And to think we had Arcobello and Goc on our roster. Instead we traded for an inefective Lapierre and also kept Adams.
- Barnaby36

Those are the type of decisions that make me distrust Rutherford. Why should I think he could make good enough decisions to build a contender if he is missing on obvious ones like that?

When you have a deep prospect pool, you have 1 or 2 players every year to rotate in on ELCs to provide value. Whether it's year 1 of their deal or year 3 after some seasoning in the AHL, you get quality production at a discount. And again, you have the leverage to give them a below market deal when they become RFAs. Like Stepan signed a deal for 3M after a 44 point season during the lockout. Now we have a 3M center on the books.

Brassard is a 60 point center signed for 5M a year.

Kreider is almost a 50 point top 6 winger signed for 2.5M or something. McDonagh is an elite defenseman signed for 4.7M. All these guys provide more value than their cap hits all because we signed them as RFAs.
- rangerdanger94

Well now you're talking about leverage in production after their ELCs due to RFA status.

And I think every team in the league is ridiculously jealous of that McDonagh deal (and the trade that got him). How you flipped Gomez for Higgins and him is absurd.

That would be a great 4th line, hte problem is 2 of those guys are in teh top 6.
- sammy87

And this is why we need to purge ourselves of bad contracts to allow value signings to fill out our roster holes. If you turn Sutter into three players, Spaling into two players, and Scuderi into another 3, you have a lot of options. Scuderi is a lost cause, but we can easily dump Sutter and Spaling.

Those are the type of decisions that make me distrust Rutherford. Why should I think he could make good enough decisions to build a contender if he is missing on obvious ones like that?
- jfkst1

They thought the problem was toughness and that we had enough skill on our team. Guess what? Kunitz lost his hands and Comeau his scoring touch.

Not to mention a waste Perron has been. He has a lot of work to do. Work a little more on his shot and body positioning.

And this is why we need to purge ourselves of bad contracts to allow value signings to fill out our roster holes. If you turn Sutter into three players, Spaling into two players, and Scuderi into another 3, you have a lot of options. Scuderi is a lost cause, but we can easily dump Sutter and Spaling.
- Victoro311

You also have contract limits. But yes, that is the idea.

I would do the STL deal in a heartbeat. STL wouldn't though.
- Oneonta Penguin

Right, which is why we're right back to not trading Malkin ... it's just not feasible to come up with a deal that works for both sides. That's 74 goals coming our way for giving up 47 in Malkin and Sutter. I do fear Tarasenko's next contract though...but boy these lines look good...

Perron-Sid-Hornqvist
Kunitz-Backes-Tarasenko (throw Kapanen in if he's ready)
Dupuis-Berglund-Winnik
Spaling-Sundqvist-Downie

You also have contract limits. But yes, that is the idea.
- jmatchett383

Yeah you don't have to stick to uber bargains since there's only so many contracts you can have. You can pay quality players a little more or leave some cap space so that what happened to us this year never happens again, but like you said, that's the general idea.

Right, which is why we're right back to not trading Malkin ... it's just not feasible to come up with a deal that works for both sides. That's 74 goals coming our way for giving up 47 in Malkin and Sutter. I do fear Tarasenko's next contract though...but boy these lines look good...

Perron-Sid-Hornqvist
Kunitz-Backes-Tarasenko (throw Kapanen in if he's ready)
Dupuis-Berglund-Winnik
Spaling-Sundqvist-Downie
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I know he's a fan favorite, but would you guys look to move Dupuis? Assuming he's fully cleared, that's a lot of $$ to pay a guy who's most likely going to be a checking line winger who chips is some secondary production. Not a gross overpayment, but not exactly a bargain.

whoa, we've heard this argument a million times...I guess this disproves that theory!

Adam Gretz ‏@AGretz 20m20 minutes ago

Every damn team that wins the Stanley Cup has between 45-50% of its allowed cap space committed to 5 players.

Adam Gretz ‏@AGretz 19m19 minutes ago

PIT's top-5 cap hits take up 51% of their cap space.
08 DET: 55%
09 PIT: 49%
10 CHI: 46%
11 BOS: 44%
12 LA: 44%
13 CHI: 51%
14 LA: 49%

I know he's a fan favorite, but would you guys look to move Dupuis? Assuming he's fully cleared, that's a lot of $$ to pay a guy who's most likely going to be a checking line winger who chips is some secondary production. Not a gross overpayment, but not exactly a bargain.
- jmatchett383

I don't think he returns much with the health issues, I think it's sink or swim with him.

whoa, we've heard this argument a million times...I guess this disproves that theory!

