Never been ice fishing but I do duck hunt and my guess is that it's the social aspect of it that is the draw. Sit around and drink beer without the WAG's nagging. Fish are a bonus.
- eichiefs9

Do you duck hunt like a man, with stones and weapons you have fashioned yourself? Or do you buy a high-powered gun and fire small bullets as a duck goes off to find a snack to feed itself?

I think the Winnik deal should be #1. He already moved a 1st, Winnik is not worth a 2nd. Kinda hard to build depth now.
- sammy87

The Winnik deal didn't bother me as much...but its reflective of the larger problem of continuing to trade picks. Here's the way I look at it:

-If you don't sign Erhoff and can sign a winger who essentially does what they got Perron to do, they wouldn't have had to trade the first round pick in this draft to get Perron.

The Winnik deal didn't bother me as much...but its reflective of the larger problem of continuing to trade picks. Here's the way I look at it:

-If you don't sign Erhoff and can sign a winger who essentially does what they got Perron to do, they wouldn't have had to trade the first round pick in this draft to get Perron.
- Emperor Filonius

Which UFA was available to provide what Perron (theoretically) can do for $4M or less?

I think the Winnik deal should be #1. He already moved a 1st, Winnik is not worth a 2nd. Kinda hard to build depth now.
- sammy87

It depends. If Winnik is resigned in the offseason, the deal doesn't look as bad. You gave up a second round pick and a fourth for a competent third line winger that serves a purpose. If Winnik leaves, then yes ... its a terrible move.

Yet everyone called me an idiot for saying this 12 months ago.... I was lead to believe one didn't know a thing about hockey for even contemplating moving a 30+ goal scorer with a $5 mill cap hit.

I've watched every second of the Preds/Hawks. Neal will always be a regular season goal scorer. His game is 100% incompatible with playoff hockey however. Too much perimeter activity and not enough going to the dirty areas. Unfortunately, Nashville is finding that out oh..right about....NOW.

Moving that d-bag and getting Horny back is an all-time deal IMO. Horny has had an impactful playoff for the Pens.

Out top 3 players this series:

1. MAF
2. Laps
3. Horny
- 87_71_11_29

Seriously? Yeah Lappy had one game where he agitated the hell out of the Rags, but what did he do last night. Sid has actually scored goals and he isnt on your list?

If they plan on using an internal replacement I'd predict very likely Johnston returns. If they look for external candidates, probably much lower. Of course, they could still approach the vacancy with GMs who only want Johnston as the HC as well. It would probably limit the candidates, but I'm sure there are some that would endorse him as well.
- jfkst1

I think they go full court press for Babcock. I really do. Rumor has it he wants some control of personnel.

That being said, I'll say it's not really fair to HCMJ. He's not perfect, but few coaches ever are in their first seasons.

The Winnik deal didn't bother me as much...but its reflective of the larger problem of continuing to trade picks. Here's the way I look at it:

-If you don't sign Erhoff and can sign a winger who essentially does what they got Perron to do, they wouldn't have had to trade the first round pick in this draft to get Perron.
- Emperor Filonius

If they didn't sign Ehrhoff the defense would have been markedly worse. Getting a capable 2nd pairing vet dman for $4m/yr on a 1 year contract is a solid deal. If he didn't get injured, something completely out of Rutherford's control, it was a good deal. Who else was going to play there? Rutherford would have been criticized if he didn't get someone for the 2nd pairing after losing Niskanen.

Reasons Rutherford should be fired:
1. Leaving the team in a situation where they had to play with 5 defensemen for essentially the last 3 weeks of the season is utter negligence in terms of cap management. This didn't just accidentally happen. It was a direct result of the 2 unnecessary trades for defensemen we didn't need.
2. Trading Despres and only getting Ben Lovejoy in return. Traded a 1st round pick who was finally coming into his own and having a breakout season for a guy who basically is a 6th defenseman. He was leading the Pens in hits at the time and was good at moving the puck and setting up transition. Lovejoy doesn't do any of those things as well, plus he is older, and costs the team $300K more per year.
3. He then doubled down by trading Bortuzzo for Cole, again costing the team another $300K under the cap, which totally hamstrung them when Letang and Erhoff got hurt. I don't has as much issue with the Cole trade as the Lovejoy one, but by making these 2 completely unnecessary trades, he downgraded the defense and left them bereft of any physical presence on the blue line. He did this at a point in the season when they had just won 4 in a row and were gaining momentum and IMHO, these trades completely wrecked that.
4. Signing Erhoff was a luxury they could not afford when the team was and remains in desperate need to top 6 wingers. That $4 million spent of him could have gone towards a guy who could have potted 25 goals along Genos wing. Plus, they could have given more playing time in the regular season to the young Dmen and had them playoff ready by now.

