with the clots.

I wouldn't even argue with the offensive output. Yandle might very well be Letang's equivalent offensively, but he isn't nearly as sound defensively as Letang and these other dmen are. Those guys play and produce against the top opponents, Yandle gets sheltered. It's a joke to say, "Yandle (at times) is just as talented as Letang" for that reason alone.
- jfkst1

Letang is pretty good defensively but let's not act like he's a Lidstrom or a Suter or a Girardi in his own end.

Letang is pretty good defensively but let's not act like he's a Lidstrom or a Suter or a Girardi in his own end.
- rangerdanger94

Ignoring your obvious ignorance on data, Yandle is a liability defensively akin to a bottom pairing dman.

Ignoring your obvious ignorance on data, Yandle is a liability defensively akin to a bottom pairing dman.
- jfkst1

Always with the hyperbole with you

Always with the hyperbole with you
- rangerdanger94

I'm not even a Letang guy but I'd have to admit he's better than Yandle. And its not really close.

I'm not even a Letang guy but I'd have to admit he's better than Yandle. And its not really close.
- 87_71_11_29

That might be true, but it's also true that Letang plays for the Penguins about as much Sasquatch or the Lochness monster.

I'm not even a Letang guy but I'd have to admit he's better than Yandle. And its not really close.
- 87_71_11_29

Yes but Yandle is a bottom pairing defenseman? Give me a break.

Actually Hornqivist was meant for Malkin...but then Dupuis went down. Most people can't remember back to how effective of a line Kuni- Cros-Dups was because most people are too caught up in right now and dont see bigger picture. It was arguably the best forward line in the league the last two seasons (before Dupuis was injured last season) and picked up where it left off this season before Dupuis was diagnosed with the clots.
- MattStrat

Not quite. Kunitz-Sid-Horn started the season together. Dupuis spent most of his time this season on Malkin's right. Remember, Geno was coming back from a slight injury so the lines were

Kunitz-Crosby-Hornqvist
Malkin-Sutter-Dupuis

Then when Malkin got back to full strength it went

Kunitz-Crosby-Hornqvist
Comeau-Malkin-Dupuis

Always with the hyperbole with you
- rangerdanger94

Says the guy comparing Girardi to Lidstrom. And I didn't say he is a bottom pairing dman. However, he does need to be sheltered like one. Which is the inherent problem in comparing Yandle's talent to Letang's.

Not quite. Kunitz-Sid-Horn started the season together. Dupuis spent most of his time this season on Malkin's right. Remember, Geno was coming back from a slight injury so the lines were

Kunitz-Crosby-Hornqvist
Malkin-Sutter-Dupuis

Then when Malkin got back to full strength it went

Kunitz-Crosby-Hornqvist
Comeau-Malkin-Dupuis
- Victoro311

Right you are. Dupuis was still used at times with Sid and Kuni and I think he would of slid in and out of top line RW duties all year had he stayed healthy. I still stand by my initial comment though, Horny was initially meant to play with Malkin when acquired.

What about cities they played for?

@HalfordPHT: “I started drinking during the day. I would smoke cigarettes. I would smoke other drugs. I had nothing else to do.” -- Ribeiro on time in AZ
- rangerdanger94

Ribeiro must be a head case, there are many things to do in the Phoenix area. Great weather, night life, golf, concerts, tubing, sports, hiking (watch for rattlesnakes). Then on your off days, you add in the Grand Canyon, the Painted desert, Tombstone, the airplane graveyard in Tucson. I do not understand where he gets off saying he had nothing to do.

Says the guy comparing Girardi to Lidstrom. And I didn't say he is a bottom pairing dman. However, he does need to be sheltered like one. Which is the inherent problem in comparing Yandle's talent to Letang's.
- jfkst1

He was being real sheltered when he took Crosby out of the play and then sprung Hagelin on a breakaway. He isn't sheltered as much as he's just our 3rd best left handed defenseman behind McDonagh and Staal.

At some point you have to wonder if 87 and 71 are as frustrated with management as we are. They are type A's and want to win but not magicians. Has management done much to get either excited to start the next season the past few years?

If I were 71 I would really consider moving somewhere else. He will be 28 to start the next season, time is a wasting. He got Comeau this year after playing great with Neal and JJ. They let both go and gave him Comeau.....

And dont give me Malkin says he loves Pitt crap...No player ever says they hate the city they play for, even in EDM or Green Bay.
- sammy87

Well lets hope our players are much more patient than you. Hopefully they understand the reality of salary cap eras and the struggles of filling out a full roster.

At the end of the year, even if you have the best wingers, and you still don't win a cup, what does it really matter? Only one team gets to hoist it. And if every player who doesn't win the cup after 6 years gets upset over it, then you wouldn't see very many teams ever retain a core of players.

He was being real sheltered when he took Crosby out of the play and then sprung Hagelin on a breakaway. He isn't sheltered as much as he's just our 3rd best left handed defenseman behind McDonagh and Staal.
- rangerdanger94

I would expect anecdotal evidence from you. He's been taking a huge relative percentage of Ozone faceoffs (+43.35%). By far the highest on the Rags blue line. Why do you think that is? Probably because AV wisely knows he has to protect him from defensive duties.