Adam Gretz ‏@AGretz 20m20 minutes ago

Every damn team that wins the Stanley Cup has between 45-50% of its allowed cap space committed to 5 players.

Adam Gretz ‏@AGretz 19m19 minutes ago

PIT's top-5 cap hits take up 51% of their cap space.
08 DET: 55%
09 PIT: 49%
10 CHI: 46%
11 BOS: 44%
12 LA: 44%
13 CHI: 51%
14 LA: 49%
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Right...but allocation of the remaining 50-55% is crucial.

Also, how is 51 between 45 and 50? Is that this "new math" I've been hearing about?

I'm seeing a lot of theoretical line ups and so on and how certain players would slot into better roles &c. I direct your attention to the 2013 Penguins, their absurd depth at every position, and their absolute lack of structure and discipline. The absolute lack of structure and discipline remains and the depth is gone.

Making a bunch of lateral personnel moves around the current core will not result in anything more than a deeper version of the current undisciplined and defensively ignorant culture.

Also, give me a break with this toughness bullpoop. JR added 2 rats and put his feet up. How tough is a team who gives up multiple consecutive goals all the time, gives up the slot, and won't compete for the puck on the boards? How tough is a team who can be goaded into a PIM meltdown by the big, bad Detroit Red Wings?

Keep the Sundqvists and the Kapanens away from that environment if you expect them to have good professional careers.

I know he's a fan favorite, but would you guys look to move Dupuis? Assuming he's fully cleared, that's a lot of $$ to pay a guy who's most likely going to be a checking line winger who chips is some secondary production. Not a gross overpayment, but not exactly a bargain.
- jmatchett383

I can't imagine anyone would want him. Two blood clots in a year, I seriously doubt he'll play again unfortunately.

I would like to keep 71 and if possible do this:

Perron-Sid-PH
Frolik-71-Kap
Kuni-UFA-Bergenheim
Spaling-Sund-Winnik

I cant see being savvy ebnough to dump Spaling and Sutter in teh same year.

Maybe get Berglund from STL for Sutter and Harrington?

I know he's a fan favorite, but would you guys look to move Dupuis? Assuming he's fully cleared, that's a lot of $$ to pay a guy who's most likely going to be a checking line winger who chips is some secondary production. Not a gross overpayment, but not exactly a bargain.
- jmatchett383

I'd keep him. Not a bad salary for a 3rd line guy who can easily fit in the top 6 when needed. People are acting like he is going to go on a massive decline and be completely useless next season. It's not like he has a concussion or broke his leg where he can't workout

I'm seeing a lot of theoretical line ups and so on and how certain players would slot into better roles &c. I direct your attention to the 2013 Penguins, their absurd depth at every position, and their absolute lack of structure and discipline. The absolute lack of structure and discipline remains and the depth is gone.

Making a bunch of lateral personnel moves around the current core will not result in anything more than a deeper version of the current undisciplined and defensively ignorant culture.

Also, give me a break with this toughness bullpoop. JR added 2 rats and put his feet up. How tough is a team who gives up multiple consecutive goals all the time, gives up the slot, and won't compete for the puck on the boards? How tough is a team who can be goaded into a PIM meltdown by the big, bad Detroit Red Wings?

Keep the Sundqvists and the Kapanens away from that environment if you expect them to have good professional careers.
- Johnny Wrath

The 2013 team was very average defensively. Also, much of the forward depth was wasted with Bylsma's awful lineup decisions.

I would like to keep 71 and if possible do this:

Perron-Sid-PH
Frolik-71-Kap
Kuni-UFA-Bergenheim
Spaling-Sund-Winnik

I cant see being savvy ebnough to dump Spaling and Sutter in teh same year.

Maybe get Berglund from STL for Sutter and Harrington?
- sammy87

I think Frolik and berg are very realistic. Give sundqvist good line mates and he will be able to hold his own on the 3rd line

What would my official plan be moving forward:

1. Try and move 2 of the 3 Scuds, Kunitz, Duper contracts. I think at minimum, you could convince a desperate team who fails to land their fish in UFA land to give up a mid to late pick for Kunitz.