Rutherford was not dealing from a strong hand in terms of what Shero left, but I think a strong argument can be made that Rutherford made things worse and that he should not be trusted to retool the team any further.
- Emperor Filonius

I felt Ehrhoff was a great signing. No long term deal ... reasonable cap hit and quite frankly, was a need. You had just lost Niskanen. People had this grand vision that Beau Bennett was a solution as a top six winger; Dupes wasn't suffering from clots; Kunitz wasn't struggling ... you had options. Bennett sucked ass; Dupes gets hurt and Kunitz looks like he is 42 now.

The think that makes the Ehrhoff deal awful is he hasn't been healthy. That's it.

Seriously? Yeah Lappy had one game where he agitated the hell out of the Rags, but what did he do last night. Sid has actually scored goals and he isnt on your list?
- thickman1178

Crosby had 2 goals, but one of them was a tap-in from Hornqvist's work (still, good players know where to go). Lapierre has been agitating the poop out of the Rangers and is actually playing some fairly good 2-way hockey. When Crosby hasn't scored, he's been essentially a non-factor.

I think they go full court press for Babcock. I really do. Rumor has it that he wants some control of personnel.

That being said, I'll say it's not really fair to HCMJ. He's not perfect, but few coaches ever are in their first seasons.
- madmike71

It wouldn't surprise me at all. He's said nothing but good things about Malkin and especially Crosby as well. Maybe the stars are aligning and if he wants personnel control, which he'll never get with Holland in Detroit, Pittsburgh will certainly be one of the top contenders for his services. I agree entirely that it is a brutally unfair predicament for Johnston to be put into.

Which UFA was available to provide what Perron (theoretically) can do for $4M or less?
- jmatchett383

Cammalleri. I've always thought he would have been a good fit. Or Moulson. Both were 5mil though. Mason Raymond or Milan Michalek also.

I did like the Hoff signing though.

While he has made some bad decisions (Despres for Lovejoy), GMJR was saddled with some tough circumstances left behind by our last GM. No cap room, few assets to deal ... in need of a top six forward and so on. His cheap additions (Comeau and Downie) worked out as much as one could ever believed.

I think the players JR has acquired did serve a purpose, unlike Shero's MO.

They need structure, balance and an influx of young talent as well as a rebuilding of the way business is done (not trading away valuable picks for rentals).
- Oneonta Penguin

Most frustrating way to look at it IMO is there are probably 200 other NHL Dmen that would be capable of playing top pair minutes in the playoffs. And several of those teams would've accepted a trade for a young prospect. And would've fit GMJR's intentions of gaining "experience". We got Lovejoy.

Most frustrating way to look at it IMO is there are probably 200 other NHL Dmen that would be capable of playing top pair minutes in the playoffs. And several of those teams would've accepted a trade for a young prospect. And would've fit GMJR's intentions of gaining "experience". We got Lovejoy.
- stowerkraut

Lovejoy's low salary was a significant reason.....actually the most important reason he was a trade target. The thought of this deal still makes me want to puke.

Cammalleri. I've always thought he would have been a good fit. Or Moulson. Both were 5mil though. Mason Raymond or Milan Michalek also.

I did like the Hoff signing though.
- znagle

Yeah, but both Cammalleri and Moulson signed 5-year deals as well. Raymond was on a 3-year deal after a resurgent year and I believe Michalek was resigned prior to UFA. I should have also noted that Ehrhoff was on a 1-year deal so they weren't locked into him.

Crosby had 2 goals, but one of them was a tap-in from Hornqvist's work (still, good players know where to go). Lapierre has been agitating the poop out of the Rangers and is actually playing some fairly good 2-way hockey. When Crosby hasn't scored, he's been essentially a non-factor.
- jmatchett383

Until Lappy actually scores a goal, he hasnt done anything. Agitating people...that sure wins games.

Goading them into penalties, maybe? Nope, they have us doubled up on that too.

We can talk all we want about all the grit these guys have, but unless it translates to goals, it does us 0 good.

I will add that at least Lappy has been better than the majority of our forwards, but unfortunately, that really isnt saying much.

Do you duck hunt like a man, with stones and weapons you have fashioned yourself? Or do you buy a high-powered gun and fire small bullets as a duck goes off to find a snack to feed itself?
- jmatchett383

Or with a big orange gun attached to a cord?

I know he takes shots at the dog too.

Most frustrating way to look at it IMO is there are probably 200 other NHL Dmen that would be capable of playing top pair minutes in the playoffs. And several of those teams would've accepted a trade for a young prospect. And would've fit GMJR's intentions of gaining "experience". We got Lovejoy.
- stowerkraut

That's basically every other NHL dman (and some AHL dmen).

Until Lappy actually scores a goal, he hasnt done anything. Agitating people...that sure wins games.

Goading them into penalties, maybe? Nope, they have us doubled up on that too.

We can talk all we want about all the grit these guys have, but unless it translates to goals, it does us 0 good.

I will add that at least Lappy has been better than the majority of our forwards, but unfortunately, that really isnt saying much.
- thickman1178

So you would argue that Blake Comeau has been better than Maxim Lapierre because he scored a goal? Even though Lapierre drew the coverage away from Comeau which allowed him to swoop in and slam the puck home? There's more to the game that just scoring goals.

Most frustrating way to look at it IMO is there are probably 200 other NHL Dmen that would be capable of playing top pair minutes in the playoffs. And several of those teams would've accepted a trade for a young prospect. And would've fit GMJR's intentions of gaining "experience". We got Lovejoy.
- stowerkraut

I would love to have a beer with JR and find out what triggered that fart of a move. I screamed with the Borts deal too, but now that I see Cole more, I'm fine with it. He had some tough circumstances coming in, but I'm still trying to figure out why he was handed the keys to this organization, for even a short term, after seeing some of his moves. Signing Alexander Semin to that control and trading away those assets for a guy you were going to get a year from now and you didn't have to give up any assets (Staal).

Lovejoy's low salary was a significant reason.....actually the most important reason he was a trade target. The thought of this deal still makes me want to puke.
- madmike71

True. Still a complete head scratcher. We knew it'd be a loss long term but 1 month???

Yeah, but both Cammalleri and Moulson signed 5-year deals as well. Raymond was on a 3-year deal after a resurgent year and I believe Michalek was resigned prior to UFA. I should have also noted that Ehrhoff was on a 1-year deal so they weren't locked into him.
- jmatchett383

Yeah Cam's deal last too long for his age.. I would have done 3 years max, but it would cost a little more. Moulson I would have done for 4 years. I don't remmeber on Michalek but I do think you're right. Other than that, I would have taken the stab at Raymond. Like I said I had no problem with Hoff, he was supposed to be a stop gap while our D prospects develop.

Until Lappy actually scores a goal, he hasnt done anything. Agitating people...that sure wins games.

Goading them into penalties, maybe? Nope, they have us doubled up on that too.

We can talk all we want about all the grit these guys have, but unless it translates to goals, it does us 0 good.

I will add that at least Lappy has been better than the majority of our forwards, but unfortunately, that really isnt saying much.
- thickman1178

Happy deal looks great. Who would you rather have now, Lappy, who you can actually see what he is doing to help, or the invisible Marcel Goc?

That's basically every other NHL dman (and some AHL dmen).
- jfkst1

My numbers may be a little off. I'm no mathematician.

That's basically every other NHL dman (and some AHL dmen).
- jfkst1

Hey, if he wanted to trade Despres for Andrew MacDonald, I wouldn't say no.

Happy deal looks great. Who would you rather have now, Lappy, who you can actually see what he is doing to help, or the invisible Marcel Goc?
- Oneonta Penguin

I've watched STL's playoff games, Goc looked like he still had superpowers. He literally can vanish into thin air once he steps on the ice. It's remarkable.