2. Move Spaling and Sutter for draft picks. Try and get a pick by moving Martin's rights. Hell, even a 5th would be nice.

3. Keep the core of 87, 71, 72, 29, 58.

4. Flip one of Dumo or Harrington for a young forward. If you cant, you gotta play ALL the young D next year.

5. Basically sacrifice next season and come to the realization you aint winning a Cup. Reoup draft picks. Reload and restock. Try and position last 3 years or so of 71/87 primes for Cup runs. Stop the win-at-all-costs. Refocus on scouting and player development.

6. Bring in an entirely new training staff including team doctors that will address the health issues.

7. Wave goodbye to Sutter, Spaling, Downie, Lap, Martin, Hoff, Greiss, Adams. Resign Winnik and Comeau if the price is right.

Think Chicago in 2010/2011. They did a mini-reset and it positioned them for a 5 year run. I want the same thing.

I'd keep him. Not a bad salary for a 3rd line guy who can easily fit in the top 6 when needed. People are acting like he is going to go on a massive decline and be completely useless next season. It's not like he has a concussion or broke his leg where he can't workout
- drummer829

I'm basing it on missing almost a full year (and playing less than 1/2 a season last year) and being 36. Not that I think he'll be awful, but finding a younger, cheaper bottom-6 wing would be nice.

I'd keep him. Not a bad salary for a 3rd line guy who can easily fit in the top 6 when needed. People are acting like he is going to go on a massive decline and be completely useless next season. It's not like he has a concussion or broke his leg where he can't workout
- drummer829

Probably because that is what everyone is witnessing with Kunitz this year.

I know he's a fan favorite, but would you guys look to move Dupuis? Assuming he's fully cleared, that's a lot of $$ to pay a guy who's most likely going to be a checking line winger who chips is some secondary production. Not a gross overpayment, but not exactly a bargain.
- jmatchett383

Questionable. He's not a gross overpayment like you said and he'd be a very strong third line winger who can chip in offensively as well as PK. He's also an integral part of the locker room and has proven capable of playing in the top 6 when injuries hit. I know I sound like I'm throwing out a double standard, but all things considered I think he justifies his 3.75 cap hit, where as Sutter is a standard PKer, provides streaky offensive contribution, kills possession, and has proven incompetent in a second line role.

I'd keep him. Not a bad salary for a 3rd line guy who can easily fit in the top 6 when needed. People are acting like he is going to go on a massive decline and be completely useless next season. It's not like he has a concussion or broke his leg where he can't workout
- drummer829

He won't be any better than Spaling and we're always saying how overpriced Spaling is. Why should there be a spot on the team for a more expensive Spaling?

What would my official plan be moving forward:

1. Try and move 2 of the 3 Scuds, Kunitz, Duper contracts. I think at minimum, you could convince a desperate team who fails to land their fish in UFA land to give up a mid to late pick for Kunitz.

2. Move Spaling and Sutter for draft picks. Try and get a pick by moving Martin's rights. Hell, even a 5th would be nice.

3. Keep the core of 87, 71, 72, 29, 58.

4. Flip one of Dumo or Harrington for a young forward. If you cant, you gotta play ALL the young D next year.

5. Basically sacrifice next season and come to the realization you aint winning a Cup. Reoup draft picks. Reload and restock. Try and position last 3 years or so of 71/87 primes for Cup runs. Stop the win-at-all-costs. Refocus on scouting and player development.

6. Bring in an entirely new training staff including team doctors that will address the health issues.

7. Wave goodbye to Sutter, Spaling, Downie, Lap, Martin, Hoff, Greiss, Adams. Resign Winnik and Comeau if the price is right.

Think Chicago in 2010/2011. They did a mini-reset and it positioned them for a 5 year run. I want the same thing.
- 87_71_11_29

They 2 seem counter-intuitive. That core isn't getting any younger, and if you keep them, barring massive injuries to multiple players (not unlikely), you're still going to be a playoff team because they have too much talent to be a bottom-feeder. So you're still picking in the back-end of the first round.

He won't be any better than Spaling and we're always saying how overpriced Spaling is. Why should there be a spot on the team for a more expensive Spaling?
- Johnny Wrath

Well I just don't agree with that assessment. Hopefully you're wrong and I'm right. I guess time will tell.

Everybody that agrees with me at some point says something similar to that
- rangerdanger94

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.